Chief Delphi - question about rules (size/orientation)

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question about rules (size/orientation)

i was fairly sure that i read somewhere that when in the starting position, if your robot has anything that folds from the horizontal position to the vertical position it must have it in the vertical position for measuring the size of the dimensions.

can anyone confirm this? or is it just me?

- Bochek

Re: question about rules

Not quite. The actual rule specifies that a robot must be taller vertically than horizontally, and must not exceed the 6-foot footprint. Other than that, you're good to go.

Re: question about rules

The robot must start with a foot print of no larger than 28 x 38. The height depends on weight or vice versa. 6 ft = 100 lb. 5 ft = 110 lb. 4 ft = 120 lb.

Re: question about rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by Setsanto (Post 560598)

The actual rule specifies that a robot must be taller vertically than horizontally

Oh really? I think not. There are no minimum dimensions for the robot.

Re: question about rules

No, there are no minimums specified (although there is a practical minimum), but there is one rule relevant:

Quote:

<G29> ROBOT orientation - ROBOTS must start the match with their long (maximum) dimension in a vertical orientation. After the start of the match, ROBOTS may change their orientation such that the long dimension is either vertical or horizontal. Refer to Rule <R37> in Section 8 to determine how this affects the use of bumpers.

To me that means that a robot must have its longest dimension in the vertical plane. This may affect low rolling "bricks", but can be easily cured with a tall, thin and flexible 'antenna' (maybe a flag holder?) that is taller than any other robot dimension.

Don

Re: question about rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo (Post 560611)

No, there are no minimums specified (although there is a practical minimum), but there is one rule relevant:

To me that means that a robot must have its longest dimension in the vertical plane. This may affect low rolling "bricks", but can be easily cured with a tall, thin and flexible 'antenna' (maybe a flag holder?) that is taller than any other robot dimension.

Don

Explained quite alot better than how i did.

Re: question about rules

This rule is for robots that flop down. You can have a robot with a 50" wheel base if it is orientated vertically to start the game then flops down to be horizontal.

Re: question about rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve W (Post 560619)

This rule is for robots that flop down. You can have a robot with a 50" wheel base if it is orientated vertically to start the game then flops down to be horizontal.

Yes, but a 38 x 28 x 12 'rampbot' would need to start vertically.

Re: question about rules

so if i make a 48" long arm lay down on a 52 degree angle so that it only takes up 32" of vertical space is that allowed?

- Bochek

Re: question about rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo (Post 560624)

Yes, but a 38 x 28 x 12 'rampbot' would need to start vertically.

What you are reading is poorly written. The reasoning behind the rule is for flop down robots. FIRST does not intend for teams to have to "stand on their heads" to start the game. If all 4 wheels are on the floor and you fit into the foot print then you are OK. If you are uncertain please post the question in the Q&A forum on the FIRST website.

Re: question about rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve W (Post 560630)

If all 4 wheels are on the floor and you fit into the foot print then you are OK.

Quote:

<G29> ROBOT orientation - ROBOTS must start the match with their long (maximum) dimension in a vertical orientation.
<snip>

I dunno, seems pretty clear to me.

Re: question about rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve W (Post 560630)

The reasoning behind the rule is for flop down robots. FIRST does not intend for teams to have to "stand on their heads" to start the game.

How do you know that?

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Re: question about rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 560633)

How do you know that?

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I am not 100% sure that is why I mentioned to ask on the Q&A for an official answer.

Re: question about rules

The rule IS for flop down robots and always has been. In 2002 my previous team, Team 93, had a robot that was the max 28 X 38 though i think it was a little bit different dimensions that year but it was only like 15 inches tall, it did not have to stand on its side and then fall to its wheels. it for if your robots wheel base is like 28x60 then you must start with the 60 in direction vertical and fall down.

Re: question about rules

so then my plan follows the rules?

Re: question about rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann (Post 560639)

And I will ask again: How do you know that? I have not seen any statements from FIRST that they do "not intend for teams to have to 'stand on their heads' to start the game." Nor have I seen a statement that says a 15-inch tall robot would have to flop over. So how do you know?

I have said it many times before, and I will probably say it many more times. Rules from prior FRC competitions DO NOT apply to this year! You can not assume that the wording, intent, meaning, or history of a particular rule that may have been used in prior years has ANYTHING to do with the rules that are in place this year. Sometimes the rules have a history, but many more times they are completely disconnected from prior years. Assumptions about the meaning, intent, and interpretations of prior rules are sure to do only one thing - lead you to incorrect conclusions.

So back to the original question. If the specific reason, impact and interpretation of a question is not clear, then there is only one thing to do. Ask about it on the FIRST Q&A system. Anything else will result in an unofficial answer, which is virtually worthless if you have to argue a point with an inspector or referee. If there is a realistic concern about whether a "short-bot" needs to start the match standing on it's nose, then the only responsible thing to do is ask the question and see what FIRST says. And if the intent of this (or any other) rule is not clear, then ask about it too.

-dave

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