Use of Spoilers
 

I was wondering what everyone's opinions and thoughts are on the strategy of using spoilers in a match now that we've seen some regional competitions.

At the NJ regional less than a dozen spoilers were ever in a robot's possession and only ONE spoiler was ever successfully put on the rack. I was wondering if spoilers are as rarely used in the other FRC competitions that took place and if anyone really thinks that teams have enough time to be considered with the putting on (much less taking off) of spoiler rings during a two-minute match.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

My impressions that a lot fewer ringers made it on the rack period, much less a spoiler.

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Two spoilers were actually put on, one in the semifinals, and one in the finals.

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at BAE GSR there were similar results as far as spoilers to the NJ one.
I think that there a LOT of defence to prevent spoilers.

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No spoilers were used at VCU, other than one thrown by a human player that made it onto the rack. One bot picked up the spoiler with an intent to use it, but dropped it before they were able to place it.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

O.o wow, did the thrown spoiler actually make it on top of another ring to negate it? or was it more of a last ditch effort from the team who was out of other tubes to throw xD

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

There were not enough four plus rows for teams to add spoilers to thier strategy yet. As the weeks go by more and more ringers will be scored and more spoilers will come in to play making the last second ditch to deploy or get on a ramp/liftobot even faster.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

The only spoiler that actually made it onto the rack in STL was thrown by a human player, and it landed on an empty leg. It seemed like there were opportunities to use spoilers, but teams either couldn't get a spoiler out fast enough, or they were harassed so much that the spoiler never got to the spider leg.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

At PNW there were very few times when a spoiler was needed (a row of 5 or more). When a spoiler did come out the robot with it was defended very heavily. There were a few placed though. My team has one placed against us in the quarter finals but we had decided that getting on a ramp is more important. I doubt that spoilers will be that useful with so much defense being played on robots carrying them.

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At VCU, there were no spoilers really used, but in future regionals and the championships, I see them as strategically key to beating finely honed alliances...

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

As mentioned earlier, the only spoiler that made it onto the rack at VCU was under identical situations as Stl, thrown by an HP onto an empty leg.
During QF 3.3, 435 attempted to place a spoiler in the middle of the #2 alliances row of 5 (also, where it intersected a column of 2) on the far side of the rack, potentially turning a 40 point formation (row of 5, and 2 columns of 2) into 14. Unfortunately, it was not successfully placed, and time didn't really allow for another attempt (although, in hindsight, another attempt should have occurred anyway), as 435 needed the time to get back on 1885's ramps. The game ended 100-62 (72 before penalties). If the spoiler had been placed and no penalty given to the #7 alliance it would have been 76-72, not swaying the outcome of the match, but making it much closer.
There were very few other attempts for spoilers to be placed.
Because of the lack of consistent multi-tube treats during week one (~3-4 per regional), spoilers often would be worth less to most alliances then either a ramp bonus or extended an existing row. Additionally, the black spoilers set off even more defensive flags than a ringer, and in order to negate existing ringers, must be played closer to the end game (often in it), when a majority of victories happened through the bonus points. Beyond that, when a team saw a large row forming, they would often play a ringer to stop that row from expanding further, not only hampering an opposing score, but enlarging theirs.
Spoilers will likely not emerge as a serious strategic option in a vast majority of matched, particularly in the qualification rounds. At some of the more competitive regionals we will see a few played during the eliminations, particularly when a higher-scoring alliance meets an alliance with lesser scoring capability (but still enough to play a spoiler). At the championship, particularly in the elimination rounds, spoilers may quickly become a factor, and a strategic advantage to teams with less scoring capability than the opposing alliance.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

Other than the obvious strategy of solely intending to place a spoiler to take down a score, a spoiler possibly lends itself to a different strategy. In a crazy 2 minute match, bringing a spoiler to the opposing alliance's side of the rack is like bringing the one ring into the gaze of Sauron, or more like attacking the main gates of Mordor.

The benefits would vary from match to match depending on situation and teams, but a team can draw the defense to a spoiler-laden robot. This could also be similar to a good play action pass or splitting a star wide receiver out wide and sending him down the field, opening up other opportunities. The spoiler can still be used, but simply making a general attempt can open up the field for the other teams on an alliance.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

our team came dangerously close to using one at GSR the only one in fact but it was knocked out of our claw.

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Like Dave said, none were ever successfully placed at the StL regional by a robot. I remember in one match when the opposing alliance tried to get one, all I heard was "block the spoiler!! block the spoiler!! block the spoiler!!!!" I'm sure this was the strategy at other regionals when the spoiler was brought out, too.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

I don't know how many were placed during qualifications (probably none at GLR), but during the Eliminations, we used them several times. We broke apart the 67/1114/57 row of 6. I attribute our strategic placement of spoilers to our wins in those matches.

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yeah, 435 was going to use a spoiler against us in the semis, but 612 (with awesome defence) made them drop it. and the spoiler that was thrown on was in a practice match and was the only tube on the rack. so the throw was just for practice, not with the intent of negating anything.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

The ONLY spoiler placed during qualifications at GLR was scored against our alliance (322, 815, 1114) in the 4:22 PM match (they don't have numbers on the FIRST website). We still won 75-8 though. Which brings up another point about spoilers. You have to use major strategy in order to use a spoiler appropriately. We didn't score any more ringers after the spoiler was placed and they only had one row of three. Wouldn't it have been better for their ranking points to score another ringer to increase their row rather than trying to use a spoiler on ours?

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

Team 1629 almost scored a spoiler at Pittsburgh against 291/375/1990 on a row of 7. the refs ruled that it didn't count after about a 10 minute delay of the next game because it was held up by a keeper under the rack. It would have changed the score from 22-128 to 22-16.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

We had to replace only 3 spoilers during the qualifying matches, and one during elimination matches at Finger Lakes Regional.

They always were thrown onto the field but used very little. Some teams got some of them up.

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at the stl regional no one really tried to go fro spoilers, most everybody was concerned with trying to get the most point's/ bonus point's than teh spolier.
their was only one time when someone tried to put a spolier on.

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I think too many people forget about the spoiler until there isn't enough time left to use them. In WI, I think I only saw once when the tube was brought out.

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We got "spoiled" in consecutive qulifing matches. Once taking our beautiful row of 8 down to 7, the other knocking a row of 6 down to 5. Since they only reduced the rows by 1, they didnt affect the outcome of the match.

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We had a match at Pittsburgh in which our alliance partners (128) placed a spoiler with about 10 seconds left breaking up a row and a column at about the same time we were headed up 1998's ramp. Ended up being pivotal in winning the match. (It also involved some very nifty driving by 128!)

That was one of only three spoilers I saw placed all weekend, but I only saw about 1/3 of the matches.

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I can think of two at L.A. One was a human player on the top row (empty) and the other was on a bottom row against a ringer that 968 had just placed. Let's just say it came off in a hurry. Several others were attempted without success.

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Both 254 and 294 succesfully placed spoilers on 2 rows that we created in 2 different matches. Fortunately, our two drivers Jackie and Kiet got those things off in no time. It was very cool to see.

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Stealing an empty leg from an opponent is much, much more fun (something our drivers were able to do during the LA finals match)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7FOPBBdNhk

20 seconds in

That was awesome. (<3 beach bots)

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

Sounds like you should send out your weakest capper with a spoiler whenever your opponents get a row of four if there is say 45 plus seconds left. This would draw off the defense from your stronger cappers and tie up you opponents cappers that would now play defense against the spoiler and your stronger cappers could go to work. Or, send out your defensive robot with a spoiler so that your opponent would have to keep an eye on them all the time. Of course, keeping the opposing alliance from getting a row of 4 or more should be stopped in the first place.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

We were in with you guys on that 256/2 spoil. Everyone was so excieted that we got the 256 that they didn't see the team drive up with the spoiler in time to stop them. We re-watched the video and we just missed hitting them to stop them. Then we ran out of time to de-score the spoiler.

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In addition, there was a spoiler placed (though I forget by whom) on Thursday against 330, who promptly took it off and placed it on an opposing alliance's row. It was a pretty high-quality play for a practice match, that's for sure.

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That was a great match. I could watch the video over and over. You guys were SOOOO close to descoring the spoiler. It was great working with you.

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Yep that was us. (who placed the spoiler)

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

As I see it there really is no use for spoilers. 103 didn't even touch a spoiler and we won the NJ reigonal. As long as you can keep splacing ringers there really is no point in trying to put a spoiler on the rack. It's just my opinion but spoilers just aren't a major part of the game.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

Unfortunately this isn't true. At the Great Lakes Regional in the semi-finals we lost by twelve points due to 2 spoilers that took away 24 points. As a result we were eliminated. This shows that when used strategically spoiler can be very effective. :(

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

815 kindof got jipped out of the finals, not saying anything bad about anyone else, but we were pretty sweet, so to say, i just wanted to say how cool our mentors are! The mentors on our team have really helped us come a long way, without taking control of the team, they let us participate in the competition without hesitation. so yeah, our team is pretty sweet.

Re: Use of Spoilers
 

I know that at GLR in our match vs 1114,67,57 we woulda won both matches if we coulda got the spoiler on. :confused:
But i think that matches will be Dependant on the spoiler

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At the Kansas City Regional team I may have missed any others, but team 16 placed a spoiler on the rack during one of their qualification matches against us (team 935). With time running out at the end of the match our bot tore the spoiler off and crushed the life from it. It was flat by the final buzzer.

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i remember in a practice match we placed 2 spoilers which dramatically changed the outcome of the match... it went from 32-16 to 10-16

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At SVR, it was us vs. 114. Both teams were undefeated with a 6-0 record. In the last moments, two of their robots brought out spoilers. Though we blocked one, the other robot managed to place theirs.