2007 Motor Specs
 

This thread is for people to post specs of the 2007 motors.

New motors: the two banebots motors. spec spec spec!

I'm off to work spec-ing them up, will post.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Banebots RS-540 motor

Nominal v: 12v, No Load RPM: 16800, Stall Current: 42A
Kt: 0.94 oz-in/A, Kv: 1400 rpm/V, Efficiency: 71%

more info here

Motor Specifications

Performance
Operating v : 4.5v - 12v
Nominal v : 12v
No Load RPM : 16800
No Load A : 1A
Stall Torque : 39.48 oz-in 278.8 mN-m
Stall Current : 42A
Kt : 0.94 oz-in/A 6.6 mN-m/A
Kv : 1400 rpm/V
Efficiency : 71%
RPM - Peak Eff : 14525
Current - Peak Eff : 6.6A

Physical
Weight : 5.4 oz (153g)
Length - for motor : 1.97 in (50mm)
Diameter : 1.41 in (35.8mm)
ShaftDiameter : 0.12 in (3.2mm)
Shaft Length : 0.3 in (7.6mm)
Mounting Screws (2) M3



Banebots has added a link on their home page for FIRST teams, which goes straight to the parts included in the KOP.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Looking at <R27> in section 8.3.4 leads me to believe that once again we have a different fisher price motor to spec out this year, unless its the same as the one we had two years ago because it says If it is the same as 2005 does anyone still have the specs laying around?

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

We are back at it again. It does not look like FIRST has published the FP motor specs this year. I have searched through all my previous posts (back to 2002) and checked all the FP motor specs I have published in the past. This year's motor is different from the 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006 motors.

One thing is certain: the motor is made by Johnson Electric. That is good news since I should be able to get the data from JE this week. Our gear on the motor is 19 teeth, but I do not know if everyone's is the same. I will post to this thread when I get the motor data.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Does anyone know the motor specs on the Keyang Motor?

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Are we going to get power/rpm/ current curves on these RS-540 motors as we have in the past with new motors in the kit, or do we have to estimate it ourselves?

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

I think the information you're looking for is available on the Banebots website.

The gearmotors specs. can be found here: http://www.banebots.com/pc/MP-36XXX-540/MP-36064-540

The motor specs. without the gearbox are here:
http://www.banebots.com/p/M2-RS540-120

They don't have the curves themselves, but there's at least some information available.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

There is some info on the banebots site, but not the actual power information I'd like. Of course, if I get a little more ambitious, I can calculate a good approximation of what I'm looking for. I'd like to know the maximum power in watts or horsepower that the motor produces.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Power (output) it torque times speed. Well... Watts = N-m * radians/sec. or = N-m * RPM/60*2*pi.

RPM decreases linearly from no load speed at ... no load, to zero at stall. Thus, max power is always at half the no load speed.

Thus, Max power for the RS540 is ~122W.
The RS 545 is 108W.

This is, of course, highly approximate. But you really should be designing below Max power anyways, right?

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

This is the Fisher-Price 00968-9012, one of the RS-550 Johnson motors allowed (but not supplied to all teams) in 2006. The 9003 (largely equivalent, and also supplied to some teams in 2006) is not legal. FIRST's 2006 spec sheet is here. To identify the number of gear teeth on the motor pinion, without disassembling it, examine the injection-moulded plastic gear housing, and look for a small number 19 (or 16, or 20) on the side. 188 received 19-tooth-compatible gear reducers.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Thanks for doing the calculation for me. Yes, we design for well below peak power (motor running maybe 75-80 % of no-load rpm) except for an occasional few seconds of "extreme" operation near its power peak. Most of our motors will have a very short service life if run at their power peak.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Would it be legal to buy 2 extra 56mm Planetary Gearbox, 12:1? The same one included in the KOP?


Also, how much do these gearboxes weigh?

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Perfectly legal. It's COTS item offered by BaneBots and it costs less than $400. Well. Perfectly legal as long as you still stay under your $3500 limit.

EDIT: I weighed them in at around 2.5 lbs apiece last night. The only scale I had was a bit nutty, so YMMV by +/- .25 lbs.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Thanks! Does that weight include the CIM? If not what is the mass of the CIM motors?

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

They're about 2.5 lbs. without the motors. The motors themselves are about another 2.5 lbs. each, as I recall.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Thanks! I am just surprised they didn't give the dimensions and weight of the gearbox.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

I calculated the theoretical speed/torque/power curve for the RS-540. I would post a graph here, but right now all i have available is open office.org which isn't very good at drawing the graph scales the way i want it to. I can export it to xls or csv or something though.

It may not be exact but should be pretty close.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Where did you get these numbers? You tested the motor?

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

No, they are a purely theoretical APPROXIMATION based on the Kt, Kv and stall current posted on the bane-bots website.

They are based on a model which works pretty well for DC motors in which torque is porportional to current and back emf is porportional to motor rpm. This model does not take into account inductive effects or internal bearing resistance of the motor.

Kt is a constant of porportionality relating motor output torque to electrical current input.
Kv is a constant which relates the rotational speed of the shaft to the voltage generated by the motor.

torque = I*Kt
Induced back emf(voltage created by the motor) = shaft speed * Kv
r= internal resistance of the motor = supply voltage/stall current.

combine these three and you get
torque = Kt*(Vin-Kv*rpm)/r

then for mechanical power in a rotating system we have
power = speed * torque
so
power = rpm*Kt(Vin-Kv*rpm)/r

sorry ,that was a Terrible explanation, but its 3:29 am and i'm tired.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Does anyone know if there are any regulations against buying more (12:1) BaneBot CIM Gearboxes? Would it be FIRST Legal to have 4 BaneBot Gearboxes? I can't find the rule to back this up.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

They would be considered under rules governing COTS MECHANISMS and are legal to use.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

So does anyone know if the Denso window motor is the same as last years window motor? Also, does anyone know where to get the spec sheets for the older style Keyang left/right hand motors? Thanks

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Hey i need some help, im part of a 1st year rookie team and we need to find out the specs on all the motors. anyone who can help would have our extreme Gratitude!

Andrew

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

On the FIRST.ORG site under the Team Documents section there is a link to a Guidlines and Best Practices file. In that file it lists all of the free speeds, stall torques, and max power ratings as well as some other key information for the motors in the kit.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

thanks abunch!!

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

www.usfirst.org actually

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Does anyone happen to know specs on the pinion gear attached to the Keyang motor? Based on the outside diameter, I was able to figure out that it appears to be a 12 DP gear. If someone could verify this for me that would be great. But now that leaves the question of what pressure angle the gear is... does anyone know?

Also, as far as I can tell, this is very similar, if not equal to the Keyang model PWM-60B.
http://www.keyang.co.kr/english/prod..._code=E0201004

The torque curve data also matches up with what FIRST has published.

So pretty much, does anyone know the pressure angle of this pinion gear? If we knew then everyone could use it without the included plastic coupler and without making a custom coupler. Thanks.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

does anyone know where where I can get drawings/CAD/specs of the planetary gearboxes of the RS-540 motor? bane doesnt have it, neither does firstcadlibrary...it doesnt matter what ratio

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

More Specifically, we need the dimensions of the placement of the #10-32 holes on the face of the planetaries. We have measured with calipers, but our values are kind of fuzzy and don't make sense to me. I'd like an official drawing or cad if there is one. I'll email baneots tonight I guess.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

i found a really good old thread...it has the specs from last year which are most of the motors from this years comp.

its www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/1895

i also looked through more and found some from this year for mabuchi and for the newer fisher price

its www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/1384

if anyone has anything else, id love to have it!!

thanks!

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

We have posted drawings of the 36mm and 42mm gearboxes on our website. You can find a link to them at the bottom of the product descriptions.

BaneBots

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Earlier, Rickertsen2 posted a formula for motor output torque using these calculated values:

torque = Kt*(Vin-Kv*rpm)/r

Does anyone know if there is there an advantage to using this formula over:

Torque = (-T0/Wf)*W+T0, Where T0 is torque at stall and Wf is free speed

If so, is there more documentation somewhere that explains how/why this works better?

Thank you,
Chris

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

The equation using torque constant (Kt) and back EMF constant (Kv) is the theoretically pure way to calculate motor performance. However, most motor manufacturers will not give you all of these numbers. All motor manufacturers will give you stall T, free speed, Stall current, and free current (no load current) and it is all you need to size motors and gearboxes for the job.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Thank you for the help. Now that my curiousity is satisfied, I think it's time for bed.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Does anyone have the specs for the window motor or more importantly the connector for the window motor? Or if someone can tell me how do I hook up a window motor, that would be highly appreciated. :)

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Go to the following link for the motor specs:

http://www2.usfirst.org/2007comp/oth...tices_RevA.pdf

The motor specs are on page 8.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

I don't know the specs on the connector, but here's how we've done it in the past and it works just fine (I'll probably get kicked out of the junior EE club for these instructions):

Using a hacksaw or coping saw, cut the plastic housing of the connector back to the bottom of the socket, and then cut it lengthwise between the two conductor pins and basically break the plastic away. This will leave you the 2 pins which are about a half inch long sticking out. Solder your power wires to these 2 pins and wrap with electrical tape.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

The way Gary explained it, it will work. To make your life easier, there are connectors that comes in the KOP for the window motors. You can use those.

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

i've found that a lot of the motor specs are on the respective companiess pages. If you can't find what you need, try looking there. I've found it very helpful!

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

stupid question:
I was trying to find the connectors for the banebot motor does anyone has a website ???
thanks
natalia

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

Hello,
I just registered to cheif delphi, so i am new at using this site.
I hope i am doing this right.
Anyway, does anybody know what kind of what kind of motors can we use for the robot?
Can we use a motor from power drill?

Re: 2007 Motor Specs
 

You can use the motors in the kit plus two additional small CIM's and one additional large CIM.