Catastrophe...
 

Tonight after school, our robotics was canceled due to illness. When a few of us were sitting in the shop to see if anyone showed up, we heard what sounded like water running. After about a minute or two, the fire alarms go off and we get pushed out of the building. When we turn to go out, there is about half an inch of water running out of the closet with all of our electronics and every other material we have. The water is just pouring out of the closet and out of the back door.

The fire department showed up, the janitor would not let us in, and the robot was getting soaked. After a lot of waiting in 0 degree weather for an hour or so, we were let in... about 1 or 2 inches of water was still flowing out the back door. Everything in the room was soaked in water.

Apparently, the pipe was to the sprinkler system upstairs and when water was flowing through it, the system said there was a fire upstairs and set off the alarms.

We are not sure what we are going to do at this point but right now we arn't going to be turning on our electronics any time soon. As of now.. the robot is wet in the back of a truck icing over.

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We (1208) are O'Fallon Illinois, not too far from you. You are welcome to our spare parts. Let us know what you need and we will provide what ever we can.

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I would call IFI, tell them of your situation, and hopefully they will fix your parts for free or for a low charge. I doubt anything was ruined unless your robot was on at the time. Electronics won't ruin unless they are running when they get soaked. I would tell you to just open up the controller, victors, spikes, radio, and everything else to dry it off, but doing so voids the warranty. So you have a choice of calling IFI and paying them, or voiding your warranty and making the inspection go a lot worse if they find out that you tampered with your parts.

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This actuallly happened in our robotics room my senior year. Fortunately it wasn't during the build season though. We let everything dry out for a few weeks. As I recall everything ended up working fine. I think as long as none of the electronics or anything while they are wet, if they dry out it should be ok. Our main problem was a thick layer of rust on top of most of the metal.

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This happened to us (water) last spring in the shop and where we store the robots.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you - hope it gets somewhere dry soon and the process of drying out can begin.

In our case as well, the robots dried out and were 'fine'. It took a few days.
I would suggest you contact FIRST and/or IFI and find out your options.

Good luck with this,
Jane

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Hmm... bad luck with water and robots? Pics are going up now.. I think we are gonna try to talk to IFI and see what happens.

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With previous experience in the area of cell phones and complete water submersion...
DO NOT POWER ANY ELECTRICAL COMPONENT UNTIL YOU ARE SURE THEY ARE 100% DRY!!!
There still is a chance that they will work.
As RyanN said before, call IFI see what they say.

For reference, I have seen cell phones dropped into pools and lakes while still on. Battery removal as soon as possible and proper time to dry saved these devices.

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We had a similar, but not nearly a severe situation happen to our robot the night before IRI 2005. It was a torrential downpour outside, and the tarp covering our trailer with the robot in it had developed several holes on the drive to Indiana. The next morning we found our robot soaking wet (with about an inch of standing water in the bottom of it) and covered in "tarp dust". We spent several hours that morning going over our entire robot with paper towels, hair driers, compressed air, and WD40. Luckily our electronics board was removable, so it was removed from the rest of the robot, and dried carefully and with special attention. Thanks to some excellent help from Arefin Bari and Tytus Gerrish, we managed to get our robot running again in time for our first qualification match! The worst problems were a blown fuse and some rust on the gears. It never was quite the same robot, but at least it functioned.
Hopefully you can do the same with your robot, and hopefully you can still have a competitive season. Contact IFI and local teams to see what help they may be able to provide. Make sure all your electronics are COMPLETELY dry before powering them. Lubricate anything that can rust. Flush out and drain anything that might still have standing water in it. Be careful, and remember safety first.
If there is anything 116 can do to help you from Virginia, feel free to IM, PM, or e-mail me.

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I used to fly RC planes at a field that had a pond nearby. Two or three times a year somebody would "land" in it. Luckily I only did so once.

When it did happen we'd flush the electronics with alcohol. The alcohol helps remove the water and dries faster. It worked for me anyway

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I've seen people resurrect wet cell phones by letting them sit overnight in rubbing alcohol, so that might just be able to help.

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Sorry about your luck, guys...
That stinks.

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Watch out for alcohol + plastic though. I had an mp3 player go through the wash, and in my efforts to get the water out, I immersed it in alcohol. The alcohol completely fogged the front screen, so I imagine it could do equally nasty things to internal plastics as well.

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I am sorry for your situation. Good luck and hopefully you can get everything together for competition!!

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Wow, that is a tough blow to absorb during build season.

We are about 35 miles down the highway from you, just off Kingshighway near I-44, less than a mile from the St. Louis Science Center, where kickoff was held. If you need a place to test-drive your robot please come use our practice field. It is carpeted and has a full-size, low-cost rack. Contact Mr. Dressel (PM me for his email or phone) and let him know when you want to come -- after school and 9-3 Saturdays are always OK. And if we can help with spares to get your robot going again please let me know. As others have suggested , please be very careful to dry electrical components thoroughly before powering up.

PM me here if you want to take us up on the offer. And good luck; I look forward to seeing your team at the St. Louis Regional.

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Please let GRR know if you need any assistance, or spare parts!

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Team 549 the Devil Dawgs would like to help as well. Please let us know what you think you may need and if we're not using it, I'll ship it out next day to you...

Email me directly at mikestill@5615.com

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well the good news is part of IFI tests is to soak the controllers and vics in salt water. so with a bit of drying time not all of your electronics will be . . . a wash

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Ouch... we had a sprinkler situation in our school this year, but luckily it was both before the build season and away from our rooms. A sprinkler was set off at 2am on the second floor. The water leaked between the floors and soaked the rooms below. All of the unfortunate teachers in those classrooms had to wait a week for repairs while they griped about their soaked gradebooks with bleeding ink!

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Ouch... can you say that sucks? I'll say that we'd love to help, but being all the way in NJ I'm not sure how much there is we can do... all the best in "recovering" from that, because you can't really drive, test code, anything. Do you have any old chassis that you could test code on and practice drive, because that would be something.

Tough luck, particularly this late in build season.

Bring in the hairdryers!

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Wow. So sorry that happened. My team is from Affton. We hope everything goes well, and look forward to seeing you at competition

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DON’T PANIC! My job requires me to spend a lot of time on boats with a lot of very expensive electronics. I have had experience with sensitive electronics not only getting wet but also freezing and actually sinking with a boat straight to the bottom in salt water.

My professional recommendations are:

1) Absolutely DO NOT POWER ANYTHING UP!

2) Get it out of the freezing cold ASAP. The ice will cause stuff to crack.

3) Open up all of the electronics to the board level and liberally wash in distilled water if there is any sign of existing water damage that may have contaminants. Don’t wash any boards that didn’t get wet, of course.

4) Soak/wash the boards in alcohol. Regular isopropyl that you get at the local store is what I have used. It will disburse the water especially from hidden places. Try to squirt it from a syringe if possible.

5) Let everything dry out thoroughly. Try a hair dryer or even an oven set to a low temperature (~125 to 150 degrees).

Trust me, it may not be as bad as you think. I have saved many pieces of equipment this way. I am still using a $35,000 piece of equipment to this day that sank in 40 feet of salt water for ~24 hours about 3 years ago.

Email me if you have any questions.

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Well hopefully we can salvage the stuff. Thanks for all the tips too, We'll definatly try them. Right now we are waiting on some welds so we do have a bit of time to carefully dry the electronics. Heh, Especially when this all happens the day after you get the camera tracking after not being able to any year before.


Richard, I know where that is. We may take you up on the offer later on when we getting closer to getting finished, thank you.

Compnerd, I do remember you from our rookie year, 2005. We were in the pit next to yours and had to keep borrowing your tether because we forgot ours. :)

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I've had a lot of experiance cleaning up electronics that have been immersed in water.

Deepwater (quote above) is correct, although I'd avoid using alchohol unless needed, because alcohol can leave a residue which is conductive. Alcohol is also a solvant and can damage plastics and polymers such as Polycarbonate.

The most important thing is to get it out of the freezing cold as the expansion of water when it freezes can crack parts (especially plastic).

100 degrees F in an oven for 3-5 hours should dry most components and not soften any of the plastics (do NOT go over 200 F).

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I agree with Daniel, but check with IFI first. The more critical items are the RC, Victors and Spikes. With permission from IFI their covers could be removed prior to the low temperature baking (Victor bottom covers, RC both and Spike both) I would change out the fans on general principles as the water might have flushed any lubricant from those. The compressor will likely dry out by itself but the motors might be a different story. I think the Chalupas have a seal at each end, the window motors are also sealed and should be no problem. The open motors should dry out by themselves but a low temp bake might also help. However the lubricant might have washed out, a drop of oil here and there would help. Don't power anything that has visible condensation. There should be no problem with the battery and the terminal block will dry out if you open it. The only thing I would change out is the small breakers. I believe the main breaker is intended for outdoor use and should be fine.
In the past I have used a home oven set to the lowest temperature with the door cracked open. (many ovens have a detent to keep the door open a few inches.) An hour or two usually does the trick.

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Team 538 is in Alabama but would like to help. If you need any replacement parts let us know. If we have them we will ship them overnight to you. Just don't give up and know that FIRST teams always pull together to help when disater strikes.

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We are probably the closest team to you - we are in O'Fallon/St. Peters MO and are meeting at Hwy 70 and TR Hughes Blvd. I'm not sure what we can do to help until you know what is damaged, but I've asked our team to take a look at your post.

Will your group be meeting on Saturday? I am making lunch for our team already and could make and deliver lunch for your team so you can stay focused on your robot and it's repairs.

I'm glad to see so many have posted suggestions on recovery.

DeAnna

Clean Up Procedure
 

Just some thoughts that might help you salvage some components:

Using DI (Distilled, non-conductive) wash/rinse every component that was soaked. Open up the electronics packages and ensure that they are thoroughly rinsed (assuming they got wet in the first place).

Using 100% ethanol (difficult to obtain, I know) will suck the remainder water off the surface and present a fast drying solvent that can flash off.

Finally, place the components in a desiccant box (Think silica gel) to help drive out the remaining amounts.

This is probably useless for motors but might save your camera, sensors, gts's, gyro, etc.

I'm really sorry to hear this- and would love to help if we can.

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If there are any parts that we can get to you, just drop us a PM and we will help whereever we can. We have some extra motors, victors, kit frame, etc that we would be willing to share (if we can)

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Call IFI, let it dry, completely. There is a good chance they will still work if you take good care of them. Ofcourse, you will still have to buy certain extra parts. Hopefully teams nearby will help out. Good luck - I don't think you are sitting in that bad of a situation.

Re: Catastrophe...
 

UGH n OUCH!...... I'm really sorry

a lot of advice and precautions have been given already....
I'm just going to point out something different

TADA!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to F.I.R.S.T.! This is what FIRST is all about. I think you should be more concerned about the time you've left and make the best out of it.
After reading this thread, i can say that every other person/team has at some point and time has faced something similar. But this doesn't mean that one should start focusing on the catastrophe; focus on the outcome and what can be done in next couple of weeks before the shipping.
So be strong, don't worry; you're being backed up by the whole CD/FIRST community.
...... and don't hesitate to drop a line if ya need anything. We would be glad to help you out in any way possible. :)

Imad

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This thread is making me all vaklempt. :) This is FIRST at its best! Advice, offers for spare parts, and even lunch! You all ROCK! :D

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Just dawned on me-

Thank god no one was hurt.

Our school had a gas leak last year during the season. Finally managed to get the school evac'd and people were standing around in front of gas-filled brick buildings whining that they wanted back in. It took several stern comments and lectures to parents to police their children to get them to move back to the recommended 250 foot distance. I even took teachers to task during the process as they (and the students) are drilled to cross the entire parking lot to the far end for a fire.

One woman was crying that her keys were stuck in her coat inside and she just had to get home- so I offered to drive her- at which point she was afraid someone would steal her coat and purse.

Gas explosions are nasty. Fires are nasty. Freezing water is nasty too, but I am very much relieved that everyone on your team is Safe and Sound (save for a nasty head cold).

Hopefully I can cheer you up with this:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=10299

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Ok, Nike dropped by to check out our "robot" and they told us they had a vacuum oven. They can heat anything to a certain temperature and vacuum the humidity/water down to "0.001 percent". So we gave them all of the stuff to take while we wait on IFI to supply. They should have it overnight and it should be good. The machine is meant for plastics too.. so it shouldn't melt it.

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What a bad time to have something like that happen!

Your electronics should be fine as long as they are dry when you use them the next time. I'd be more worried about rusting of metal parts, especially motors...

I hope everything turns out good for you guys, best of luck!

Re: Catastrophe...
 

At the post season river rage event last year, we drove up in the pouring rain with a second robot in an open pickup truck.

We put the battery on it and tried getting it running for maybe 10 minutes checking this and that, blowing out here or there.

I was thinking that there might be water on the connectors of the FRC (understatement of the century) and we should bring it to the hand dryer in the bathroom to dry it off. As I was handing it off to be dried I could distinctly hear water sloshing around inside the thing. We unscrewed the screws on the back of the unit and water poured out of the unit. It was literally filled to the top with water. We dried it off and it worked but the spikes didn't.

Checking the spikes, they were also filled to the top with water.

The 884's seemed to self drain.

After draining, everything worked fine and does to this day. We did have trouble getting some rusted gears off motors a few months later.

It seems the IFI boards and components are fairly robust.

While bad, I wouldn't sweat the water too much and as mentioned above at least no one was hurt and you have a great F.I.R.S.T. story.

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Hey One of my team's mentor, said FIRST was replacing all your parts. Is this true? Or is it just a rumor

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This is true. Not quite all of them, but we gave them a list of things.. such as victors, camera assembly, some motors we may use, etc. They are very nice people! It should be shipping tomorow or monday... And yes, our OI was filled with water and u could hear it sloshing too. In the meantime, the vacuum dryer did work, the components are waterless and not broken from what we have checked. We did a quick test run and so far it is all doing what is suppose to. The motors as well as breaker panels are rusted and the spikes/victors are pretty dirty. When our new shipment arrives we will be replacing everything and just using our current parts for programming testing. From what I know, Victors are definatly not the most reliable part in the kit. We had quite a bit fail in the past while at the competition.

PS The picture of the pipe the next day is here :)

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Ah, there is just something I love about the FIRST community. Everyone pulling together to get the team with the bad luck new parts, and everything. While I am not in FIRST robotics anymore, I still feel that I am part of the community, and it put a smile to my face that so many different teams that only have one thing in common (Robotics) come together and try to help others out.

Just one other note, Alcohol is a bad idea, it will eat the traces on the board. I had poured water on my keyboard by accident when I dropped a glass, I had also heard about the alcohol, poured it over, and washed it out properly, and the keyboard was dead. Opened it up, and found that all the traces were missing, or at least most of them.

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http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...5?OpenDocument Great story! It appeared on my Google alert.

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Here's video from our local TV station:
http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_articl...storyid=112005

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Not to get too far off topic, but I was thinking of a story that was kind of funny. Call my old team (151) crazy, but in the 2001 UTC Reginal we found out we had a nagging leak in our pneumatic system. So what did we do? Well that year we had all of our electronics mounted to the superstructure of our robot, and just the pneumatics (minus the solenoids) in the "tub" of our chassis. So we filled the entire "tub" of our robot with water and used that to check for our leaks, turned out we had used a "tee" fitting with no plug so the air was just escaping, but you should've seen the looks on peoples faces when we were pouring buckets of water in the robot.

Back to the topic at hand, If you find out you've got rusty parts (gears, sprockets) from the water, immerse the parts in a tub of coke (yes, aside from mythbusters I've done this) and let them marinate for about an hour or so. The soda will dissolve the rust, and clean the metal. HOWEVER the parts will be extremely sticky, so after the rust is removed immerse the parts again in isopropyl alcohol to clean them.

I hope you guys succeed from this disaster! You've got my support!

~Greg

Re: Catastrophe...
 

thanks for all the replies it all helps ease the pain. fortunatly first is replacing all of our electronics that were ruined in the flood. but i think we are back on our feet for now, we just finished and attatched part of our arm so unless there is a jet fuel fire in our closet we should be "ok".

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Felix,
It pains me to jump in on this one but there are a lot of water damage stories in electronics. Pure, distilled water can be relied on to not cause damage to components but any other water, especially water that has been in an iron pipe for any length of time, will be a gift that keeps on giving. Water does not conduct electricity it is the contaminents that conduct and cause harm.
Sorry guys.

X,
Alchohol does not eat traces, but in a keyboard there are other things that make it bad. The water will be pulled between electrical layers by capillary action. Many keyboards use a rubber and carbon pad to connect two pads on the keyboard plane. (rows and columns) Spilling water, not only conducts electric current into the sensitive keyboard encoder, it also changes the electrical property of the carbon. If the keyboard doesn't die completely, you might find that a row or column will cease working. (i.e. the 2,w,s,x, and alt key might not work but everything else will.

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Yes we did show up on the news and in the paper.. I had a chance to get interviewed and chose not to :).

I think we will pull out of this.. Everything should go as planned, just set behind, and we need to put in extra hours in the next few weeks.

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The reason the IFI stuff may be OK (especially the Victors and Spikes) is that the boards are conformally coated, which would prevent water from contacting metal parts and causing shorts. However, I do not believe the RC is coated.

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El,
Unfortunately that is not the case. That is why the Victors suffer from metal flakes getting inside. I have teams that killed a Victor and showed me that not only had metal entered the top case, it also enter the bottom which is theoretically sealed. The conformal coating is mostly laid on pre soldering and mounting and is pretty much a solder resist.