Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

It looks like 217 + 148 may make some big rows.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

it's all over. those are your champs.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

The idea seems nice, but is pretty flawed.

The age of a team doesn't necessarily reflect how good they are.

Also, I wish the spread was a little wider than just adjacent numbers. The LA regional won't be that much fun next week if we have to play against 254 and/or 330 in every match.

I bet 1503 and 1680 are liking this system though, they will probably be playing teams they are consistently better than...

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Alliances Please:)

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

THe alliances are on the previous page..

How did 148 pull off number one seed? I thought they ended in second place..

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

There were ranking issues. Apparently 148 went 8-0 with 1444, but had a higher tie breaker. The 9th didn't count and I guess the scoring program missed that.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Yea-- 148 wins, 45 gets second. This one seems clear, eh?

Or I don't know.. 45 may turn up the defense when they get to the finals.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

I have to agree with Joe, Technokats can handle playing defence if they need to.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Can some one explain to me what just happened there? The Score was 0-0 and going to a rubbermatch. Then the score was reversed to 14-0? I have to say I'm confused. What reversed it?:confused:

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Alright.. here we go. I bet 148+217+45 couldn't have asked for a better weekend!

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

I would tend to agree with you.....
I've got to cheer for the Technokitties on this one though they are all pretty nice robots...


Edit: After watching the finals, great job teams! Can't wait to see you live!

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Congrats to 45+1444. The ramp/defense makes the difference.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Huzzah to the 2 @ 12 of 1444!!!!! #1 seed and event champions!


Congrats 1444, 45, and 829!

I say that the only way an effective ramp/defense alliance loses in the elims is if another effective ramp/defense alliance faces them.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Congrats on the win 45! Can't wait to see you guys at Purdue.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Congrats to teams 45, 829, and 1444 for winning the regional.

Also congrats to teams 148, 217, and 2133. Good job to all teams.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Congrats IndianaFIRST teams! Way to show 'em what Hoosier (or Boiler) Robotics are all about. I don't know if I'm excited about the BMR or scared now. Either way there's gonna be some pretty spectacular matches.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Hey can somebody link me to the finals we couldnt see it
thanks
natalia

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Any list of the awards, by any chance?

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

It's good to see my old team, TechnoKats, get off to a good start this year. Congrats also to 829, and 1444. See you in Atlanta.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Can anybody explain how team 1747 got to pick Alliance #8 ahead of team 1329? When you take out 1747's 9th match, they both had 5 and 3 records, with 1329 hoding the ranking score tiebreaker advantage.

Since it was our goal to finally get to the finals this year, I'm just wondering if we actually would have, except for a scoring snafu.

I've been working the numbers all afternoon, and I just can't make sense of the scoring. Any help appreciated. I'm actually hoping I'm wrong. Either way it was a great regional. Contrats to everybody!

Thanks,
Jeff Holland
Team 1329

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Jeff, when you take out 1747's surrogate (9th) match they have the same QS as 1329 (both have 5-3 records) and their ranking score goes to 10.76 (the incorrectly reported 9.56 was calculated by dividing their total unpenalized opponents scores by 9 instead of 8). So they edge you out by half a ranking point. :(

-----------------------------

Wow. What a regional! What a final! I'll post some pictures later; watching the alliance of 148/217/2133 put up 7-rows was a real inspiration. Elegant and efficient machines, well operated, well strategized. They showed us how this game is supposed to be played.

In the end they couldn't quite handle the incredible combination of rack scoring, defense, and rampsmanship displayed by 1444/45/829, and it is fair to say that the unfortunate snagging of 217's arm in F1 was too much for the #1 alliance to overcome.

Congratulations to repeat St. Louis Regional Winners 1444 and their partners 45 and 839.

Congrats also to all of the award winners and especially to 461 for Engineering Inspiration and Website Awards. Special props to Jerry Budd for handling the scoring with grace under pressure.

And congrats to 1985 for an amazing robot and a well deserved Rookie All Star Award. Now there is another Emerson-sponsored team in town, and they are starting very strong.

Once again I want to tell the CD/FIRST community that I am very proud of my team, 931 Perpetual Chaos, for taking home their second St. Louis Regional Chairman's Award in three years. They built a solid robot that scored well and seeded 6th. And although our alliance (1502/931/1182) was overwhelmed in QF2 (awesome lifter, 1625) I am still very proud of their competitiveness. Watch for them at future events: Boilermaker, Atlanta, IRI.

Special thanks to Mark Koors, of TechnoKat and AndyMark fame, for making my rookie experience as an FTA run smoothly. Since Mark prefers to remain behind the scenes, some folks on CD may enjoy seeing a rare photo of him with the winning alliance in the background, attached below.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

The referee's made the decision, after posting the 0-0 score on the screen, that a tube can be unscored and scored simultaneously. With that 5th tube in a row, that gave them 34 points with -20 in penalties. At first they didn't count that 5th tube because the robot never released it onto the rack. it was in contact with the robot until the end game buzzer went off. However after further contemplation they gave them the tube. Our team went down to question the call, but the ref's weren't able to give us a firm answer, just that what happened stands.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

I wasn't watching 148 while that happened, so I can't comment on their actions during the match, but:

Seems to me if the refs are going to penalize them for descoring a tube, it implies that the tube was scored in the first place. The rules clearly state that a descored tube still counts, and the head ref even made an announcement on Friday to that effect.

Hence the 14-0 score.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Congratulations to all teams on a great effort; way to represent Indiana!!!!
boilermaker is going to be tough, and I'm looking forward to it.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Congrats to 1444, 45, 829! I wasn't sure if they were going to pull it off, but this just shows, with a good defense and a ramp made for two robots, you can pull off a win.

(217 getting tangled up and falling also didn't help them in the first round)

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Thanks for the Clarification! The webcast cut out during the match, so I came back to them looking at the tube and then I was doing something else (suppose to be studying, probably just being distracted) and didn't hear why. Those rules are good to know! Thanks again.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Thanks, Richard. I was doing the math wrong when I took out the 9th match. Congrats to the scorers for getting the hand recalculation right under extreme pressure! :D

One other question. What determined who got a 9th match? I'm assuming it's either random draw or order of registration. I'm also not sure why those 4 extra rounds were even played, since it seems to put those bots unnecessarily at risk of damage just before the elimination rounds.

Jeff

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Here's the clarification I can give; if a tube is still in contact with a robot at the end of a round, it is considered that the bot is descoring it (which uses the "if the robot were to disappear, would the tube fall" rule). Descoring a tube still leaves that tube valid for points, although it is also a 10 point penalty (edit: yeah basically what meatmanek said). As soon as the scores went up, both myself and 148's driver went up to question the call, only to be told that the refs were aware already and were working to change it.

Yeahh... our whole arm/grabber structure was already not in very good shape, and the tangle/fall did not help at all.


On behalf of team 217, I would like to congratulate 45, 829, and 1444 on their performance. We knew it was going to be an incredible couple of matches, and you never let up. I'd also like to extend a special thanks to 148 and 2133; you guys were aaawwesome. 2133, although they were a rookie team, put up some great defense, and 148's ridiculous scoring abilities couldn't have been better. Good luck to all in the future and we'll see you guys at Nats :)

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

I'll try to go back and look. At the time I assumed that at least some of the teams in the later matches were appearing for their eighth time. I didn't watch (although I am fairly certain that some of the top scouts did) to see which of the teams were playing as surrogates and which were still going for QS and RS.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

One clarification for you "ramp + defense" advocates: It was not the ramp + defense robots that clinched it for the winning alliance ... it was effective execution of a strategy and making simple, robust robots that won the match. 2 functioning ringer robots are hard to stop especially if you leave them alone at during the last 20 - 30 seconds when you are trying to get on the ramp.

We skimped on certan parts of our arm and, as it turns out, we were not robust enough to survive the entire elimination rounds. Our arm was crippled after the semi-finals and the crash in Finals 1 did us in. We were not able to lift high after that, which is our strong suit.

The simple, reliable, and effective robots of 1444, 45, and 829 beat our alliance; but don't jump on the defense + ramp bandwagon so soon .....

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

With the curious scheduling algorithm in use this year, don't bet on it being very random—though historically, it was by random selection. Also, as the extra risk goes, that's just something you have to be willing to accept. The possibility of surrogate matches is mentioned in the rules, so teams should be aware that they may be called upon.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

1444, 45, 829!

Congrats 1444, 45 and 829 - Awesome "Indiana" showing!

Can someone tell us who won the WFA? The FIRST site just says Harrison - 1747.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Don't get me wrong... I think extra matches are great. I'm just wondering if it's normal for 4 complete matches containing nothing but "surrogates" is a normal occurance at a FIRST regional. Also wondering if the teams (and the spectators) knew or should have known that these were basically practice rounds and nobody had anything to gain or lose in the last 4 matches.

Jeff

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Allison Babcock of 1747 won the WFA. It's very rare when a college mentor has won it, so congrats to her and their whole team.

I'd just like to thank everyone at the St. Louis Regional, especially the St. Louis volunteer coordinator Mike Gambill for giving me a shot at being MC - I had a blast and I hope everyone else did as a result too.

Congratulations to Richard of 931 for winning the volunteer award and to 931 for winning the Chairman's Award.

All in all, I thought the regional went very smoothly for being in week 1 - there were minimal glitches with the field which helped to keep things moving and on time.

Thanks again to everyone who made it happen.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Add my congratulations to Allison Babcock. Great teams have great mentors.

And Ryan, you were a big part of making it happen in St. Louis this year. Thanks for everything, and we hope you'll be back next year.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

If the "dissappearing robot rule" were in fact a rule, then a tube suspended horizontally above the spider foot at the end of a match would be considered scored.

7.2.1 Definitions:

“Hanging: A game piece is considered hanging if it’s weight is fully supported by a spider leg and it has been released by the possessing robot. A game piece is not considered hanging if it is supported by the spider foot.”

“THE POSSESSION: A game piece is considered to be in the possession of a robot if it is being fully supported by the robot, or if the robot is controlling the position and movement of the game piece... “

“SCORED: A spider leg is considered scored if one or two game pieces are hanging on it in a legal configuration… “

After review of the game definitions, it seems apparent that if the robot never left contact with the tube, it was never considered hanging because if there’s any contact at all between the robot and the game piece, the weight of the game piece is not fully supported by the spider leg and the tube is clearly still in the possession of the robot because the robot is controlling the position and movement of the game piece. In that circumstance the tube could/should not be considered scored.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Missouri teams, congratulations to a job well done in completing Dean's Homework.

Thanks to all of you in impressing our team of newbies.This was FIRST at its best. Parents raved about the event and commented on the impact the competition had on their kids. A+ in generating a "WOW" factor.

A special thanks to team 1706. We love you guys. Your upbeat attitude, ability to overcome adversity and your determination to succeed is a constant source of inspiration to those in St. Charles County.

Thanks to rookie team 2177 for choosing us as their alliance, and to fellow partner 830. What exciting matches! Great strategy showcased the strength of all three bots.

Hope to see you next year!

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Sorry, I didn't realize that everyone was a surrogate in those matches, but I just checked, and sure enough, 24 teams played nine matches, while the other 21 played eight. To play eight times, the required number of matches is 60, with no surrogates. (Check my reasoning: if you have 45 teams, and 8 matches each, that makes 360 instances of a team taking the field; since 6 teams play each match, that's 60 matches, and since that's a whole number, no surrogates are needed.) That's idiotic—it's got to be a bug.

Now here's what seems a little odd: the rule is based on the number of teams in attendance being divisible by 6. Since 45 ÷ 6 = 7.5, the rules call for surrogates and therefore extra matches, even if it is already possible to construct a 60-match schedule in which everyone plays eight times. How many surrogates do you need to make a (60 + n)-match schedule work? 6n. So why is n = 4? (64 matches were played.) Doesn't n = 1 work also? (Six teams play in their 9^th match, not necessarily together, and the rule requiring surrogates is satisfied.) And if they did play together, that's proof that the match is extraneous.

Whatever our qualms about the reasoning behind the match-generating algorithm, this looks like a bug, and needs to be fixed, whether or not FIRST decides to re-work the methodology of choosing which teams play one another.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Nice prediction! :)

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

I think everyone did really well. I really enjoyed watching the robots compete in a good manner, and talking to members of the various teams. Everyone was extremely professional in their actions, and innovative in their robot designs.

I can honestly say that I'm perfectly happy with the silver, because 1444, 45, and 829 were a really good match up.

Not to be rambling, I'd just like to thank all of the teams who showed up, especially the rookie teams. You inspired me to stay in robotics till I graduate, and probably after that too.

And also a special thanks to 2133 and 217 , for being awesome teammates.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

What a great competition!
Our team had a great time and the bot performed as expected. We were picked as an alliance partner and all played well together.

All of the people that came to see the competition were very impressed - impressed by the overall competition and the mechanical expertise shown by each team as they walked through the pits. Thanks to everyone who answered questions from the younger crowd, you'll never know how you influenced one of them to join their school team when they get older! Several of our Lego Team kids came by to check out Saturday and now want us to get back to Lego skill building now that Robot season is over. Sigh.

I can't wait for next year, but I need to recover from this one :) I think the Friday 5am tv shoot on did me in..

Best of luck to those continuing on this season, we plan to be at the IRI in July. The fish hats may be a little warm in July though..

DeAnna

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

OK, so make that two Indiana teams.

Thanks for a Great Regional
 

Warren Robotics "Digital Goats" arrived back at Warren Central HS/Walker Career Center in Indianapolis at 2 AM. Everyone was tired but very happy.

Many thanks to everyone involved with organizing the St. Louis Regional.

Congratulations to alliance team members:
Lightning Lancers #1444 and
TechnoKats #45.
Thank you for picking us!!
It was an honor to compete with you.

We are now looking for ways to finance a trip to Atlanta. Next stop for us is the Boilermaker Regional.

See you next year.:)

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

i would like to thank everyone who helped out with the 2007 st louis regionals. i know yall put a lot of hard work into it and im really glad. i thanked alot of voulenteers but i couldnt get to all of them. (mainly because there was over 200). but it was a super fun regional and i think it went great.

i would also like to congradulate teams 1444, 45, and 829 for their victory. they all 3 had great robots and used each ones capabilities to the max.

i would also like to thank teams 217 and 2133 for all their help. they were great teammates. 2133's defense was extreamly good and 217's scoring capability was awesome. i hope 217's arm damage is not too bad off.

it was a super fun regionals and i think it demostrated gracious professionalism to the extreame.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Wow, what a regional at St. Louis! Here are some random notes...

Thank you to teams 1444 for choosing us as a partner and 829 for completing a great alliance. It was an honor and pleasure to work with both of your drive teams and impressive to see you handle your well-built and durable robots. It was an honor to get to know the 1444 team from St. Louis, work with their knowledgeable drive team, and see how their students designed their own shifter gearboxes.

I am very proud to be a TechnoKat. This was definitely a TEAM accomplishment, to be a part of the St. Louis regional winning alliance. Our scouting team, pit crew, drive team support crew, and drive team all pulled their weight to help make this effort a winning one. Also, winning the Motorola Quality Award for only the 2nd time in TechnoKats history is quite an accomplishment. Way to go all of you! I was reminded just how special our drive team and pit crew is when all I was doing in the finals was fetching tools.

The quality of teams and the people in the St. Louis region is outstanding. I am not sure I've been to a regional that had more volunteers running it. There was an abundance of judges, inspectors, que-ers, and people all around to help make this competition enjoyable. Our team parents (and grandparents) who volunteered agreed that this was one of the best regionals they have attended. Kudos to the St. Louis Regional planning committee. I would recommend this regional to any team wishing to attend.

As for qualification matches, it was not fun going against 148 5 out of the 9 matches we were in. However, it was good practice for our drivers to play against the heavy defense that JVN would send after us in the form of 148's alliance partners. I was happy to see that our drivers scored at least 2 or more tubes in each match under this pressure.

Ramps are important, but time will tell if 2 tube scorers and a defender can beat 2 tube scorers and a ramp. The final round went to the 2 scorers and the ramp (1444, 45, and 829), but it was close. If 148 would have scored one last ringer in the first match, the would have one that match. That was the same match that 217 was hung up on the rack ... however, at the same time, 1444 was tipped over and inoperable for most of the match. Our strategy was to scatter the rack with tubes, play defense on their tube scorers, breaking up the opportunity for large rows, and get both robots on the ramp at the end. Thankfully, it worked.

It is especially great to see team 829 finally find success on the FIRST playing field. These guys from Warren Central HS and Walker Career Center in Indianapolis have a great team and work hard to make a well-designed robot each year. This year, their ramp-bot is a definite winner. Here's to lead teacher Randy Decker and the rest of the Digital Goats for a great win.

This game is fun... the end game makes it great. Ramps are the key to the excitement.

It's gonna be a good year for FIRST.

Andy B.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

I want to congratulate teams 148, 217 and 2133 for a hard fought final matches. Your bots are awesome and for a while I thought we might have a 3rd match. Congratulations team 148 on your #1 ranking and your performance throughout the qualification rounds. Your bot was fun to watch.

On behalf of Warren Robotics Team #829 "Digital Goats" I wish all of you good luck throughout the 2006-07 FIRST competition season!!

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

i thought so too. but after 217's fall and their arm trouble. it looked bad. then in the middle of the 2nd match our intake claw got bent up and we couldnt even grab a tube. and we had used our timeout already after the first match to fix a pneumatic problem. so even if we would of made it to the 3rd match. we would of been extreamly banged up with no time for repairs lol

and i realy enjoyed working with yall too. yalls robot was quite awesome. i hope its up to par for atlanta

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

How did team 888 do? they have been very helpful to us
(2199) in our rookie year and we are curious how they did.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

I'm compiling a list of Rookie Awards and the Highest Rookie Seed was awarded to 2177, the Visitation Blazers. According to the team results section it looks like 1985 Robohawks finished prelims with a higher ranking. Does anyone have the reason that 1985 was not given the HRS? Does it have something to do with 2177 playing 8 matches while 1985 played 9?

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

The 9th match didn't count.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Thanks!

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

To expand on IndySam's comment -- we played eight qualifying matches per team in St. Louis, but due to an error in the match generation algorithm several teams played unnecessary "surrogate" matches. Results of those extra matches were used to calculate the standings reported on the FIRST site (under Regional Events) but that was incorrect. Correct seedings as defined in section 9.3 of the 2007 FRC Manual were calculated manually before we proceeded with the eliminations, using the results of each team's first eight matches.

Re: 2007 St. Louis Regional
 

Oh my! I always wondered how they counted the matches when the number of teams wasn't divisible by 6. And now I know!:)