Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

These results are no different then the findings I had from Waterloo last year, mind you Waterloo is a very small regional, making it harder to mix up teams while still giving them a good enough break in between matches (was the reason given when I approached the issue). After approaching FIRST about this at a debriefing, I had the chance to see the code they used for Waterloo, it was in fact very well written. There was however a problem, this was that this program didn't "reset" the algorithm after breaks such as the end of day or lunches causing teams to almost stay in a loop of teams they play with every match introducing one team into those they last played with as it ranked having a longer break for the team more important then who they were playing against. I changed this in that code adding a set number of resets, and saw a far more "random" selection between the days, and even better adding 2 more breaks. These two extra breaks are very accomplishable, if FIRST was to say add two 10 min breaks in the day one before and one after lunch, these breaks would also be logical as to allow the volunteers a much needed short break, allow any syncing problems with scoring to be worked out, and a multitude of other practical reasons. I relayed back my solution to the one that made the software, hoping these minor changes could be made.

It could very well be that this "looping" effect where you see teams play with or against others many times, is simply because they don't have resets for the algorithm, or it could be because the algorithm was poorly designed, either way it is a problem FIRST knows about and I find it unfortunate for those teams who have been effected that they haven't solved it yet.

edit: mind you there never was a problem with teams playing against a team all the time... say if they were stuck in the "loop" with said team, a few would be with a few against

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

Team 2021 plays against team 2028 in all of our matches I believe.

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

Quote from artdutra:

It is not really completely random. You are more likely to play with the same people that you were competing with and against rather than someone else that is minutes out of your range due to the algorithm FIRST has in place.

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

this is absolutely true of the scheduling. the so called randomizing is making the strong stronger and keeping the weak at that same level of performance. This is not helping gathering any significant data during scouting eith:ahh: er. What are they going to do about this???

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

Well, it certainly makes scouting a little bit easier for every match. :p

401 plays against 405 EVERY SINGLE ROUND!!!! Strangely enough, I'm not really noticing this when I drive though. Then again, we're playing mostly defense right now.

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

Every team in the pits is paired against the team directly next to them (not across the isle).

It is very ironic, because when 401 first got there, we helped repair what turned out to be our perpetual opponent.

I am glad that we could help out their team, but would appreciate more variation in the matching.

A little birdie from the higher ups told me they are working to fix it for the other regionals.

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

Same problem at the Pacific Northwest regional. 948 vs 949 in every match. 272 vs 360 in every match. And several others whose numbers I've forgotten.

Several of the teams reported the problem to the staff as soon as the pairings were distributed. They said they were looking into it and might be redoing the pairings. We checked back a bit later, and they said that the official word from FIRST was that nothing could be changed.

We are very disappointed, even though this mess-up gave our team an advantage.

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

Today at BAE, team 549 played team 562 all 7 matches of the day. Also, we played with a team, and then would play against them the next match, then pair with them later again.

Also, this terrible pairing system left teams wondering the capabilities of our robot, because they never got to even TRY and play. We practiced yesterday with many of the teams we played with today...

It was no fun to play with/against the same teams all day.Strategy turned to mush, because we were with and against the same teams all day. :(

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

From Richard's post in this thread, it seems that FIRST has spec'd out an algorithm that places similarly numbered teams in matches together. I suppose it could be an attempt to even the playing field for rookies. Sorry to spread around your post Richard, but this is an interesting and, I think, rather unfortunate change in direction.

We'll be against 291 for two entire regionals...:(




EDIT: Well, I think Richard's information is correct, based on the ten's of posts on here, from every regional, saying that they're paired up with the same people throughout. The question is, is there anything good about it, and if not, should we do anything to change it? Can we even change it?

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

We've played Team 1089 all 5 matches today and we also have the problem with playin in match 9, 19, 29, etc.

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

One more fun fact. At BAE we have 2 teams which need to play another round to get to 8 rounds per team. As such, 4 (or at least 3) extra rounds have been scheduled, giving 22 (or 16) teams an extra round of practice.

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

Yea, we have noticed this in the past 2 days. Team have been playing either with against each other for 2 or more matches. I feel it just doesnt show how you will compete with others. It's still a lot of fun though. :yikes:

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

I don't mind you spreading it around.

I'd like to repeat here that the new field management system worked flawlessly in St. Louis today. Credit for that should go to FIRST engineering staff and the new contractors for great attention to the details, to Mark Koors of FRC45 (technical advisor) and Jerry Budd of FRC461 (scoring lead), and to several members of the local St. Louis volunteer corps for tirelessly testing and retesting the system on Wednesday and Thursday, before the fun started this morning. This system is a major improvement over last year.

As I said earlier, I will add my concurrence to the communication being prepared for FIRST regarding the match generation algorithm; however, to me it seems clear that this is a policy issue and not a defect in the field management system. Let's keep the discussion on this topic focussed on what can/should be done to improve match generation.

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

I-- can't believe this is how they WANTED the match schedule to be!

What!?

Oh boy...

I hope this just gets redone, rather than rationalized into a "good thing."

Re: "Random" match Schedules
 

I see this as a good and a bad thing. Although I do not like the fact that you are against the same people over and over, I bet FIRST or someone can create an algorithm that can at least make the first half of the teams compete with only first half teams and second half teams only second half with a few inter lapped but I think that Rookies vs Rookies rather than Veterans vs Rookies is a great idea because Vets, no matter if they are rookies on the team, have a higher chance of winning because the team has had the experience compared to the Rookie teams.

I'm not 100% for it, but im not 100% against it either. I guess its a step in the right direction....Maybe a diagonal step, but forward nonetheless.