Universal Robot Connector
 

An important source of extra points in RACK & ROLL is robot lifting. To help avoid issues with teams breaking each other's robots, Team 555 proposes a universal latch design, one gender of which will be attached to lifter bots, the other to liftees. It should be sturdy and relatively easy to construct.
Opinions?
Ideas?

EDIT: The Unified Linkage Theory, perhaps?

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

I agree, this would be a great way for all the teams to work together to build our own standard, make the game run smoother for those participating, and give us a chance to learn more, too. However this plays out, I just would like to encourage as many teams as possible to get behind a unified standard.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

I think this is a very good idea. But as with everything there are MANY ways to accomplish this, and as lifting a 100-120 pound robot is no short of a challenge, this may take some time. But we have to ask ourselves something, do we just want to specify the standard coupler? or should we go further and specify the position, and ways of lifting the other robot.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

I had this same idea earlier. I think it makes sense just to have a design for the liftee end of it, and then that team can decide if they trust the other team's mechanism in each match.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

I am in total agreement, I actually was going to start a thread about it, but you beat me to it;)

We all need to be able to carry a bot though so we could get the most points of 60. Requiring a lift of 300 lbs...unless you can use hydrolics and lift itself off the team that is picking it up. Many ideas that need to be dicussed, and desided on with every team! Lets all be one big team, and work as a functioning machine together:)

Also a question, if our robot touches the intertube at the end of a match, lets say on top of it, would it count as off the ground?

Good luck to everyone!!

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

I agree with you guys, a standard will greatly allieviate the challenge of lifting 100+ pound robots, but the implementation of the standard will be a challenge in itself!

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

If they use the same general ruling for "hanging" as they did in the Vex Challange, then the answer would be yes. As long as you were not phyically touching the floor you received the points. leaning on the posts or other robots was accepted.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

No, you can't contact field elements or the driver station. Only other robots.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

Good idea guys, one enormous problem you are all over looking. WEIGHT, Complexity of a latch of that type, and where the location of this latch would be on both robots. Also there are ways to lift the robot(s) using a smooth motion without much strain on the mechanics, so if done properly there is no need for a locking latch.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

it sounds like a fantastic idea... but i dont know if i like it. i mean, what would we do if neither team in our alliance followed the standard? This solution is pretty much an all-or-none sort of thing- it only works if everyone participates.

We are just trying to come up with an assumes standard that makes use of what we can trust that every robot will have.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

My captain and I have been bouncing ideas off of each other for a few hours, and if any of them succeed, getting the full 60 points should be relatively easy. The simplest way to determine if your robot could possibly get off the ground is if it would be able to climb a ramp, similar to the one in last year's competition. I can't exactly go into details about how it works (the specifics are yet undetermined), but I'll see what I can do once we've worked out some preliminary designs on paper and in Inventor.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

You really wont have much luck with this, look at the teams that have replied, they are from all over. The odds of you getting more than a team or two at you regional to adopt this plan are very slim. You would be much better off trying to develop a universal method to lift any robot you are assigned to work with. It is much easier for your one team to figure out a way to adapt to every one else that it is to get every other team to adopt one design. YOur idea is great in theory but I don't see it working in reality

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

If you were planning on latching onto something, I'd suggest making it latch onto some sort of simple bar. Then bringing a bunch of those bars to your regional, and offering them to every single team who has the weight to put them on.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

Great idea guys! I have a question though: if a robot were to lift an alliance member by pushing up from below would this still count for the points? I was wondering because you have all seemed to be concentrating on lifting from above. I believe that pushing up from below would greatly simplify the problem.



-Gerb4L

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

Yeah.. USBCD36....

Our team also like the idea of a ramp/platform soultion. Let's fact it, all the bots will have the ability to move... If we could get some standardization on minimal ramp climbing ability/clearance requirements we could get some cool cooperative alliances.

A 4" platform with a short ramp seems more universally achievable than a 12" platform, which would need a much longer ramp for many bots. But, we do have the ability to specify a much more grippy ramp material, so it could be made easier than last year's ramp.

I see a new scouting class distinction here: Are you a Lifter or a Ramper?

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

What if instead of making a universal latch, for all teams, wouldn't it be better if the teams that planned on specifically lifting robots to make a set of their own latches? Then they could instruct teams on where to place them. With this in mind, i think each team should make sure that their robot is 1/2 - 1 lb underweight (lol, like that would ever happen), so that if they are paired up with a lifter, then it would be much easier to work within the rules.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

Well our team decided how to lift the robot from the bottom and believe it or not the solution to this is seen at every regional event, as well as in every single car in the united states.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

Also, there is no need for a latch. If you can make your lifting bot lift the alliance member in a smooth motion then you will not have to have a latch. the weight of the robot will be enough to hold him on you lifting surface, and if anything else the other team can thrust forward in order to keep the robot tight on your lifting plane.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

It was easy just after kickoff, with that crazy image from the animation in our minds, to immediately think of a latch. Some kinda ramp may end up being much more versatile, maybe one which raises to horizontal after the robot has driven onto it.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

Aha! But a ramp that can lift 240lbs? (2x120lb robots in theory)

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

I agree, lifting from below would be mechanically simpler, since you could get leverage directly off the ground. You need to distribute the lift so the other robot stays ballanced (maybe 3 or 4 lift points).

All the rules say is the the lowest point of the other robot must be 4+ or 12+" off the ground.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

lol i had exact same idea :yikes: its the simplest and yet it would work with any robot that moves without additional requirements.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

I wasn't thinking of it being nearly as steep as the ramps were last year, since most robots with center wheel drive couldn't get up. One of my team members calculated that the simplest ramp to make would have about an 18° slope. Is that reasonable for most 'bots?

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

An arm would do better?

Someone just say it so it's out in the thread for discussion.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

Or even as high as ~300#?

[120# + 13# (battery) + 15# (bumpers)]*2 = 296#

I think we will probably see more ramps than arms...can you imagine a robot trying to lift another robot and seeing it tip over? I'm positive (and hopeful) that teams would think about such a scenario beforehand, but I don't see going through all the trouble when a ramp is easier to build.

Re: Universal Robot Connector
 

Way back in '02, we had three goals to play with. each weighed over 200 lbs and there were several robots that would lift two. Of course that was only to transfer the weight to your wheels for traction so we didn't have to go quite so high, but it is doable. It is only a matter of how long you want to take

ChrisH