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-   -   USB Joystick adapter is here! (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48865)

Not2B 07-09-2006 21:19
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
My guys on our geekTeam did the PS2 controller last year. They got it "working" by using the comp port. However, I used the word "working" because they only got SOME functions working. They couldn't power some functions on the PS2. Still useable, but not perfect.

OK - point of the post - They could have gotten all functions working had they been able to use an external power source. They talked to the IFI guys for a long time about this. We never did use an external power source, of course, because it was against the rules. But it sure would be nice.

Now forget the rules for a second - this is still a GREAT (WICKED GREAT) way to get younger kids and regular people interested in your robot in demos. Hand them a big control board with switches and joy sticks, and they don't get it. Hand them a game controller, and WHAM - they pick it up right away and become interested much quicker. It's amazing how useful it is for demos.

I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Richard Wallace 07-09-2006 21:34
Re: USB Joystick adaptor is here!
 
Thanks for the correction on the connector size.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Copioli
... We are working to find a way to power it off of the O/I. A possibility is powering it from the competition port.
<R79> appears to preclude that option:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006 Manual
<R79> The Competition Cable at the Alliance Station must connect directly to the Competition Port on the Operator Interface. No intermediate connectors, cables, or “pigtails” are permitted.
I had no part in drafting <R79> or any other rule; however, the intent seems clear to me. FIRST wants to ensure that the O/I responds correctly to the competition port. Correct response is critical to safety on the field.

So as I see it the question is, can FIRST ensure safety on the field while allowing externally powered devices connected to the O/I joystick ports? Maybe their answer is no. Or maybe it is yes, but only for pre-approved devices; i.e., not for custom circuits that are presented for inspection at an event, but maybe for circuits that have been pre-approved through some kind of advance review and inspection. Clearly the O/I itself had to be evaluated and approved, so why not another device?

Pat McCarthy 07-09-2006 21:47
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
I don't know if it's any better from a safety/hazard standpoint, but instead of hooking up to a power outlet that FIRST would provide, a team could make a battery powered option that plugs into the device it is powering.
HOT used the 222's plans to make a battery power source to run the whole OI, for public events, using a small rechargeable pack.

Mike Copioli 08-09-2006 00:11
Re: USB Joystick adaptor is here!
 
So as I see it the question is, can FIRST ensure safety on the field while allowing externally powered devices connected to the O/I joystick ports? Maybe their answer is no. Or maybe it is yes[/quote]


The answer, I believe is yes. Of course I'm biased... Actually pulling power from the comp port should not be a saftey issue. The robot's are disabled via the mode bits. I believe, not certain, that the E-stop kills power to the O/I. With these saftey features already in place there is no reason, other than the rules, that pulling power form the comp port, would be unsafe. I agree that custom circuits should not be allowed use external power sources.

Mike Copioli 08-09-2006 00:15
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
Another key point is that no matter how much power is put into the O/I joystick ports, if the O/I is disabled the robot is disabled.

Mike Copioli 08-09-2006 00:20
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat McCarthy
I don't know if it's any better from a safety/hazard standpoint, but instead of hooking up to a power outlet that FIRST would provide, a team could make a battery powered option that plugs into the device it is powering.
HOT used the 222's plans to make a battery power source to run the whole OI, for public events, using a small rechargeable pack.

This was the plan if external power was not available. However I'm sure a lot of matches will go poorly due to dead batteries. I see the battery pack as another failure point therfore I do not think it is the way to go. I can not remember how many times I wanted to scream at the camera because of a dead back-up battery.

Yes I know about the jumper for 12v. We used 12v on the practice bot but not the comp bot.

BTW I am writing this inbetween programming Chicklets...Programmers note the time......LOL

Not2B 08-09-2006 08:40
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat McCarthy
I don't know if it's any better from a safety/hazard standpoint, but instead of hooking up to a power outlet that FIRST would provide, a team could make a battery powered option that plugs into the device it is powering.
HOT used the 222's plans to make a battery power source to run the whole OI, for public events, using a small rechargeable pack.
IFI personel have a battery pack with an adpater that plugs into the OI power plug. That's all you need. We were able to get enough power from the OI when the OI was plugged into a power source. We were very close to the edge of having enough power when the OI was powered off the competition port.

Mike Copioli 08-09-2006 12:30
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not2B
IFI personel have a battery pack with an adpater that plugs into the OI power plug. That's all you need. We were able to get enough power from the OI when the OI was plugged into a power source. We were very close to the edge of having enough power when the OI was powered off the competition port.
Where were you pulling power from? I assume the joyport LED outputs. If that is the case, there is no way the O/I can provide enough power for the Chicklet, and the USB device. 200+mA up to a MAX of 500mA. The LED drivers are current limited to 10mA each. The Chicklet will require more than what the joyport can provide regardless of the source.

Not2B 08-09-2006 16:39
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Copioli
Where were you pulling power from? I assume the joyport LED outputs. If that is the case, there is no way the O/I can provide enough power for the Chicklet, and the USB device. 200+mA up to a MAX of 500mA. The LED drivers are current limited to 10mA each. The Chicklet will require more than what the joyport can provide regardless of the source.
Sorry - I didn't mean the chicklet - I ment the PS2 controller. But what I was getting at is the use of external power for the OI. We couldn't use external power for the OI, let alone power NOT piped through the OI.

But I'll keep my fingers crossed for next year.

mehul 09-09-2006 12:27
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
well dont kow if we can use this..." usb to a 15 pin device" found it in ebay and came up with this eventhough its sold in uk im sure we can get it here in the US

http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-to-15-Pin-Jo...QQcmdZViewItem

they show the specs in the bottom and im sure u guys can figure out how to impiment it to use in the first controller. It also doesnt require any programing so it should work fine and no external power source.

Note* sorry for the bad grammer :) and as u see i was an animator and have no idea what to do with this electronic stuff ;)

yongkimleng 09-09-2006 12:30
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
like WOW the usb chicklet is supposed to be a usb MASTER and read the data off the XY sticks and buttons on ur controller and probably have a few DACs to output the various signals?
but wait, the selection of USB joysticks should be limited right? not all can be used, especially those which have specialised drivers which come with them. Well one interesting thing is that X-Box controllers are supported! :ahh: so... some fun coming up soon i see?
Probably takes some time for this to be approved for FIRST i think :D

Jack Jones 09-09-2006 14:02
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mehul
well dont kow if we can use this..." usb to a 15 pin device" found it in ebay and came up with this eventhough its sold in uk im sure we can get it here in the US

http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-to-15-Pin-Jo...QQcmdZViewItem

they show the specs in the bottom and im sure u guys can figure out how to impiment it to use in the first controller. It also doesnt require any programing so it should work fine and no external power source.

Note* sorry for the bad grammer :) and as u see i was an animator and have no idea what to do with this electronic stuff ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDL Micro
This item is a brand new USB to 15 Pin Joystick Gameport Converter. This gameport adapter allows the connection of a standard joystick to your USB port.
They contradict themselves - or maybe that's the way the Brits see it? I'm sure it goes the wrong direction. Otherwise, it'd need power.

Alan Anderson 09-09-2006 14:40
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mehul
well dont kow if we can use this..." usb to a 15 pin device" found it in ebay and came up with this eventhough its sold in uk im sure we can get it here in the US

http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-to-15-Pin-Jo...QQcmdZViewItem
Sorry, that's backwards for our needs. It's for connecting old-style analog joysticks to a computer having a USB port. What we need for an IFI control system -- and what this thread is discussing -- goes the other way.

Greg Marra 09-09-2006 15:44
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yongkimleng
but wait, the selection of USB joysticks should be limited right? not all can be used, especially those which have specialised drivers which come with them. Well one interesting thing is that X-Box controllers are supported! :ahh:
Actually, thanks to a standard (USB human interface device class) most any controlling device should work with the USB Chicklet. The only problem would be how the chicklet chooses to map all of the possible channels in an HID device to it's limited number of channels, but the standard does exist. "Proprietary drivers" are often required for unusual functions that require an extension of the standard, and those 'extras' wouldn't work with the chicklet.

But have no fear, the selection of usable joysticks won't be extremely limited thanks to standards! Yay standards!

yongkimleng 10-09-2006 02:16
Re: USB Joystick adapter is here!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Marra
Actually, thanks to a standard (USB human interface device class) most any controlling device should work with the USB Chicklet. The only problem would be how the chicklet chooses to map all of the possible channels in an HID device to it's limited number of channels, but the standard does exist. "Proprietary drivers" are often required for unusual functions that require an extension of the standard, and those 'extras' wouldn't work with the chicklet.

But have no fear, the selection of usable joysticks won't be extremely limited thanks to standards! Yay standards!
;) cool thanks for the snipplet of info.. on a sidenote, for those who want to make their own controllers and are having a bad time figuring out how to turn digital signals into an analogue 0-5V without an ADC, they can probably try a PIC18F4550 usb-integrated microcontroller which can be configured to behave as a USB HID device. So going by HID specs, you'll just need to translate whatever sensors you're using and output the necessary variables, letting the USB chicklet do the DAC conversion :D
yes I realise this is going a large round to solve a simple problem, but PIC-inclined programmers may find this easier instead :yikes:


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