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-   -   When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll) (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52022)

astephen68 16-01-2007 15:53

When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
When do you think you will bring out your ringer?

TravisE 16-01-2007 16:07

Re: Poll
 
at the last 30 seconds because that gives the other allience less time to move it especially if the are yousing ramps ecause the ramps will slow them down

Ian S. 16-01-2007 16:49

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
The last 30 seconds would make the most sense because most of the ringers if any will be on the rack by then, and you can find the best place to cancel out a row/column and also a good percentage of teams will be rushing to their home zone by then, so why not?

BobBoJanglez 16-01-2007 17:25

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Anytime during the game we will use the spoilers our bot is offense and defense. If you have a row of 8 then you might not want to bring spoilers out at all because some bots should be able to take spoilers off of there scores and put it on to youre's ruining your row.

Ericgehrken 16-01-2007 17:29

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Why not place them at the end when everyone else is trying to race to the homezone and lift or be lifted? Then it's an open field.

astephen68 16-01-2007 18:55

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Some teams might do that also. SO maybe it could be difficult!!!!!!!

Agent 108 16-01-2007 19:00

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
I think it's best to place the spoilers at the last 30 sec. of the game so the opposing alliance won't have a lot of time to react and get the bonus pionts.

astephen68 16-01-2007 19:41

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Yeah thats true.

MattLi 16-01-2007 20:03

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
I don't think the spoilers will see much action until the last minute-30 seconds. Placing a spoiler at any time before that mark just wouldn't be the best idea. When you have a lot of time the best thing to do is to get (your color) ringers onto the spiderlegs. This way by the end of the game you have a lot of spider legs "controled." The spoilers can always be taken off so I suspect that spoiler playing is going to be reserved for endgame.

astephen68 16-01-2007 20:16

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
I think they might come out during the middle espically the teams who are trying to get the extra 15-30 points at the end!

Agent 108 16-01-2007 20:46

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
That's true, but if you put out the spoilers at the end and ruin their chance of getting high scores, to react they would have to drop others off, losing valueable points, while we're stacking up to get bonus points!

astephen68 16-01-2007 21:13

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Yeah Thats true and would work for the teams who are going for the points but what about the alliances that can't do that would you have a different stragergy?

Gabe 16-01-2007 21:13

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
My tactic would to place it at the beginning of the match only if you are ahead in points. The idea is to place the spoilers and then cover then with a ringer, so that the spoiler cannot be removed. That assures that your opponent cannot use the spoilers at the end of the match to break up your rows and columns which you worked so hard to score and defend. Remember, if your ringer is over a spoiler not only can the spoiler not be removed, the ringer on top counts for points. Spoilers are your friend if you're losing but your enemy if you're winning.

astephen68 16-01-2007 21:17

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
That is very true and a good idea but that would be a waste of a spoiler isn't it?

JamesBrown 16-01-2007 21:22

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe (Post 558514)
My tactic would to place it at the beginning of the match only if you are ahead in points. The idea is to place the spoilers and then cover then with a ringer, so that the spoiler cannot be removed. That assures that your opponent cannot use the spoilers at the end of the match to break up your rows and columns which you worked so hard to score and defend. Remember, if your ringer is over a spoiler not only can the spoiler not be removed, the ringer on top counts for points. Spoilers are your friend if you're losing but your enemy if you're winning.

At best you could garuntee yourself 2 ringers, it seems you would be better off leaving your spoilers off the field and instead scoring more ringers.

My opinion is that it doesn't makes sense to use them any time other than the end, how can you strategically break up the other alliances rows if they haven't had time to score them?

Agent 108 16-01-2007 21:22

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Yes, but it still prevents your enemy from using it. And unless I have read the rules wrong, it seems to me that if you need the spoiler, you can take your ringer off, move the spoiler to a better position, and replace the ringer.

astephen68 16-01-2007 22:35

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
It depends on your robot, if your robot can lift teammates up at the end then go for the extra 15 points but at the end of the game or the last 15 seconds anyways teams arn't alould to go to their opponets homebase side, I read.... So you can't intefere with the lifting the robot up part so it'll be hard to put a spoiler on if the opposite side your not alould to go on!!!!

Agent 108 17-01-2007 17:09

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
But you can get any on your side!:cool:

Zoheb N 17-01-2007 17:31

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
I have a question for all of you that reply with you will be puttin spoilers in the last 30 seconds.

Will you guys be trying to get back to the homezone and lifted? Are you gong to be playing defense?

astephen68 17-01-2007 17:53

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
One thing for Defense in the Rules they state in the lats 15 seconds you are not alould to go to opponet's homezone, so you really couldn't play defense in the last 30 seconds and for the lifting part some teams might go for the extra 15, 30 points or the team might place Spoilers you'll never know till compitition.

J23t 17-01-2007 18:30

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
im not entirely sure what we are doing, but i think that we plan on placing ringers in the ending half of the match

EricH 17-01-2007 18:52

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 108 (Post 558526)
Yes, but it still prevents your enemy from using it. And unless I have read the rules wrong, it seems to me that if you need the spoiler, you can take your ringer off, move the spoiler to a better position, and replace the ringer.

Reread them. You're descoring a ringer (not sure if doing it to yourself is a penalty, but opponents would get the penalty if they did it).

Eric W. Jones 17-01-2007 19:25

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 108 (Post 558526)
Yes, but it still prevents your enemy from using it. And unless I have read the rules wrong, it seems to me that if you need the spoiler, you can take your ringer off, move the spoiler to a better position, and replace the ringer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 559161)
Reread them. You're descoring a ringer (not sure if doing it to yourself is a penalty, but opponents would get the penalty if they did it).

Quote:

<G20> De-scoring - ROBOTS may not remove RINGERS or KEEPERS once they are HANGING. If a RINGER or KEEPER is moved out of a HANGING configuration after the POSSESSING ROBOT has released it, it is still considered HANGING. If a ROBOT incidentally removes a RINGER or KEEPER from the SPIDER LEG on which it was HANGING (e.g. knocks it off while placing another GAME PIECE), a 10-point penalty will be assessed. Obviously intentional removal of a RINGER or KEEPER will result in a disqualification of the offending
team.
You cannot intentionally remove a ringer or keeper. Doing so will result in the disqualification of your team.

astephen68 17-01-2007 21:29

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J23t (Post 559138)
im not entirely sure what we are doing, but i think that we plan on placing ringers in the ending half of the match

Ringers at the end. That doesn't make sense though because how are you going to score at hte end if all the spots are taken up. You shoul d score ringers as fast as possible and then focus on moving ringers!!!!

Dan_Karol 17-01-2007 21:57

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
I am planning on putting the spoilers into play either at the end of the game or in the beginning.

I'm planning on bringing them out at the end of the game and placing them on a particularly valuable spider foot and guarding that foot until the end of the match. This would assume that my alliance won’t include my robot in the end of the match levitation trick.

I'm planning on bringing them out at the beginning of the match when my team is going to participate in the levitation act at the end of the match. The plan is to put them on an empty spider's foot and then placing one of my team's ringers over it to get a "virtual" keeper. if all three of my team's alliance robots place their keepers at the beginning of the match that can give us a line of 5 keepers for a total of 32 untouchable points PLUS what we decide to place on the ends of that line in the middle of the match
:cool:

astephen68 17-01-2007 22:55

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
I don't think three ringers/ spoilers/keepers can fit on a rack at a time because in Autonomous mode the keepers could be their too so that would make 4 on a rack. I don't think you can fight four of thoose things on!! :)

EricH 17-01-2007 23:00

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by astephen68 (Post 559443)
I don't think three ringers/ spoilers/keepers can fit on a rack at a time because in Autonomous mode the keepers could be their too so that would make 4 on a rack. I don't think you can fight four of thoose things on!! :)

You can't get more than 2 on one spider leg at a time, hence the "bonus keeper" tactic. Put spoiler on, put ringer on on top of it. If anything is descored, it's yours. This is a "bonus keeper" because nothing can go on top of it.

jackie Ha 17-01-2007 23:38

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
if most teams plan to place ringers in the last 30 seconds, that leaves 2 minutes for the other alliance to score. you could play defense those 2 minutes, but that doesnt will not prevent scoring and by the end of those 2 minutes, not many those spider legs will be left. i believe that the last 30 seconds is when the spoilers should be place and replaced if that is the case.

astephen68 18-01-2007 20:14

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Yes but scoring beofre the match would be good but when the team thinks they have the game won at the last minute when they are going up for the lift you put a spoiler on there best row thats getting them points and then ruin what they have got and put your team ahead!

Agent 108 18-01-2007 20:25

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
How's this for an idea? How about you wait 'till they put out their spoilers, and after they made themselves nice and stacked up to run out and rip off all the spoilers of of your ringers and throw them towards your side and run home?

astephen68 18-01-2007 22:38

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
That could work but arn't you only allow to move the spoilers to another rack not put it away somewhere?

Eric W. Jones 20-01-2007 09:34

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by astephen68 (Post 560102)
That could work but arn't you only allow to move the spoilers to another rack not put it away somewhere?

Quote:

<G18> Removing SPOILERS - SPOILERS that are HANGING may be removed from the RACK by either ALLIANCE. Any RINGERS and SPIDER LEGS “unspoiled” by the removal of the SPOILER will then be evaluated as if they had never been “spoiled” when the final match score is determined. SPOILERS removed from the RACK are fully in play, and may be placed in any other legal position on the RACK.
The rule states that they can be placed in another position on the rack, not that they have to be.

astephen68 20-01-2007 16:15

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Oh ok. Can they purposely be thrown out of the ring?

Imprudent 20-01-2007 16:32

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
They can, but they will be placed back on the field as soon as it is determined safe, in the appx. spot from which they were thrown out. It would give you a few seconds advantage, but wouldn't you rather keep them and use them to your advantage?

Barry Bonzack 21-01-2007 18:43

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
While team A takes the time to place a Spoiler on an empty leg and a Ringer over it, the team B can score two Ringers in the same amount of time on separate legs. In the first scenario, team A has a total of two points, team B has four. Even though either one of Team B's Ringers can be spoiled, team A would then have to take the time go spoil it.

I suggest strategic placing of ringers that does not allow rows larger than 3 or 4. Even if this means scoring in diagonals, it will take Spoiler strategies out of the equation.

astephen68 27-01-2007 20:14

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
True, True

akshar 29-01-2007 15:11

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by astephen68 (Post 559107)
One thing for Defense in the Rules they state in the lats 15 seconds you are not alould to go to opponet's homezone, so you really couldn't play defense in the last 30 seconds and for the lifting part some teams might go for the extra 15, 30 points or the team might place Spoilers you'll never know till compitition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rule <G03>
END GAME - The final 15 seconds of the TELEOPERATED PERIOD is called the END GAME. During this period, no ROBOT may be in an opposing ALLIANCE HOME ZONE. The intent of this period is to permit ALLIANCES to attempt to score bonus points without
undue interference. An audio signal will sound five seconds before the start of the END GAME period, and again at the start of the END GAME period.

Since the Home zone is defined as the 8 feet from the alliance wall outwards, you still have the distance from the Home zone to the rack, on the opposing Alliance side, to play defense. You wouldn't be in the home zone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Bonzack (Post 562041)
I suggest strategic placing of ringers that does not allow rows larger than 3 or 4. Even if this means scoring in diagonals, it will take Spoiler strategies out of the equation.

If you take a look at <G54> you can only score in a horizontal or vertical direction. So you wouldnt be able to make a row in a diagonal direction.


I think that if you are a ramp bot, you shouldn't worry about the spoliers, the ramp bots' sole purpose should be to return to the home zone in the last 30 seconds of the game, clear an area to deploy...and deploy or get ready to lift. The job of placing the spoliers should belong to the other two robots. Spoliers should be placed when there is 30 seconds left in the game. and when there is 10 seconds left, abandon what you are doing and get on the ramp. if you are being lifted, probably should start heading back sooner.

JamesBrown 29-01-2007 15:16

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by akshar (Post 567559)
If you take a look at <G54> you can only score in a horizontal or vertical direction. So you wouldnt be able to make a row in a diagonal direction.

I think that he is suggesting that by placing Ringers diagonally(not in rows) you could prevent the other alliances from making rows.

astephen68 19-02-2007 19:54

Re: When are you placing your spoilers? (Poll)
 
True but you'll first have to get to the other side first before the 3 teams are able to make rows!!!!!!!!


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