Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

Neither the cane nor the walker, or other such assistive devices have met FDA approval either. It is not that the Segway did not meet FDA tests, it is that LLC chose to not market the Segway to the FDA due to the technologies and the cross marketing it would of caused with the iBot.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

The study neither implies nor suggests anything of the sort. The issue with pedestrians and sidewalks is one of nuisance, not safety. It's quite clear that the only real problem is acceptance by people not familiar with how Segways perform.

That's the problem in the British decision as well, with the additional annoying fact that most of the people making that decision are intentionally remaining ignorant of the subject by refusing to experience it.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

It should be mentioned that some of the sidewalks around here in Quebec where the study was performed are ridiculously narrow - 3 feet across or less. When pedestrians see you barreling down the narrow sidewalk on a Segway, they tend to step off the sidewalk to let you pass, which would surely qualify as a nuisance.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

Isn't that what Alan said ??

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

A pedestrian who understands Segways would instead see you gliding down the sidewalk, occupying no more width than a typical person. The extra nuisance factor is mostly attributable to unfamiliarity.

A three-foot-wide sidewalk is narrow enough that two people walking cannot comfortably pass without one stepping off. Putting one -- or both -- on a Segway doesn't change the situation substantially.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

I think this one one of those issues where people pick a final result and find information to substantiate their argument. For me, my final result is to have people realize that Segway LLC has a long way to go before people are convinced that cities should be redesigned for them. I do like the Segway.

With that being said, Ashley you're half right and half wrong (and me too). We really have no way of knowing why the LLC chose not to seek FDA approval (unless you have insiders ;).) I'm not convinced that the Segway and iBot would be competing products. The Segway is usable by people who for the most part have few health problems. The iBot is meant for anyone who has trouble getting around but can accommodate severely handicapped users. I don't like how the person (from the website you provided) who has no legs rides the Segway with a seat. The Segway has one failure mode- you will hit the ground. The iBot was designed so with more grace (safety) than that.

I think we are getting into semantics when we start questioning the difference between nuisance and unsafe. You could even argue that nuisances become safety hazards. I think the net reaction is negative. The simplest solution would be to widen the sidewalk- problem solved. That's not some time. This is why in my previous post I mentioned the Segway would need to have cities change their infrastructure or face an uncertain future.

I'm sure all of you who own Segways would hop off the sidewalk and let an old lady pass. You're not who these laws are designed for.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

Actually the Segway and iBot control and motor systems are very similar.I have no insider ;) . However, it has been rumored that Dean granted J&J exclusive rights to medical applications of his balancing propulsion technology in return for their support of the iBot development -- this development made much of the same core technology and some of the same components available for the subsequent Segway development.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

I'm not familiar with the details of any "deal" that was made, but it is true that J&J owns the exclusive rights to medical applications of the balancing technology that both the i-bot and Segway share. THAT is why the Segway will never be marketed as a "medical" mobility assistive device. In addition, the increased expense (in all phases of a product's life cycle) required to obtain FDA approval would drive the price of Segways much higher than they already are.

Most state legislatures use the terminology "Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device" (EPAMD) when describing the Segway, and specifically granting the Segway all the rights and responsibilities of a pedestrian. Most also provide for individual municipallities to address local Segway use via local ordinances.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

That has very little to do with Segways themselves, and much to do with the people who are not convinced. It has even more to do with the people who have already decided against the idea without more than a glance and a snap decision.
There's no question about it -- it is a semantic difference. What I did was point out the difference when you interpreted the Canadian report as if they were the same idea.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

Good, they should be off the streets....and sidewalks. They're too big to be riding around and are dangerous to pedestrians. Honestly, they get pretty annoying at events. And they definitely should be kept off the roads. The Brits got something right! I know I'm definitely going against the grain posting it on these boards (posting a message not bowing down to Dean Kamen), but I know I am not alone. Off these boards, a lot of people definitely don't bow down to him. I'm not saying what he's done for the youth and getting them involved in engineering is bad, it's quite a good thing, and I do applaud him for that. It's just I don't see the usefulness of some of this invention. I mean, ya, it's cool, it balances and has 2 wheels. Well...I can balance a bike, a bike has 2 wheels, and the battery doesn't die.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

can you back this statement up with any references? How many pedestrians have been injured by Segway riders?

The control that is designed into the Segway makes it very easy to ride on a sidewalk with pedestrians. You can ride at the same speed as people are walking, without losing any stability (unlike a bike or scooter). If the handlebar bumps someone the Segway is tipped backwards and it stops by itself

and if you run over someones foot its no big deal (unlike a bike with 120psi tires).

Personal accountablity is a part of this. If you fly down a crowded sideway at 12mph someone could get hurt, but the same applies to a person running at 12mph, or someone on a bike. Common sense is required.

I dont see any danger to pedistratrians from responsible use of a Segway on a sidewalk.

You could argue that its should be banned because of the risk from unresponsible users, but I can walk into any department store and take things off the shelf at random, and hurt someone with them if I am reckless and unresponsible in my actions. We dont ban products out of fear of what someone might do with it.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

Mike ... WHO ARE YOU ?? And what gives you the right to pass judgement like this??

The "person who has no legs" on the DRAFT website is Leonard Timm. He and Jerry Kerr (a C-4 quadriplegic) founded the DRAFT organization (Disability Rights Advocates For Technology) in 2004. Leonard lost his legs in a boating accident and has regained much of his lost mobility thru the use of the Segway. You should spend some time on the DRAFT website (and I am certain there are many other resources with similar information) and learn a little about how the Segway is improving the quality of life for so many. Here's a quote from an article posted on their website: I personally know very many segway owners who are handicapped in some way, and in most cases their Segways have restored a level of mobility and dignity that they could not have imagined prior to its introduction.

Of course there are some added risks for a disabled person on a Segway, but there are risks in all aspects of life. This is a decision they have to make for themselves, but I would say the benefits for these people far outweigh the risks.
How do you know that? I am less familiar with the ibot than the Segway, but the Segway has many failure modes, AND MANY safety systems in place to warn and protect the rider. In what ways specifically was the ibot designed with "more grace (safety) than that"?
If "these laws" are not designed for Segway owners then who are they "designed for" ??

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

the IBOT can place four wheels in contact with the ground when it senses something is outside its operational parameters, and it can stop in a stable upright orientation. When its up on two wheels it can drop down on four when it senses it needs to.

The Segway can not do that. There are no training wheels or kickstands on both sides that automatically deploy to keep the Segway upright if its control system fails.

There are modes in which a Segway can become unstable and fall (getting airborne for one). If you cant step off it and land on your feet, you are in danger of injury.

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

Only if the ibot has enough time to react (which I doubt it could if it was also "airborne"). Believe me, I know all too well about potential Segway instability. My experiences with "pushing the envelope" on my "magic carpet" are well documented elsewhere :o :p :ahh: .

500 posts!! I was hoping my 500th would be a bit more substantial ... oh well ...

Re: Segways banned in Britain
 

well yeah, but at least the IBOT has a mode in which it is inheriently stable, the Segway doesnt.

Im sure that someone could rig up a Segway with 'landing gear' that can be deployed by the rider at the push of a button, but the stock Segway is not designed for that type of use.

I dont see any problem with a disabled person using a Segway if they choose to assume the risk. If someone puts their grandmother one on, and she goes head over heals down the escalator in the mall, guess who gets sued? Segway LLC!