Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

EasyC (including the WPI Library) has been an invaluable tool for our young team.

At the end of build week 3 we had zero lines of code, which is when I discovered that our software team (all students) had zero experience programming in any language, and had no clue what to do. There are really 2 separate things that need to be taught - programming logic and syntax. My programming experience involves FORTRAN and punch cards, so I had to come up to speed fast and bring them along with me. With EasyC I didn't have to learn syntax (much less teach it) - the program takes care of all of that for me. I could focus on the logic required, drag and drop the functions, and get some working code. I can show them logic, explain it, use it to debug, etc. without having to sweat where the stupid semicolons go.

We got the drive train running in about 2 hours the first day, and code for the entire robot in about another 3 hours a day later. So far everything has worked either the first time or after one debug change. We would be sunk without EasyC.

What is Up With This easyC
 

I just want to get a gauge of what everone else thinks about easyC. I personally can't stand visual drag and drop because of the lack of control that comes with it(same with LabView). Sure, it may be nice for basic conceptual prototyping, but when I need to desensitize the joysticks and install compressor toggle flags, where will easyC place me vs. MPLAB? Please vote if you agree with me....or disagree with me.

Is there any legitimate reason for me to even install easyC that I could not do in MPLAB?

And for the love of God, don't give me a bad rep for being "distasteful"--it has happened to me before and last I checked...America still has a moderate ammount of freedom of speech. Hell, I got a bad rep once with the comment "test".

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

I think EasyC is a great tool for people who don't want to be embedded software engineers. I helped a Vex team with it this Fall. I plan to use it with my sophomore FRC team, 1973, this season. My team, #125, does not use it.

On the con side... I hate the licensing. One license is not enough for FRC teams. Buying additional licenses seems very difficult and quite frankly expensive. I understand they are pushing this robot curriculum and I think that's great. However, this mentor is having a hard time getting a license.

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

Why install easyC?

You could install easyC for just the on-line window alone it allows you to run motors and relays, look at your inputs without one line of code.

Also, it allows experienced programmers to work with students with near zero ability. The can drag blocks while learning C and experienced users can write C code in easyC, Notepad, Eclipse, MPLAB anything and import the .c and .h files into your project.

Also, as I keep saying easyC now has a full C editor. So, if you hate to drag blocks then you don't have to. You can write a program based on WPILIB without ever dragging a single block. Plus you get all features of WPILIB complete with a help file with 14 great tutorials to get you started. Also you can drag blocks from the tree into your C source code and just fill out the config screen and easyC will format the function.

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

For experienced programmers, most likely their preference would be MPLab or something else. For rookies and people who are just beginning to learn C, I think EasyC would be a great way to teach them(especially since the people who do know C are graduating and no else on the team knows how to). Our programmer was teaching it to some of our team mates but it's hard because they just don't get it(it's just who they are). He's way of teaching is to have everyone to have a laptop and learn, but I don't think he gets it that our high school is the school where the "poor" kids go and even beginning to become an even poorer school(student self-discipline, growth of druggies, lack of motivation, etc. It dissappoints me.). The only people who really own laptops are the seniors who are graduating and going onto college. I think our team, especially after the seniors graduate, will get along with EasyC easier then trying to mess with MPLab on their first try on programming, but we'll see.

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

I agree with most people, EasyC is a great tool for beginners, as it allows them to program the robot without much prior experience.

For anything beyond the basics, however, I want to be able to type my own code with full control over the bot.

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

EasyC has it's pluses and minuses. Like most of the more basic languages, its gift, that you don't need to understand everything under the hood to make it work, is also its curse. If you really want to know what you're doing, you can't. It hides what's under the hood to keep it simple.

If you decide to continue with coding in the future, you'll need to understand the complexities of what you're actually doing in order to apply it to other machines. Sure, it's easier, and sometimes it's faster, but you won't always be able to use it. It's something that will help you code this robot, but it's a crutch because it only exists for the robot.

Though I should say that I wholeheartedly support it (though I don't use it myself), all I'm saying is that everyone should remember to look at what you're doing in plain C as well, because C you can take with you. It's a great way to get into the code, and into coding in general, and I love to hear about people getting into the mindset for programming through it. I don't really think there's much benefit in terms of the competition for using either MPLAB or EasyC.

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

Someone deleted my thread starter info here.... but man, I sure did create a fiery thread :)

"Also, it allows experienced programmers to work with students with near zero ability. The can drag blocks while learning C and experienced users can write C code in easyC, Notepad, Eclipse, MPLAB anything and import the .c and .h files into your project."

I disagree fully with this statement. Our experienced programmer IS a student...me. And why would I use easyC for a file editor when I have Multi-Edit v.9.1...the greatest file editor ever made (undisputed champion). Alls I have to do is click save, go to MPLAB, and click build. And I can guarantee that students with "zero ability" will never be able to do any coding that is meaningful. They would have to have ability, just not knowledge.

I would easily challenge any easyC diehard fan to a coding contest and would probably win too. To prove you don't need to be a CS III nerd to learn MPLAB, here is my background...

I am only in CS I (Visual Basic)... and think it is extremely easy...I picked up MPLAB one Saturday morning and decided I wanted to see what it could do :) I started programming QBASIC when I was 8 because it seemed fun to make games.

This task will give any easyC fan a run for his money...modify the camera tracking routines to a new search pattern, correct for offset issues, auto face the light, compressor toggling, solenoid toggling, desensitize joysticks, and do all this in autonomous as well. Oh yeah, this requires about 15 new variables and dozens of lines of code.

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

Why should I meet with easyC on ITS terms...my coding package has to be on MY terms. You remind me of one of those ppl who has a bowling ball in the entrance to their room and would rather jump over it every single day then move it. You can give me a bad rep on that...I don't particularly care...but you don't even sound like you are the team programmer (perhaps the backup?) and I GUARANTEE that when something goes wrong or your team asks you to do something off the beaten path, you will be placing a loudspeaker annoncement asking for MPLAB help. Yeah, you couldn't beat me with MPLAB on even a medium task...and I am only in CS I !!!

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

And why don't you just pay someone to write all your code for you...it would be easier...I value my time as well, and it is better spent understanding why my code runs instead of your mentality of "I push this magic lever forward and it moves"

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

I'll bite on that one. So, Mr. professional programmer, what are we writing?

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

Our team started with easyC our rookie year (Aim High). We transitioned from easyC to MPLAB for the current game. In my opinion, working with MPLAB seems easier to me than easyC, granted, easyC is a bit more user friendly. It all depends on the person I guess, everyone is different.

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

Amateurrobotguy,

I think that what the other folks are trying to say is, that it may be a bit intimidating for people who are not already experienced and confident programmers like yourself, yet who are interested in learning programming, to jump straight into a complex and difficult program like MPLab. They need a little stepping stone, like the quit smoking patches, it's much easier to get it in steps. This way you can learn things from a basic level, learn the concepts, then learn all the technicalities and how to manipulate them.

For example, if I were to need to code the robot, I would have no idea where to start. Granted, there are MPLab tutorials out there, but a totally new person to programming like myself, probably wouldn't even understand those directions, we need an "Intro Course" shall we say. For some of us, that's what EasyC can do.

So if you are able to go straight to MPLab, that's fantastic! I'm sure that your team (btw, which team is it, you don't mention on your profile which you're from!) is very lucky to have you, and that your skills are a valuable resource for your surrounding region! But for those of us who are just starting out, EasyC is an effective "Intro Class" to programming!

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

I thought I would get this going again since now we have regionals under our belt.

We used easyc pro for our bot and were finalists at Florida. Our autonomous mode worked 13 out of 16 times in competition putting the ringer on the spider.

To me the fact we produced a great bot and auto mode shows what easyc pro can do for a team. We didn't need to waist time.

Again we had professional programmers using it and liked it. Bottom line it produced for us with little problems where the professional and new team member alike can use it.

Re: What is Easy C good for?
 

Gah, slight problem. You've gave us the same option of "I have EasyC installed only" and no "I only use MPLab", because that's what true about our team. We saw EasyC and we haven't really went throughly into the design of the IDE, but it's seemed too complex to be easy. It was in our opinion that it would take more time to create/ fix a code on MPLab than doing it on EasyC. In addition, we're used to using raw code, so that's why it's more faster for us.
Therefor, my selection is "I only use MPLab."