![]() |
No More Teasers in 2007?
I'm not sure how well this'll be received, but I wanted to make a plea before the new season started to all of the forum members.
Over the past years, the number of folks posting 'teasers' of their robot to the CD-Media gallery has gone through the roof. Each of these photos needs to be approved by a moderator, have its tags checked, and discussion watched -- all creating a lot of additional work for a team of folks who're also busy with their own teams. What's worst is that the discussion about these teasers is almost never helpful to the community and instead consists of a lot of guessing, questions, and vague comments. A thread with twenty posts trying to discern what's shown in your blurry photograph of nuts and bolts is wasting everyone's time -- including your own! Your wheels, no matter the pattern you've cut into them, are still just wheels and probably aren't noteworthy. Instead, if you'd like to post photos of your robot and your work to CD, I encourage you to give full disclosure. Show the whole mechanism, part, or robot and honestly and explicitly describe its function and design. Answer questions fully and honestly and help the community grow through your participation. If you've got something to say, to share or to question, by all means do so! But consider that, if you're posting only to generate hype, awareness or envy of your team, your robot or your work, you may be creating a lot more work for folks who're volunteering their time, more to read for folks already on a tight schedule and more that will clutter the forums and make it harder to find relevant, important information. Edit: Quickly searching the gallery for 'teaser', I found these: Bad: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22770 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22652 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/25704 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/23497 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22995 Good: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/23015 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/23063 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22802 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22563 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/19859 Pictures that show entire mechanisms are fantastic -- sometimes even when unaccompanied by explanation. It's the photos that show common items like wheels, sprockets and pieces of aluminum that're just clutter. Edited again to add: Dave reminded me that what I'm writing might be considered by some to be policy or a decree from on high that this stuff isn't allowed. I can't do that and I sort of expected that everyone knows that, but in case that's not true -- I'm not speaking in any official capacity here. I'm just asking, as someone who's been reading nearly everything posted to the forums for five or so years, that we're all considerate of the time and effort of others in the coming season. I'm really very personable! Honest. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007!
Madison,
I will be the first person to thank all of the CD mods for everything they do. That being said, every feature of this site takes mods, that includes chit chat, technical etc. I find teasers fun, especially from big name teams. It builds the excitement and encourages the imagination. I do not, however, consider a picture of a pile of screws teasers. Pictures like this are fun (and yes, I'm using my team's in a link because I liked the way it was done). Obviously we don't need 10 teasers of each team, but I like to have a teaser from teams. Especially for the younger teams, it adds to the fun! If the mods don't mind a little bit of extra work, I'd like to see teasers say. And Brandon, if that means you need more mods, I'm on here constantly and will help out if you need it ~Beth |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007!
How about instead of saying no teasers, we just keep up the rule of no dumb pictures? Just because you aren't impressed by the pattern that somebody cut into their wheels doesn't mean that other people aren't. I personally like teaser pictures of novel mechanisms, and I understand why teams don't want to give away the whole idea when we're in the heat of build season. Blurry pictures of nuts and bolts would probably qualify as "dumb", but if it's something you're proud of, why not show it off, even if just in part? Not everything about FIRST always has to be about inspiration... sometimes it can just be about fun.
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007!
I think its an issue more about "trigger happiness."
I've seen a lot of members (ehm myself:p) go crazy on posting teasers, which (i do agree) adds up the work for the moderator. But on the other hand, as Beth has mentioned, Teasers can be a lot of fun and adds up the excitement of whats the actual bots gonna be like. So here's what i sugegst...... It should be team's (or members who are representing that team) responsibility to post only one teaser, and than keep an eye on that particular teaser to answer all the questions. I think one teaser per team is not a bad idea (but remember, thats still 1000+). So CD members, i know pressing that 'submit' button and adding teasers can be really fun, but at the same time no one wants brandon (or any other moderator) running after us with a stick:p. I appreciate (and we all should) the work put in by the moderators to keep this site running, so please give them a break. Only one teaser per team. Thanks Imad |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007!
Sometimes i find teasers nice when they show part of an uncompleted mechanism. When you are showing pictures of an entire robot thats not really much of a "teaser". Pictures that things likes wheels aren't really teasers in my opinion. I still like to see them because it is nice to be able to see how other teams do things and get ideas from them.
In your list of pictures that were good and bad you went against what you said made a good teaser. you posted a picture of one of 111 wheels (just the wheel from a cool angle) and you listed that as a good teaser but you said "It's the photos that show common items like wheels, sprockets and pieces of aluminum that're just clutter." so i dont understand how this is good. If it is such a horrendous task for the mods (im not saying it isn't) why dot you solicit to make more people mods. I don't know the criteria but im sure there are a good number of people who could be given the job of approving pictures and tags who are trustworthy and well known on CD. and if cluttering the forums is a problem make a sub-forum for just teasers. just my $0.02 |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007!
How about we limit each team to ONE teaser? And also, no ones that are so obscure and random that it offers absolutely no insight into what you're doing (a bolt, CMUCam, shaft encoder, pile of wires, etc.)
If you want to put more up, upload them to your own site, and then link them in the thread of the first one. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007!
As a photo mod, the process of going through these pictures is not so bad. The real pain comes when a discussion of a picture goes no where, such as discussing a picture of 2 people or a person in a place, etc and we have to move the discussion to Chit-Chat or watch it constantly to make sure people aren't posting back and forth and what not.
I am all for discussing robots in progress and pictures that have worth. But if someone is going to post a picture of a piece of metal and 20 people are going to reply with "Oh man what is that? I bet its going to be an arm, awesome," then our job becomes tedious and a pain. Post meaningful photos and create meaningful discussions, but if its something that can be discussed in an IM or email, don't bring it to the forums. My $0.02. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007!
Quote:
It's by no means black or white, obviously, and I mentioned in the beginning that it's possibly many will disagree with me. I just though it might be time for a friendly reminder to everyone that there are people behind the scenes and, perhaps more importantly, there're folks reading the forums during the build season that don't have hours a day to pour through threads that have no value -- and fun isn't valuable to someone trying to find an answer to their question. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007!
Quote:
However, I think finished custom wheels, transmissions, etc are cool, even if theyre not shown in a full pic of the bot. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
So perhaps we need to make a rule that the only "teasers" need to be of completed and assembled mechanisms?
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I spend a lot of time as a mod (not pictures yet) and I really don't mind the discussions. As far as I am concerned I have no problem with even a couple of pictures. The teams that post more than that I find annoying and mark that team down on my don't want to meet list.
Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I agree. I think sometimes teasers get out of hand.
However, I don't think it should be limited to complete robots or mechanisms. Take the word teaser itself. They tease people, and provoke interest. Teasers are meant to spark interest, and I know that completed robots do that, but not in the same way as partly revealing a robot or mechanism. We can see those on websites and such. I love this teaser Rees took here... I think that this picture is a true definition of a teaser. If you look closely, you can see part of the arm mechanism used to lift up the boxes in 2003, in the reflection of the light. The picture reveals some of the robot, but not the whole thing. It adds suspense to the completion of the robot, and not the completed robot itself. So what to do to solve this...? Maybe allow each team to post one teaser, and one completed robot picture? Maybe you could start a thread of 2007 robot teasers, and one for 2007 completed robots. Just a suggestion. You could even make the forum locked, so people have to go through a mod to post something. But I also think that people need to come to the understanding that a pile of wires, or just a pile of metal is in no way a real teaser, and it doesn't help CD users or mods. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I agree with the idea of one teaser pic and one finished pic,
but wouldn't Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
This is what I'm gathering from what people have said.
If it came from the KOP - Don't post it If it was bought - Don't post it If it is strikingly similar to something that could have been bought (ie: custom sprocket) - Don't post it Am I remotely correct? |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I kinda like seeing what other teams have done even if its vague or not very interesting. I understan that the mods have lots of work to do, especially since each image is approved so that there is no spam. However, I dont think we should start limiting what images can be posted because the mods dont wanna deal with it. If it is becoming to much for the mods then lets add a few more mods. Its not like there arent lot sof people here and many willing to help out. Again, thank you mods for your work, but lets not limit CD just because we dont currently have enough mods.
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
It may be as simple as
- quality not quantity - using common sense when making a decision regarding a teaser - does it add, does it detract, does it clutter? -- To add to this, when making suggestions/comments/referrals to threads - we can be gracious. Jane |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Well I think that what we're facing is a common sense issue. Like someone above me put it, people are getting trigger-happy with CD media. There's really not much to be done about that unless Brandon et al want to put an upload cap on every user.
Like you said, there can't be any hard and fast rules, and lacking hard and fast rules, I'd rather see a few bad teasers than a bunch of people withholding information in fear of mod wrath. Everyone should think before they click submit, but not everyone will read this thread, and not everyone who reads this thread will always remember to stop and think, so it looks to me like there's nothing that CD can do but add more mods. That said, I think this forum takes itself too seriously sometimes. The backlash you can get for making a new thread bearing any similarity to a previous one sometimes approaches ridiculous. (I know the reasoning for this and in most cases it's right, but when you get flamed for not dredging up a 6-month-old thread...) This is a massive forum, and it does need policing and a general attitude of maturity and, at times, restraint, but it's still a forum, a place of free expression and communication between, to a large degree, high school students. (Woo, run-on!) This isn't an official business site or any other professional discussion, so sometimes there's an occasion to lighten up. (I suspect that that last paragraph may cause a stir, and I really hope it doesn't, but I felt it should be said, and I think I said it politely and maturely.) |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Half the fun of a teaser is just that... teasing. If I saw a completed bot or chassis or anything nearly finished I wouldn't be teased at all. I do agree that some photos of bolts and chain and other random parts are uneccesary, however, the lasercut/waterjet parts in the first "bad" teaser link you posted are perfect teasers! It makes people think "how could those possibly fit together, and what function does that mechanism serve." Bottomline - it's fun guessing what people are doing. Truly good teasers should give people a good place to start guessing, while still leaving some mystery and uncertainty.
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
The custom sprocket example is the same thing: a sprocket you hex broached off of McMaster won't work, but this is certainly fine. Then again, there stands to be an exception for mass quantities of special items. Unless you're AndyMark or the NiagraFIRST Triplets, I'd say a box of fifty of those hex-broached sprockets would certainly turn heads. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I agree with this thread totally. I know everybody feels their widgets are special, but unless they really are in some way unique or innovative, most of us arn't that interested.
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
It's much more an issue of limiting what images are uploaded so that the general community doesn't have to see something that's completely ordinary and boring and not worth wasting webspace over. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
The difference between 188's 2006 robot picture you posted and something like this is that the paint rollers are a part of the entire assembly that shows us how they are using them. Also, the rollers are unique and they are something you probably wouldn't expect to see on a robot, but if it is a set of AM omni-wheels, then maybe someone should rethink what they are about to upload. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I personally love teasers. Teasers should have a definition to them somewhat though. They should be related to something you are using on your robot. They don't have to be a completed assembly or an almost complete robot, they could just be something as simple and meshed gears or a metal assembly. I do agree that random pics of off the shelf sprockets do get to be annoying. Basically, I love teasers, I want to see more this year, maybe a limit per team is needed, but I definitely want to see teasers again! :yikes: This is just my $.02.
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
Just my own $.02 worth, ~Greg |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I'm going to have to agree with Beth, if the load is too hefty, add more moderators. There are 1000+ teams, even if teams limited to only a few teasers through out the whole season, thats still thousands pics. I understand its a tough load, but maybe you need to make a picture specific moderation group who just concentrate on pictures and their discusion.
I guess with the volume increase in years, traffic limitations may be needed and logical, but then again thats one of the biggest reasons I frequent Delphi during build season. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I am in full agreement with Madison on this one. Although many enjoy trying to make people "guess" what great thing their team has done, I have trouble seeing how that adds to the colaboration of teams which is what CD is most used for. Why make everyone wait until the regional? Anyone not at the regional won't get to see it. If a team posts a full picture of their robot, drivetrain, arm, or mechanism in the 4th week how many other teams are going to completely ditch their own designs and copy what they saw in a picture? Very few.
I prefer spoilers to teasers. I make a point to check out the robot or part with my own eyes in the team's pit or in a match. I would be unaware of that team if they did not post a spoiler in advance. I give little credit to teasers. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I don't know about you, but rarely do we have any mechanism completed by week 4. Would you prefer we posted pictures after ship date? Where is the fun there? We might as well wait until regionals!
I also think this is becoming a symantic argument, when it shouldn't even be an argument, period! ... I never really thought this was an issue until it was brought up. This will always be an issue. We have a lot of younger students on here, many of whom still cannot differentiate between a good and a bad teaser... no harm there, we shouldn't punish them for posting "useless" pictures. I would hope that those threads simply fade away due to the lack of responses. Do we really need 2 pages of discussion on what is a good and a bad teaser? It seems like everyone needs to voice their opinion these days and argue about it for days... it makes me want to read CD less and less. Opinions are great, but 40+ pages in some threads is ridiculous. I am not sure if you noticed, but that thread I created was placed in the rumor mill for a reason. It sounds like you dislike the 'fun' factor that CD posseses... No offesne, but if I didn't occasionally laugh, or have to stare at a random 'teaser' picture for a few minutes to figure out what the pic is of, I don't think I would continue to read CD. That is just me though... yet another opinion to add to the pile. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
Why post the completed robots in the first place? Answer is simple, it helps with scouting. You want to have some notes set up before the regional (or video notes) about various robots before you go and compete with/against them in regional or championship play. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Perhaps it would be better to put the teasers in FIRSTr, while "teasers" that show the beginnings of the robot, in CD.
Daisy |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Often the silly teasers are due to new people who are very overwhelmed by the excitement of the build season and reading all of the attention lavished on the elites.
People live for acceptance from their peers and want them and their team to have the same acceptance lavished on their team as well. Even if it's something that isn't all that revoloutinary. It's something they've never done before so it's special to them just not to the rest of the FIRST community. I don't see how anyone is really going to control the "dumb teasers" without alienating people who are going to feel persecuted and censored. ] The main use of Chiefdelphi is self expression of what FIRST means to you. Sometimes they are not good choices and are met with indifference to outright anger and dissaproval. It would be nice to protect people from their bad choices but not really feasable. Dumb teasers are still going to happen whether we like them or not. Let's not turn it into a Federal case and make CD a miserable place for the overenthusiatic who's only crime was just not knowing better. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I thought I would bump this one because, well, it's getting kind of rediculous again.:cool:
Please think twice before taking up disk space and bandwidth that ISN'T FREE, with something that really doesn't benefit the community. If you can't post a complete picture or description for fear someone may copy your design or create a defense just for you, then please save it for Regionals. Besides, boasting is really not GP. OK, I'm off my soap box. Please enjoy the rest of build season!!! |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I think we should let the teasers be!
I get more enjoyment out of looking at a teaser picture that is partial or vague than I do looking at a post or thread which complains about them, or seeing the thousands of identical racks that FIRST teams have made. Teasers are are different. They are a break from the monotony of usual CD discussion. You show me 24 sprockets, and I can exercise my brain by trying to figure out what they are for. The 100kb that it takes for a teaser picture really isn't going to hurt the CD server, as that is what it was designed for... hosting lots and lots of pictures. If the moderators thought it was good enough to post, then I think we all should. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
I thought I would resurrect this thread as it is pertinent.
I just saw a piece of aluminum with 2 holes drilled in it and 36" written on it. Whoever it was, don't take offense, I just mean it to constructive critisism. If you do, I appoligize. All these teasers must be approved by the moderators and they have a lot work to do on this site Please see post #1 for good and bad examples. I like teasers too but PLEASE make them interesting or funny :D |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Since teaser pictures have already started to pop up, I thought I bring back this thread yet again.
There are many good examples and points brought up here that are still valid. Happy build season! |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Meh, I'll just go with the same policy I've always had with teasers and continue to ignore them.
They can get back to me when you have something I'm actually interested in: a working robot. |
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Quote:
|
Re: No More Teasers in 2007?
Aye. teasers be damned
|
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:37. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi