Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

This was posted on FIRST Q&A. Does there seem to conflict with Rules R05 and R06?

Re: Robot lifting outside of homezone

Is it acceptable to lift up disabled or malfunctioning alliance partners and transport them to the homezone in order to score bonus points?

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There is nothing in the rules that would prohibit this action.

<R05> "Wedge” ROBOTS are not allowed. ROBOTS must be designed so that interaction with
opposing ROBOTS results in pushing rather than tipping or lifting. Neither offensive nor
defensive wedges are allowed. All parts of a ROBOT between 0 and 8.5 inches from the
ground (the top of the BUMPER ZONE) that are used to push against or interact with an
opposing ROBOT must be within 10 degrees of vertical. Devices deployed outside the
ROBOT footprint should be designed to avoid wedging. If a mechanism or an appendage
(e.g. a harvester for retrieving GAME PIECES) becomes a wedge that interferes with other
ROBOTS, penalties, disabling, or disqualification can occur depending on the severity of the
infraction.
<R06> Ramps, platforms as other mechanisms specifically designed to elevate ROBOTS during
the END GAME are exempt from Rule <R05> when they are deployed in the HOME ZONE.
Such devices deployed outside the HOME ZONE are not covered by this exemption.

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

The relevant rules are worded to apply only to interaction with opposing robots. Wedges are not prohibited if they are used only on alliance robots.

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

Alan,
R06 is pretty specific and in keeping with last year's interpretation. Any part of the robot within the bumper zone must remain within 10 degrees of vertical until the END GAME and "when they are deployed in the HOME ZONE. "

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

This needs to be a Q&A. Wayne volunteers! :) Actually, I'll try to find the time to post this today.

"Devices deployed outside the
ROBOT footprint should be designed to avoid wedging. If a mechanism or an appendage
(e.g. a harvester for retrieving GAME PIECES) becomes a wedge that interferes with other
ROBOTS, penalties, disabling, or disqualification can occur depending on the severity of the
infraction."

These bolded words are not absolutes. I believe the intent of the rule is to permit ramps to be deployed for PARTNERS to use outside of the home zone only. If while deployed, the ramp is actively used to herd tubes or play defense against the opposing alliance, that is not permitted.

An arm is a "device deployed outside the robot footprint". R05 specifically refers to mechanisms (i.e. ramps) AND appendages (i.e. arms). Who's to say lowering an arm to pick up a ringer off the floor doesn't present a wedge-type angled hazard for other robots to drive up on? If the GDC rules in the Q&A that ramps can't be lowered to the floor outside of the home zone because of R05, then unless the rule is rewritten, manipulator arms should not be permitted to do so for the same reason.

Also, since R06 says that all statements in R05 are null and void while within the home zone, does that imply that it's legal to use your ramps to fend off any opposing robots hanging around in your home zone? This would be analogous to the relaxation of pinning and tipping penalties while on the ramps in the Aim High game.

I propose we hold off on further discussion and wait for an official Q&A answer. Then someone will post the answer in this thread.

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

Asked and answered...twice.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=1261

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

While this answer satisfies the question of picking up disabled partners, it doesn't answer if you can violate <R05> to do it.

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

<R06> provides a HOME ZONE exception to <R05>. But <R05> explicitly applies only to interaction with opposing robots:
If you have a wedge-like part but never touch an opposing robot with it, it doesn't violate the rule as I read it.

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

From an Inspectors point of view:

If there is an area on any side of the robot that would likley cause an opposing robot to climb up or under the your robot, then it will not pass my inspection.

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

There isn't any conflict for 2 reasons. Alan did a good job on the first one. The second is that you don't have to use a wedge to lift a robot, there are other ways. In fact, if they are completely disabled, a wedge would likely do you no good.

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

Can you tell me how you arrived at the conclusion in bold here? Can we not expand very large in the home zone during the teleoperated period?

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

That is ridiculous...what if this "area" is of use to have an alliance teammate climb up you

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

Then you must have a way of protecting that area (an angle +/- 10 degrees of vertical) while outside of the home area. Since the inspectors will not be able to know or verify how the robot will be used during the competition, all robots must be able to meet the wedge requirements while outside of the home zone.

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

Sanddrag,
The boldface is from the rule book, just highlighted for this discussion. In the end game when in the home zone, the rule doesn't apply. Although I am a little fuzzy on when the 'end game' actually starts.

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

Al,

End game is the last 15 seconds of a match. There is a sound to go along with it as descibed in <G03>:

<G03> END GAME - The final 15 seconds of the TELEOPERATED PERIOD is called the END
GAME. During this period, no ROBOT may be in an opposing ALLIANCE HOME ZONE.
The intent of this period is to permit ALLIANCES to attempt to score bonus points without
undue interference. An audio signal will sound five seconds before the start of the END
GAME period, and again at the start of the END GAME period.

Re: Conflict with rules R05 & R06?
 

Remember, inspectors are not the only line of defense here. Both R05 and R06 contain wording that indicates that both the design AND use of these mechanisms is considered when evaluating compliance with the rule. You are 100% correct that you do not know how the robot will be used, so why should you make a judgment on it (as long as it's not a safety issue)? Leave it to the referees, that's why they're there! Some rules are game-time rules and are not the inspector's place to judge.