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-   -   A new drivetrain Idea? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48654)

Cody Carey 17-08-2006 23:46

A new drivetrain Idea?
 


OK here it is: it is a regular four or six wheel drive, except that each side of the drive train (the blue parts) would splay out to allow driving in arcs. Depending on what angle you expanded them to, you would drive in a larger or smaller arc; If you expanded them to 45*angle, you would travel in a mid-sized arc, and if you expanded them to an 87* angle, you would travel in a very large arc.
There would be a platform suspended on casters between the sets of wheels (the red part) for mounting any mechanisms that you needed to.
The top "diagram" would be fully closed, which would allow you to drive normally; and the bottom one would be fully open, which would allow you to drive sideways.

Am I missing anything that would make this not work?

P.S. I apologize for using paint, It's all I have at the moment. :)

Arefin Bari 17-08-2006 23:56

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cody C
Am I missing anything that would make this not work?

Wouldn't the casters drag on the floor/carpet while you are moving sideways?

Oh yea and how are you going to program that thing to go sideways? when hinges are closed it can go forward and backward but when you open the hinges and wheels are 180 degrees, wouldn't each side try to fight against each other?

Tytus Gerrish 18-08-2006 00:00

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Hmm very interesting. very cool idea. i am inspired yet faced with a complex and perhaps frivolous challenge without much rewards as far as a competitive drive train None the less. as such i post the question in what situation fanciful, practical or otherwise do you see this machine being an advantage? once you have come up with an answer that satisfies your curiosity and overcomes any laziness you may or may not have incurred through your youth to design such things. bring your design to life through a drawing, a model, an animation , a cad drawing, whatever and then use that to assess and further your creativity. I relay like this idea and i think its relay cool. i have some ideas of variations that could be made to make it simpler and more controllable but and I'm shure you will come up with some too. Please let me see this as a beginning of a new robot designer. they're aren't many people that can come up with and fabricate unique ideas and innovations like that.

Cody Carey 18-08-2006 00:04

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tytus Gerrish
Hmm very interesting. very cool idea. i am inspired yet faced with a complex and perhaps frivolous challenge without much rewards as far as a competitive drive train None the less. as such i post the question in what situation fanciful, practical or otherwise do you see this machine being an advantage? once you have come up with an answer that satisfies your curiosity and overcomes any laziness you may or may not have incurred through your youth to design such things. bring your design to life through a drawing, a model, an animation , a cad drawing, whatever and then use that to assess and further your creativity. I relay like this idea and i think its relay cool. i have some ideas of variations that could be made to make it simpler and more controllable but and I'm shure you will come up with some too. Please let me see this as a beginning of a new robot designer. they're aren't many people that can come up with and fabricate unique ideas and innovations like that.


One thing that I thought it would be useful for was driving around a centralized location.

Take the 2006 game for example. If you had a robot that could drive in arcs and keep itself aimed at the goal based on how large the arcs were, that would be quite an advantage.

Kevin Sevcik 18-08-2006 00:09

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
I'm having trouble convincing myself this would work. Specifically, the omnis are blowing my mind at this point. I know the theory behind them is always that they sideslip to make turning super easy, but they also end up getting pushed side to side. The one arrangement I can sort of envision is when your hinges are at 45 deg and the sides are now perpendicular to each other. If just one side moves, the opposite side will side-slip and it'd end up going that direction. So I'm skeptical it'd do exactly what you think it will in that arrangement, and thus I'm not entirely certain about any other arrangement.

It's still an interesting design, though.

Cody Carey 18-08-2006 00:13

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arefin Bari
Wouldn't the casters drag on the floor/carpet while you are moving sideways?

Oh yea and how are you going to program that thing to go sideways? when hinges are closed it can go forward and backward but when you open the hinges and wheels are 180 degrees, wouldn't each side try to fight against each other?

I don't believe that the casters would cause a noticeable amount of friction.

Now, for programming it to go sideways, you could just program it with tank drive and make the x-axis on the joysticks move the robot side to side when it is open.

Cody Carey 18-08-2006 00:16

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik
I'm having trouble convincing myself this would work. Specifically, the omnis are blowing my mind at this point. I know the theory behind them is always that they sideslip to make turning super easy, but they also end up getting pushed side to side. The one arrangement I can sort of envision is when your hinges are at 45 deg and the sides are now perpendicular to each other. If just one side moves, the opposite side will side-slip and it'd end up going that direction. So I'm skeptical it'd do exactly what you think it will in that arrangement, and thus I'm not entirely certain about any other arrangement.

It's still an interesting design, though.

Hmm...The omnis were originally just so that you could open and close the sides without an extremely strong motor. If you replaced them with grippy wheels, it would just take a lot more power to pull the wheels sideways when opening or closing the wheel-base.

Arefin Bari 18-08-2006 00:17

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cody C
I don't believe that the casters would cause a noticeable amount of friction.

Now, for programming it to go sideways, you could just program it with tank drive and make the x-axis on the joysticks move the robot side to side when it is open.

Very interesting idea. Keep going. There are many problems you will face while designing this but everything has a solution.

Kevin Sevcik 18-08-2006 00:23

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cody C
Hmm...The omnis were originally just so that you could open and close the sides without an extremely strong motor. If you replaced them with grippy wheels, it would just take a lot more power to pull the wheels sideways when opening or closing the wheel-base.

I was thinking grippies just at the middle or closest to the hinge. It would certainly do exactly what you want with a single grippy on each side.

sanddrag 18-08-2006 01:28

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
I think this is a great idea for any time it is my opponent. I think it will get pushed all over the place by the other robots with tank style drivetrains. But an innovative idea nonetheless. :)

MikeJ675 18-08-2006 03:54

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Just an idea, if you replaiced the omni wheels with mecanums, wouldn't you be able to move back and forth as well as side to side?


Edit-Took the idea and ran with it. I love Rhino 3d




Kevin Sevcik 18-08-2006 05:40

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Mechanums would theoretically give you full range of manueverabilty even with the wings fully swung out, albeit with reduced speed in most directions. I must admit that the code for mixing a joystick signal to appropriate motor signals at any amount of swing out would be a headache I wouldn't look forward to, but you would have just about the coolest drivetrain around if you pulled it off well.

Jeremiah Johnson 18-08-2006 07:54

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
OKay, I see one glaring problem. What's stopping another robot from planting itself next to you and stopping you from opening up your "wings?" I mean, that would be a good defensive strategy against a robot of that nature.

There was a robot, I think it was 930 in 2005 that opened up like this but I'm pretty sure it was for a different reason.

Also, how much do you think this set-up, as you have it now, base only, would weigh? Looks pretty heavy.

But nonetheless it's a very interesting idea. I'd like to see it a bit more.

/Edit: If you used a two-wheel crab drive, wouldn't you just be able to turn the crab and that would open itself up? Turn the wheels to X degree and drive the wheels. This would cut down on some weight I think and just hinge the wings. And then you should be able to move side to side, in an arc, and forward/backward with less weight than the mecanum.

Ben Piecuch 18-08-2006 08:23

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Based on the drawings I've seen in this thread, isn't this type of design going to violate rule <R08>

"...In other words, after the start of the match the robot may expand up to a maximum volume of 60 inches by 60 inches by 60 inches."

Granted, this was a specific rule for 2006, but you have to keep such rules in mind for future designs. And now to comment on the design, I'm not quite sure how this is an advantage or improvement over a crab or mechanum design. It seems much more complex to make a completely hinged system.

BEN

Nuttyman54 18-08-2006 08:49

Re: A new drivetrain Idea?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Piecuch
Based on the drawings I've seen in this thread, isn't this type of design going to violate rule <R08>

"...In other words, after the start of the match the robot may expand up to a maximum volume of 60 inches by 60 inches by 60 inches."

Granted, this was a specific rule for 2006, but you have to keep such rules in mind for future designs. And now to comment on the design, I'm not quite sure how this is an advantage or improvement over a crab or mechanum design. It seems much more complex to make a completely hinged system.

BEN

Only if they used the largest possible starting dimensions. If they chose to start as a 28X28 square they should have enough slop to make this work w/in the 2006 rules.


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