Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

If you exceed the 72 x 72 envelope outside your home zone, what is the penalty? DQ? I don't see it anywhere. Suppose you are deployed > 72 x 72 in your home zone and you get pushed out by the other alliance, same penalty? If it's DQ, sounds like a possible strategy.

I'm submitting this to Q&A, just thought I'd get CD reaction.

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

I suspect it is the sort of thing that would be checked out during tech inspection just as all other sizes and weights are. It would be extremely difficult to take a measurement of maximum extension during a match.

Or perhaps it will be a situation where you will only be checked in detail if it appears to the refs that you might be close to exceeding the expanded size limits... in which case, I suspect, you would not be allowed to compete until you had modified the robot in such a way that it could no longer exceed the 72" limit.

But that is probably a good question for the GDC on the FIRST Forums.

Jason

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

The problem with this is that there are some cases (specifically, when you are in the home zone) where you can exceed 72x72. Just because you exceed those dimensions during inspection doesn't mean that you will do so when it's illegal. That's what makes this rule somewhat harder to enforce than, say, the ball speed limit from last year.

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

That was the point of the question - you can legally exceed 72 x 72 this year, but only in the home zone. But if you deploy before you get there, or you leave the home zone, or you get pushed out of the home zone, what is the penalty? It doesn't say. If it's a DQ, that's pretty major.

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

I think this rule can only be enforced if it is a gross and obvious violation of the rule. And in that scenario, if intentional (probably not being pushed out of zone, etc), you would probably be forced to modify your robot before being allowed to compete again. Similar to the the ball speed limit last year.

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

That makes sense, but what about this scenario: You design your robot so that you can push your ramp under your alliance partners if they are stuck. If you cross out of the home zone while doing that, is that gross and obvious? If you do it once? If you do it 3-4 times? With the ball speed, you were never allowed to exceed the speed limit; in this game it's not that fact that you exceed the envelope, it's the fact that you left the home zone.

My guess is that crossing the home zone really does not violate the intent of the rule, which is to limit robot size as you're driving around the field.

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

if the opposing team pushes you out, the referees will definitely not call a DQ on you. Kind of like if a team intentionally drives up onto your ramp, and tips themselves over. If your team didn't move, then there would be no way that you could be DQed for being a ramp.

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

Says who? Common sense says yes, refs may say no (on the last part--teams driving up ramps to tip over). It's happened before.

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

Probably depends on timing if you do it within the End Game on the way home they probably won't penalize you at all but if you unfold at the start and go the whole game then they decide to checkit might be a DQ and possibly force you to modify the robot

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

I didn't see the following question posed in the FIRST Q&A:

What is the penalty for unintentionally exceeding the 72"x72" limitation?
(i.e. early deployment of ramps outside of the home zone - either via interaction with other robots or operator error)

If the result is a DQ, then "wide body" robots might want to stay in the home zone for the entire match!

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

Is this posted there or not? I couldn't find it... and it's a question that needs to be asked...

At the same time, a clearer definition of "PLAYING CONFIGURATION" needs to be requested as well. Is it a different playing configuration at every point in the movement of an arm that might exceed the 72" square?

If you're using a narrow arm that's centered on your robot and gets penalized, could you argue that by rotating the square 45º, your robot fits within THAT square?:rolleyes:

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

I asked the question in Q&A; the response has not been posted yet.

The question about fitting diagonally into the 72 x 72 envelope has already been asked and answered in Q&A. Orientation does not matter, so yes a narrow arm plus your robot length can exceed 72 inches. (and I'm using every inch of that diagonal - another benefit of the octagonal frame which allows you to sit farther back in the diagonal).

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

This is mere speculation, but common sense would dictate that an opposing team trying to drive up your ramp while in your home zone would likely be interpreted as a violation of <G35>:
If an opponent deliberately tried to climb you while stationary, I would expect you not to be penalized, and that the opponent might even receive a penalty or DQ. (Eric, I know that this unfortunately was not always the case, particularly for your team in 2005.)

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

If any part of your robot crosses the home zone line, then you are out of the home zone and must stay within the 72" X 72" restrictions. If you are pushed by an opposing robot, home zone violations are not counted as long as you make a visible attempt to either enter your own home zone or leave the opponent's home zone.

Re: Exceeding 72 x 72 - Penalty?
 

There are several "What If" scenarios where the robots will pass inspection but may violate one of the size or wedge rules. The inspectors will only look at the starting configuration to verify the dimensions and the robot meets the wedge rules. But when it comes to arms, ramps etc…, the inspectors cannot know when they will be used during the match. If there is a potential for a rules violation, the inspector may notify the teams but the robots will pass inspection.

There is no obvious answer to the original question. I would keep an eye on the Q&A board for updates.