Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I'm happy to announce that there will be a new and improved version of Sundial, version 4.0, for the 2007 FRC season. I'm not sure which events it'll be available at yet, but there's a possibility it will be at every regional this year as well as the Championship.

What is Sundial?
Sundial is a web-based application that runs off of a wireless network at a FIRST Robotics Competition event. Teams connect to the network, plug in their team number, and then have access to a bunch of information, including:

• A countdown to the team's next match, which receives updates over the wireless network in order to stay synchronized with playing field operations
• A match schedule with the team's matches highlighted
• Detailed qualification match results
• Team standings

What's new in version 4.0?

• The Adobe Flash interface of old versions is gone, having been replaced with HTML/CSS and AJAX (Asynchronous Javascript And XML).
• Sundial will now generate PDF reports of the match schedule, results and standings (useful for printing out extra copies of the match schedule or a copy of the standings to bring to alliance selections).

Help me test Sundial:
I've got a beta version up at http://sundial.patfair.net; I'd appreciate any constructive criticism or bug reports. I'm especially interested in reports on browser compatibility, since I've only tested it on Firefox 2 and IE 7, and only at screen resolution of 1600x1200. (The data on there now is from GTR 2006, and is not entirely accurate since it came from the wrong scoring computer.)

I hope you like it.

- Patrick
Sundial Developer

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Wow Pat, I love the new features. Congrats on the great work!

Regarding compatibility, it works fine on Firefox 1.5 and 1024x768 screen resolution.

/dan

[EDIT]
I'll second what Art said about the font being too small from far away at 1024x768.
[/EDIT]

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

It's looking really good so far. :D

As for feedback, I see that the page automagically resizes itself to best fit your screen size. However, on screens at or below 1024x768 resolution, some of the font sizes are on the borderline of being illegible from a few feet away. Can you have the page automatically fill the entire page width (i.e. no blue areas on the side of the screen) on the smaller screen resolutions, so the font sizes in the schedule, match results, etc. pages can be a bit larger?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

This is really snazzy.

The right-most numbers in the countdown to the next match appear cut off on my computer. I am running 1440x900 Firefox 2. Attached is a screenshot illustrating the problem.

Otherwise, this is super duper cool. Will you have a version for teams who are scouting in the stands? It seems like getting rankings and match lists and all of this, on a laptop, would be extraordinarily useful for scouts.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Works with Safari 2.04 as well

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I found the font really small for 1024x768 screens. However if you full screen your browser (F10) then the text becomes readable.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

/worship Pat

Great Job Pat! The interface looks absolutely incredible.

On a related note, did Sundial run at all last year?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Yikes! They better get moving...

Seriously though, it's very nice looking, and it's working fine here at 1280x800 with Firefox 2 (ver. 2.0.0.1).

I am impressed.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I think I remember seeing it at GSR last year.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

wow ... what a great utility. extremely useful for in the pits and in the stand.

i would really love this for the NJ regional

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

It definately ran during some of the Championship, although it was also down for portions of it.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Neato! I'm a big fan of Sundial and I've loved using it in the past. What would the requirements and the steps needed to set up a server at an event?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

This was a great resource in Boston, I agree bring it to NJ

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

It was up at the Phoenix regional and maybe the Los Angeles Regional as well (don't really remember...)

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

It appears to work fine in Firefox 2.0 RC3, IE6 (actually an IE tab inside of FF), K-Meleon 1.02, Opera 9.02, and SeaMonkey 1.0.5 all on Windows XP 5.1.2600 and looks fine at 1680 X 1050. The only issue I see is the "Number of times your team has accessed the server" counter. Since it appears to count pageloads, the number can be somewhat misleading. (Apparentally 1114 had accessed it 649 times at the last time I checked)

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

What would be cool to add is an API, so that teams can integrate it into their own scouting/match software as well.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Looks very nice at easily able to navigate through, self explanatory, No problems on IE 7 @ 1024 x 768. Maybe the text can be made a bit larger no more than 2 sizes up though. I guess I won't be using Team 810s Countdown Timer that is about 6 - 7 years old =) just kidding I'll still use it for my own agenda at the regional =) just so it doesn't feel lonely.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I came into this topic thinking someone had remade the sundial (timepiece) and was totally expecting a picture of a watch. That aside, that sounds awesome!

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Works in Opera 9.01 at whatever size I made it.
One small thing though, when I fullscreen it, the right side white border gets chopped off. No information is missing, just the border.

I really like the "view PDF" option.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

That first verson came out in 2005 when i was still a student. it was almost hypnotising seeing that clock countdown. also realy cool that you could change the number and see when other teams had to be at a match too.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I've shrunk the margins a bit, but I don't really like the way it looks without margins at all. I've also increased the size of the fonts on the countdown tab; the other tabs aren't really intended to be viewed from afar.

Should be fixed now.

Sundial should work in the stands as long as there's a signal, and there's no limit to the number of times a single team can connect. Team 296 typically has three or four instances running simultaneously.

It ran at BAE, UTC, Boston, and GTR, as well as in all four Championship divisions last year although there were a lot of problems with the NASA-provided wireless network.

The possibility that's being considered is for FIRST to provide the setup at each event, seeing as the only way to get accurate scoring data is to pull it through a network link from the scoring system, as was done at the Championship last year. I'm not sure FIRST would allow any team to have such a link. That aside, all you need is a computer running Apache/PHP/MySQL/BIND, and a wireless router.

That could possibly just have been me when I was testing it out. Every time the client app requests data from the server, a database field corresponding to the team number is incremented, and I didn't clear the statistics before copying my database from my computer to my webserver.

Would you mind posting a screenshot of this?


Thank goodness for multiquote! :)

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I noticed that when you look on the schedule, it does not say if a match is finished or not. It just continues to say that it is started.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I hate to be a killjoy, but what's going to happen with this and the new rule against internet access?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Sundial is run on an intranet if I'm not mistaken, and considering that it was kind of sanctioned by FIRST and NASA during Championships last year...

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

New rule? That rules has been there for years... it just isn't enforced.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

What is the rule? I have never seen it before. Please inform!

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

3.12 SITE RESTRICTIONS

• Do not arrange for Internet access on the site or attempt to connect to the Internet.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Sundial isn't the internet. It's running on an intranet.

Yay technicalities?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

HAHA i love how matches are almost 90,000 minutes late.
but seriously very nice work. It works on FF2 on 1280x800 with no apparant problems. looks nice and very readable.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Jeff, I installed Opera 9.01 to try and duplicate the bug, but it worked fine for me every time I fullscreened it. I'm not sure what's causing the issue you're having.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

It looks very nice, good work. Sundial is always nice to have around.

You gotta like that high score 557 :eek: Must have been quite a match

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

awesome =) tested it and it works really well! keep up the good work! :D

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Looks great!

I'd love to see a version that you could make full screen, and leave it alone so that it would cycle through the various pages, and maybe only have the schedule + results pages list only the matches your team was in.

This would be great, because for my team's pit we usually have 2-3 monitors with one computer, so I'm thinking of just making 1 screen the countdown timer.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

we miss you Pat!
can't wait to see you at the regionals!
[maybe before then?]

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

possibly one the greatest things created for FIRST

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Team 1138 hosted Sundial at the '06 Los Angeles Regional, and would like to do it again this year.

Ray
Mentor, Team1138
Eagle Engineering

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I would be able to host this at the St. Louis Regional if no one else is. I assume the only requirements are a wireless router and some sort of computer to act as a server?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I was amazed when I saw Sundial for the first time at Championship last year, it was invaluable for us. I'd love to see it show up at Chesapeake this year...

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

In a PM to me Pat Fairbank said that it looked like FIRST would run Sundial at the events. If not he would release the source for it. If FIRST is not going to run Sundial at VCU, I would be more than willing to, but I need to know sooner rather than later so I can scrap together the hardware.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I've been trying through a number of channels to get the information I need to get Sundial up and running without requiring constant manual attention; unfortunately, none of my attempts have borne fruit thus far.

So I will try to cobble something together for the first week regionals over the next couple of days - however, it will require the hosting team to do a good bit of data entry and constant watching of the playing field. I won't be releasing the code publicly, so if your team is willing and able to host, for first week regionals only, please send me a PM specifying the regional and your email address.

What you need to host Sundial:
- Computer running Windows
- Wireless router
- Knowledge of Apache/PHP/MySQL/BIND
- At least one person to run the system full-time

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I have everything except the person to man it full-time; can it be looked at every hour or so or does someone literally need to sit there and constantly watch it?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

The problem is, without a link to the FIRST scoring system, Sundial has to be manually told every time a match starts so that it can stay current.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I could ask one of the scouting people if they wouldn't mind doing that. :)

So, how do I get the files?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Please send me a PM with your e-mail address.

I don't have anything now, but tomorrow evening I will quickly write up some manual entry tools and put together a package.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

i know there is that rule about no internet access, but if this program displays scores and matches and stuff, wouldnt it be a fantastic thing to have on the internet? for any parent or just a person with a specific interest in a certain team being able to have a program like this, (especially when coupled with a webcast like at VCU) people at home can get almost as into it as people at the event. one if the biggest problems with watching the webcast is you never know whos coming on soon, how your son's team is doing etc, but if this info were available online during the competition live that would be really great.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I'm not too knowledgeable in programming, but here's a small suggestion. Don't worry if it's entirely impossible.

Might there be a way to allow users of the system to hit a button right as they send out the ir pot from the pits to the field, and the program will adjust accordingly?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

VCU is providing FIRST Teams with internet access this year. Is there any hope of a test run of sundial on either Friday/Saturday. As for the 4 points need, Team 1123 can try to man a booth, and provide a laptop, but we don't have the following items, though I think we can make a run to Best Buy (or something like that) in the morning for the router. If any one can help us at the VCU regional, that would be great. Please email me for my cell phone #. aksimhal AT gmail DOT com or visit Team 1123's Pit. [don't PM me, cause I may not be able to check it in time. thanks]

I'll try to check my email account from my cell phone as often a possible.

Even if we can only do Saturday, that would be great because it might get other people interested who might be able to have a full, all 3 day running version of sundial.

Thanks,

Anish

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Works on IE 5 (School computer)

BTW: I love how our team is
-Running 89435 minutes late -

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Ok this works perfectly in Firefox 2.0.0.2, and (ick) Internet Explorer 7 both maximized at 1280 x 1024 resolution. They also (quite importantly for me) work in Opera Mobile 8.6 on my Windows Mobile 5 PPC @ 320 x 240 resolution. However, Pocket Internet Explorer chokes on the code for selecting the event. I don't see any listed events on it. I must thank you for making it non-flash based though. Adobe is WAY behind on Flash releases on the PPC so I couldn't use this wonderful service last year.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

If there are any teams out there interested in hosting Sundial for the second week of regionals, please send me a PM.

Once again, in order to run Sundial, you need:
- Computer running Windows
- Wireless router
- Knowledge of Apache/PHP/MySQL/BIND
- At least one person to run the system full-time

The following second-week events are already covered:
Great Lakes Regional
L.A. Regional
Brazil Pilot

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

If there are any teams out there interested in hosting Sundial for the third week of regionals, please send me a PM.

The following third-week events are already covered:
Boilermaker Regional
Silicon Valley Regional
UTC Connecticut Regional

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

If there are any teams out there interested in hosting Sundial for the fourth or fifth week of regionals, please send me a PM.

The following fourth-week events are covered:
Buckeye Regional
San Diego Regional
Waterloo Regional

And the following fifth-week events are covered:
Davis Sacramento Regional
Greater Toronto Regional
West Michigan Regional

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I like the concept of sundial and its options, but what I didn't like at boilermaker was that it was almost always off time :ahh:. I tried to refresh my page which would sometimes do it but other times it would be off by an hour or more. Possibly the daylight savings bug?

-Mike

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Just a thought....

The possibility of this is probably limited due to venue logistics but it would be cool if there was a way to open Sundial for a regional up to web cast viewers so you could then know when the teams you wanted to see were going to come up, etc.

-Justin

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I agree, if this was possible it would be GREAT for those of us getting our FIRST fix by watching webcasts.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Do all the regionals have free wireless and dont mind you running a server? Thats the main issues.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

how do you access sundial at events?
i tried at Boilermaker with no avail :(

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

That's the only conclusion I could come to. The owner of the host computer and I spent a lot of time changing time zones, clock settings, and entered match times, and we could never get everything to add up. Some client computers reported the proper time of day but had the match times off by an hour with the field running an hour off in the other direction, other clients showed the time of day wrong and the match times correct and agreeing with the field delay, and at least one client showed the field running two hours slow.

We eventually gave up trying to make it work properly for everyone, and settled for making it work consistently (if differently) on a given computer.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

If Sundial is up and running, when connected to the wireless network, you can either connect to http://sundial.first or http://192.168.1.2 (neither will work now). They technically take you to the same place, but the second is a safe bet, I know when I was running Sundial at SVR, I had some minor problems getting DNS working, so the first address did not work.

Also, the hour off problem is the DST bug, I had to move time backwards an hour on the host computer, which had not yet gotten the DST update. Other computers will show different times for matches and current time, but they will all still show the correct countdown timer.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Yes, the DST bug sounds like the most likely reason. Client computers will display the wrong match times if either they or the server is set to the wrong timezone or time. However, the countdown times will always be correct if the server time is correct, as the clients synchronize with the server to eliminate any discrepancy in the countdown.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

thanks :)

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

This feature was extremely useful at UTC. I hope we can use it again at the championships. Great job.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Sorry, that was my fault as I was running it plus I was pit boss, and I had chairman's. The people I asked to help me were to lazy to do anything. Sorry! Also the time problem was due to your computer, my computer, my router, and a problem I was unable to control. Sundial would show different things on different computers all of the time.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Will Sundial be running at Nationals?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

The "07_CMP_Essential_Information" document recently released by FIRST describes Sundial, but it doesn't actually come out and say that it will be available. I fully expect that it will be, though.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

I'm still waiting on the final confirmation from FIRST, and the logistics are still being worked out with NASA and 4FX, but it looks as if Sundial will be running at the Championship in all four divisions, complete with match results and standings.

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

Thus is probably a bot much to ask for, but will the standing include QP's, win/loss/tie, etc stats too? Or will it simply show the standings with just a team #?

Re: Introducing the newest version of Sundial
 

If you go to the link in Pat's first post on this thread, you can see just what he is talking about.