Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Hey guys, been reading up on the Week 1 competitions, I was wondering if any arm/ramp hybrids have won yet. Thanks.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Although I am uncertain about alliance leaders which are hybrids, at NJ team 1302 was the second pick in the alliance with 25 and 103 that won the regional. They had both a 12" ramp for one (maybe two?) robot, and an effective capper.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Did they use the ramps to win? How many tubes did they score?

I don't remember exactly, but didn't 25 win the finals with tubes alone?

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Team 829 that I am a mentor for has a hybrid bot and won the St. Louis regional. However we decided to go defense and ramp rather than score due to our alliance having better arms than us.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Yes, and you guys were amazing!

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

I guess I just don't understand the question. Has a hybrid won yet?

Has any robot or team won yet? I say no. Alliances win regionals, not robots or teams. Should we say 1444 won the St. Louis regional because they were the captain of the winning alliance? Should we say 45 won it because they were the 'senior' team on the winning alliance? Should we say the Digital Goats won it because they enabled both of their alliance partners to score 30 bonus points in F2, and also defended the rack against the amazing onslaught of 148 and 217?

None of the above. 1444 / 45 / 829 won the 2007 St. Louis Regional. One of them happened to be a hybrid. I think we'll see similar winning alliances several times as the 2007 season progresses.

I'll be really surprised if an alliance without a ramp wins any 2007 regional event.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Being a hybrid brings up a lot of questions. Since we have our first (and only regional, sadly) on Thursday, we've been bantering about hybrid strategy almost nonstop. However, since our ramp was an underweight afterthought, we'll focus on capping.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

hybrids have won as part of an alliance, but given the recent slew of pictures, i think the question that will answer yours is:

Has the Great Lakes Regional happened yet?

(now, more than ever, i am convinced that Michigan one of the top states for FIRST, both in quality and quantity)

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

What I meant when I made the thread, which should have been explained in the first post, is that most/all hybrids that I've seen have been mediocre when trying to do both scoring and ramping/lifting. I was wondering If a team had won a hybrid while doing both functions with their alliance.

~Michael

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Why? If you have 3 effective cappers and can put up rows of 7/8 you've already beat anything a ramp could give you.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Row of 8=256 points
Row of 8-1 spoiler=row of 7=128 points
Row of 8-2 spoilers=2 rows of 3=16 points
Additionally, you have to place 8 tubes before the opponents can place a single on that level. While that might be possible on occasion, I wouldn't rely on it to win a regional.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

I highly doubt a row of 8 with a spoiler on it... the way I see it, if you have a row of 8 play defense like mad if a robot has a spoiler have two robots on them.... secondly if you can't stop a row of 8 before it happens, by placing a ringer of your own on, chances are you ain't stopping it after it happens... I agree that it likely wont win Regionals, and if it does, it will be few times and far between, but by Championships I suspect that there will be enough refined scoring robots that the double ramp isn't so much the "guaranteed win".

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

I would highly doubt that an alliance with only three offensive bots and no ramps will win a regional. From what I saw at BAE, ramps are EVERYTHING in the elimination rounds. I would be comfortable in an alliance of three strong defensive bots with one of them being a strong ramp bot. Sure it would be an ugly way of winning, but three bots playing defense can shut down an opponent (have a look at qf4m3 at BAE...).

I now believe that a strong alliance would be three bots with very good drive systems who can all play D, sure there has to be some offensive capabilities, but defense can be huge when you have a reliable ramp bot to back you up.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

especially not reliable to win the championships

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

But the other team's going to have refined bots too. Before you can even think about getting around to score on the other side of the rack, they've put up a possible keeper or two and scored who knows how many ringers. They'll likely have a ringer on before you can get there just for defense. Then to score on the other side, your defense has to force the other teams away from the rack far enough that your team can score.

The only thing to really enable high scoring rows is either playing insane defense against poorly-matched bots (possible -- 1885 penned in all 3 teams one match enabling 116 to make a row of 7 on their own), or playing against robots that cannot score on the same levels as you, and they don't defend the rack from you.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

There were several dominant ramp/scorers at BAE that, had the competition been 1 on 1 and simply deploying the ramp garnered you bonus points, would have won. Team 179 comes to mind.

BAE GSR winning alliance did not have a hybrid. Their ramp bot could have had a scorer, but it was superfluous and all they did was just sit in the end zone and set up as soon as the match began.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

This being said, what do you think would happen with three dynamite scorers and no ramp bot against three great defensive robots with one of them being a ramp?

I think that in this cenario the three cappers would win because of the time it ussally takes to gurantee two robots on a ramp. For the first 1:30 seconds of the match it would be preaty equal. With no teams scoring then the ramp bot would leave which leaves probably the best scorer to start really scoring, then at 20 seconds the first ramp climber would leave thus leaving two very good scoring robots compleatly unharassed. If a row of six gets you 62 points and the other team didn't cap at all, I think that the three cappers would have enough time to win. It would be close but it's possible. This dosn't include auto mode either. my two cents

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

There is no doubt in my mind that three good scoring robots will win against three defensive robots with a ramp. Three good scorers can easily score a row of six in 20-30 seconds.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

1676 has a ramp with 12" capability, arm, and was 3rd seed in NJ....does that qualify?

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

team 330 won the los angeles regional, they have a dual ramp and they can score all the way around the rack in any spider, i wouldnt be suprised if they win nationals.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

We (1359) have a hybrid that works pretty well. It's a rack scorer with a (hidden) ramp built into the chassis. Unlike many other hybrids i've seen, ours is a rack scorer with a ramp as opposed to a ramp scorer with an arm. Most of the time we never used the ramp because there were more professional ramp robots on our team but when a match came along where we had no other ramp robot, we opened up our ramp and really almost scored. *the robot who drove up us got into place and instead of staying put, moved off and fell* Our people up in the stands said they heard people saying stuff like "woah, what's that? They have a ramp?"
Our robot looks like any other scorer and scores really efficiently but when it's needed, we have a ramp.

Just saying, hybrids are often underestimated. Somewhere on youtube, I saw a match with a team called Riot Crew. They had a hybrid with what looked like 2 large ramps.Their arm scored nearly perfectly. Sometimes, hybrids dont work well with either function and sometimes they work really well on both. I think hybrids rule.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Our team was a hybrid with the emphasis on the ramp ability. We are not any more. We are a hybrid with emphasis on scoring. In the quarter-final matches, once we got a little practice, we were scoring 5 tubes in one minute, then having to go back to the home-zone to attempt the 2-12 lift. As far as I know, 12 seconds per tube is one of (if not the) fastest recorded scoring times. And if our alliance partners can drive up a ramp with eight-twelve inches of leeway depending on your wheelbase, we can easily score the sixty bonus at the end of the match.

Hybrids need to be watched, and not underestimated because of preconceived ideas about needing to specialize a robot to do well.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

At GLR there were a couple of really functional hybrids, like 67, 503, 322, 33, etc.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be able to do both well. Also, I guess the answer to the original post is now yes again (for at GLR)

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

If you get 2 great cappers and one good capper. hard to beat. Y? Because you hvae to spend time setting up the ramp. This means a capper is free to cap. how much time does a robot need to get on a ramp . lets say 20 secs. i know we can cap 2 in 20 secs. 103 can do it. 1302 could cap 1. A row a 5 is 32 points and that does not include what was capped in the first 1:30 or auto

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

330 is the most effective hybrid so far.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

I'd contest that. 67 is also quite an effective hybrid. Those 2 are almost certainly the best so far though. 503 is not far behind though


edit: Remind anyone of 2005? ;)

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

lets see, so 503 is a good hybrid, 67 is a good hybrid, and 330 is a good hybrid...watch out Atlanta...

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Hey 503, 67, and 330... the world championship alliance of '05!

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Team 330 is pleased to hear that our partners from '05 are doing so well. They are great teams and together we made an even greater team. We have the utmost respect for them.

It is highly unlikely that we would wind up in the same division. I rather suspect that if we did, there would be a slight discontinuity in whatever algorithm they use for assigning divisions.

On the other hand it would be really neat to be the first World Champion Alliance to repeat.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Team Fusion at Bayou did wonderful and were regional Finalists with a ramp for one bot at 12" and a VERY effective manipulator. I think it is among the best of its class from what I have seen on other webcasts, and I believe it has great potential if it goes to another regional.

Pavan.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

They are going to Lone Star Regional with us :)

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Frog Force (503) won Great Lakes with an excellent arm/ramp combo.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Please don't make statements like this that are not true.

Of the 7 elimination matches that Team 1824 (the ramp bot) played, we sat in the home zone only once (the last match as we had broken a wire to the motor on our latching system, thus we left the ramp/platform unlocked for the start of that match). Go back and review the tape ;)

In all the other elimination matches we played hard defense on the other side of the field, defending the rack from the opposing alliances best scorer (quite effectively). As an example of how much defense we were playing, we broke our front bumper (Twice) pushing other robots.

Sometimes it's more effective to stop a great scorer, than to score yourself.

In a game where there are alliances (such as this one) your robot does not need to do everything, all it needs to do is a few things great. Hybrids (arm/ramp) generally are good at a most things but great at nothing.

JMHO

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

The SVR winning alliance actually had two hybrids (190 and 1280) and one pure defense robot (1516). 1280 only used their ramps once in the elims, when 190 lost power due to a wire working itself loose mid-match.

I have to say, it was quite impressive watching our backup plan pull through for the points (even though we lost the match)

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

1302 won their second match today, they have a pretty efficient arm, and a ramp that was used several times. Watch out atlanta.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Chalk up 696 in the winning column, and put 1717 in the finalists.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

We seeded 2nd and made it to the finals in Waterloo. Our robot has an arm, ramps and full omni-drive. http://youtube.com/watch?v=dMLWpPU_QTw

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

i don't know if it counts but 291 was a hybrid and they won with us and 48 but they didn't use there ramp so idk if that counts

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Team 190 (Gompei and the HERD) along with their alliance won at SVR.


So yes.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

If I remember right they did use there ramp once or twice in the Quarterfinals. Match one Delphi tried there ramp and then in match two CIA used thiers. yep I was right in Quarterfinal 1 match 2 they did use the ramp. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hlight=buckeye

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

69 Hyper

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

I found that playing good offense is the best defense, If you block their rows with ringers then your playing true defense on them, along with scoring some points for your team.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Chantilly Robotics 612...... at least we made it to the finals :) .

Imad

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

1114 won waterloo regionals, did very well in great lakes regionals, and I can see them winning toronto regionals as well they are kicking some serious butt

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Yes.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

I know that in the SPBLI regional 229 won. They were a hybrid and an excellent capper as i could see on their shirts. Never had to use their ramps thanks to 545.

Re: Has a hybrid won yet?
 

Every single division champion alliance had at least one hybrid robot

Archimedes: 71 and 179
Curie: 330
Galileo: 1319
Newton: 190, 987