Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

I'm just curious... if you were an alliance captain, would you choose a good team with a yellow card or an average team that hasn't gotten yellow carded first?

I'd personally prefer the average team because I'd rather not have an alliance partner that could be shut down any second.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

I'd say depends on who it is and what they got it for. I figure if we all just decorate our robots in an abundance of yellow flags there will be no problems.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

Your yellow cards are reset at eliminations.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

Interesting question, and I apologize for advance for not reading the rules yet, and I usually don't do that but.. I am assuming since you are asking this flag status does NOT reset during the finals?

Edit: I think Adam answered my question nicely. lol

Looks like this thread is not even needed. But if you know a status when they are in the Ranking periods, it would help determine a good partner in the finals and help you avoid ones that are more agresssive than you are comfortable working with.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

In a second. alot of the best teams will get yellow cards. If a team is good enough to get picked then I don't care if they have a yellow flag stuck in there bot. Even the best team can get a yellow card, there are always weird things that happen on the field. In my opinion the I pick the bot that best fits my strategy no matter what

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

To me the card means nothing besides the fact that that team is a) agressive, and b) that that team is willing to do what it takes to win. Although that team took it over the line once doesn't mean they will do it again, and they would at least have a breifing if I had picked them and noticed rough contact in other matches that the refs did not call.

Pavan.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

I believe that their abilities will determine. Good scouting allows you to know the team and how they can help or hinder your alliance, not a yellow flag.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

My view is like this: If Redateam is an appealing team to our strategy, but has a yellow flag, is there any other team at the competition that has that the same or better capability that doesn't have a yellow flag? If so, pick that other team. If not, pick Redateam.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

I think it's important to look at
a) when they received that yellow flag. If it was one of their first matches, have they done anything to improve since then? Have they become less aggressive and accomplished their strategy another way?
b) Did getting a yellow flag completely eliminate their entire strategy?

I personally think it's less about the flag and more about how the team WORKS with the flag. So I will say, yes, I would absolutely be willing to pick a team that has a yellow flag for elimination rounds.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

The driver would be the problem. If the team's driver gets the team a yellow card, they can void his "license" to drive and have another person take their spot the rest of the competition. Once the elimination rounds reset the cards, I still wouldn't take the chance with that driver, because tension will be higher than in regular matches and they could do unthinkable things in response to the pressure.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

I would have to say it depends heavilly on how they got the yellow card. If it was a mistake or something that wasn't completely intentional, i would have no problem picking the team. However, if the team had been harassing other robots and finally got the yellow card they deserve, even if that robot has what our alliance needs to win if the possibility of them getting easilly red-carded remains, i'd rather be safe than sorry.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

It's going to be hard to get a yellow card on accident, in my opinion. If you get it, you're going to deserve it, and it may be a sign of teams that are continually too aggressive, rather than just doing something wrong in one match.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

i would pick up a yellow-carded team because I according to the rules the status of the card is reset

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

I think if a team has a yellow card, that shows their aggressiveness in playing the game. Others may disagree, but I think that is another criteria to consider when picking teams.

Getting a yellow card to me shows that a team is willing to push their limits and test just how far they can go.

I'm not saying that I'm in favor of teams being aggressive or anything of that sort, and I think that if a team got a red card, then it would be a completely different story.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

1625 got a yellow card at IRI 2006 (IRI has used them at least since 2004, when I first attended) during the qualification matches. 71 picked them to join their 5th seeded alliance. That alliance went on to win IRI.
Also, I believe that yellow cards carried over between qualification and elimination matches at IRI, and they don't during official FIRST events, which would make a yellow card team more appealing.
If a team has received one (or more) red cards, it may be a different situation.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

hmm...i would personally choose the good yellow card team since that could indicate that the team gives vigorous effots during the game.

Depends on the situation, but generally, probably the good team

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

I am a HUGE fan of gracious professionalism. I always brag to my friends here (lacking a first team but trying to start one... next year...) that first is like a football match.... only rather than people beating each other up they’re sharing ideas and making friends.... but on the field.... its competitive (often times I may add that its robots beating each other up, then backtrack and say but its really bad to do that, you should in no way injure someone else’s robot because that’s.... mean ... for lack of a better word, and not gracious professional… but that’s intentional damage… My worry is that some matches may loose their full potential excitement because of the yellow card rule. The thought that came to mind is what exactly is considered "aggressive behavior"? Have seen some incredibly exciting matches where there will be an incredibly aggressive defense... how many robots last year fell over due to that ramp thing.... and it added excitement. Don’t get me wrong though I know quite well FIRST IS NOT BATTLE BOTS... ITS COOLER!!!! But as a soon to be rookie team, will pushing harshly… playing a powerhouse defense get you a yellow card, what if they get pushed into a corner and you pin them for a bit (not the whole game.) or in pushing you get pinned somehow… though it’s a bit harder to do that in this challenge than last year… I saw many a bot get stuck in that 1-point goal corner. I don’t like too much aggression like purposefully pushing down a robot…. But would an accidentally causing the robot to fall turn into “aggressive defense” … course…. What is “accidental” will exciting push matches be lost… and what will rookie teams that can only build a pusher do? Just ideas … and I do like the rule…

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

In the end it worked out for them, but I wonder if the real question is "Would they have been picked by a higher-seeded alliance otherwise?" Of course we can't know the answer to that.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

In 2004, 71 seeded #1 at IRI and 980 seeded #2. 980 had a yellow card from qualifying, but was picked by #71. We joined the alliance as the 3rd team and ended up winning after some hard fought matches, including winning one where an opposing team who had a previous yellow card was called on it again and automatically DQ'd.

After IRI that year there was a discussion on here about the card system, and I wrote:

And John VN replied with a statement that I strongly agree with:

I think it wouldn't be so bad a thing if cards carried to eliminations. Food for thought.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

here is my opinion on the card system

it's great for the qualifying matches. but PLEASE, don't use them for the Elimination rounds

thats the only thing i really don't like.

Whats more exciting than watching two robots going at it in a aggressive pushing match go get posission for a spoiler with 30 seconds left in the match. in finals 1:3 of the nationals where both teams get a red card.

This rule will really rui some teams that are known for playing aggressive,

thats besides the point, anyways, i would pick the yellow card team because i know that they are willing to push people around, and that they CAN do it if need be.

Offence brings the crowds, but defense wins championships

it seems that FIRST is nibbleing off the defense aspect of the games lately. (ie: no wedges last year, and a card system this year. im not saying FIRST is doing anything wrong, im just saying that the game might not be as exciting to watch as it used to be in the final matches.)

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

There's a difference between being defensive and being overly aggressive, this isn't battlebots :P.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

As a driver at IRI i don't recall having ever received a yellow card or physically having a drivetrain capable of being agressive enough(we had 2 cims at 8fps)
our robot couldn't push a kiwi drive let alone be agressively driven. plus our strategy was pure offense.

just a correction for the reputation of my team

aren

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

I think that the card system does nothing more than give a visual indication of things already practiced. It will make the offending teams more paranoid yes, but I would guess that the yellow card system will be used about as much as warning a team of overagressiveness in the past.

In previous years, you would always be weary of teams who you knew were a danger to get DQed in a round. But one stray warning woudln't really make much of a difference.

In other words...a yellow card on a team wouldn't stop me from selecting them at all. If a team has been red carded...well, now we are talking about a possible problem.

I do applaud the yellow/red card system and FIRST's effort to clarify rules on hitting and wedge bots this year. Now maybe there will not be such a grey area.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

The yellow card was given to both 1625 and 234 after a Qualifying match. 116 had lined up a defensive block against 234 and a pushing match began. 1625 came in behind 234, and added your pushing power to the fray (as you either couldn't, or didn't feel comfortable shooting over 234).
(116 is behind 910 in this picture)

This lasted for a few seconds, before 234 somehow managed to get underneath 116's wheels, and when driving forward, caused 116 to tip backwards.


While this call was certainly borderline (even I felt so, as 116's coach), especially for 1625, both 234 and 1625 did receive yellow cards.

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

if we received a yellow card shouldn't we be notified? in some way shape or form? plus as a driver this year i either planted our foot and sat there or ran away our strategy has never had pushing involved. plus the only reason we'd have been behind 234 is if there was balls to be collected or setting up to shoot

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

It was announced over the PA after the match ended. You may have been setting up to shoot, and as you can see in the picture, you opened fire as we tipped. Perhaps until we tipped, you had been out of range? (after you joined, and until 116 tipped, the 3 robots basically didn't move at all, the pushing power was that close)

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

our shooting range was easily that distance and its a good bet we were setting up to shoot. which may have just been misunderstood as us pushing. which the only time we tried to push was when we were stuck in a corner (if you want an unsuccessful attempt example check this match we were in the corner the entire time (http://www.soap.circuitrunners.com/2006/movies/galileo/ match 17)
and if you notice were still in the same spot

Re: Would you pick a yellow-carded team for playoffs?
 

Lets keep this to discussion of this year's card system, keep the IRI events in PM's or IM's. Thanks.