To All Ramp Bots.
 

To all of the slitted ramp bots:

I have seen many ramp bots with a slit cut through the center of their ramps, and for robots like our teams it would be very difficult to get up. How hard would it be to cover the "Slit" and what would you cover it with?

This is what I'm talking about.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Our ramps don't have slits in them. This is what they look like:

Team 102 Ramps

Would something like that be able to allow your robot to drive up?

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I think that the issue with tracked ramps is that those robots (the one you showed and countless others) will not make weight otherwise. Robots always cut it close, and slotted or tracked ramps are built with that weight in mind. Good luck with finding ramps to climb, but i think that most teams who have slotted ramps have that as a final design and won't be likely to change it.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Our "slit" is there for two reasons.
#1 to allow room for our arm
#2 weight

Our ramp is 37” wide it. The slit is 13” wide. Most robots will fall of the edge before they fall into the middle.

Do you have wheels in the middle?

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

No, they have an uber-awesome crab drive... like us.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Crab drive is awesome, but it is only uber-awesome when you can climb ramps too.

Wetzel

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Our tracks are there for a purpose. We used angle aluminum for the structure with the angle 'up' so a driver would have an easier time driving up using the sides as a guard rail to stay on. If you can climb a 17 degree slope and have 1 inch of ground clearance, you can climb us. And I would think that teams would design this into their chassis right from the start.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

no slits for us
and have your choice of ramps

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=55336

:)

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I’m not sure that crab drive was the way to go this year. This can be a very defensive game.

Team 45 had a very maneuverable robot and a skilled veteran driver but during the competition in St. Louis they added weight to the robot and traction to their wheels and sacrificed a little maneuverability so they wouldn’t get pushed around as much.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I was amazed at St. Louis how many robots put zero thought into climbing ramps. We never had two robots allied with us that could climb an 18 degree ramp during all the qualification matches. We never got to test our ramp lift until the quarter finals when we finally had two partners who could climb a ramp.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

No slits for us either.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/27499

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I disagree... But I guess we'll see in a couple of days...

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I hope we are ok?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/27172

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Ok :D

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

LOL!! Congrats!! Good point...

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I would think that the Robonauts would be picking teams in elimination rounds based on what I have seen so far :yikes:. I would say make sure to pick a ramp bot that your robot can make it up easily. Many teams have slotted ramps becuase of a weight issue, and that is something they can not get around. :ahh:

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Do you think Scott's picture is a bit reminicent of Jimmie Johnson in his Nextel commercial? I like it though. I need a picture of me with that.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Our team has uber small slits in the ramps. You didn't have to make your ramps out of metal. If you didn't use metal, you would have enough weight to make no slits. Our ramps are very successful moving ramps. http://kyle.fnsnet.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=805

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

116 didn't particularly like the "slitted" ramps either. We could get up them fine, but not as quickly and it took considerably more precision. I understand a few teams need the slits to make weight or store an arm, but otherwise, please try and eliminate them for the good of all climbers.
As for 118, you're going to need to line up as if you were climbing slitted ramps regardless of what ramp you're climbing. If you approach a ramp "corner first" (leading with a wheel), you will lose contact with one or more of your other wheels as you go up the incline, probably leading to that attempt up the ramp not succeeding.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

our team was going to have ramps, and they would be slitted. we can climb up ramps as well as anybody, but we wanted the ramps as a safety net. should we leave them off? b/c our robot is a kick-butt tube scorer (just ask 116). any thoughts would be lovely before palmetto.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I love your tube scorer. It looks so cool. Its like a see-saw.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Our ramps are slitted but we have side rails also and the pieces the robots drive on ar at least 1 foot wide with some heavy duty grip tape. It is just right for a robot to come in and barely have any space for their bot to turn and fall off.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

The reason I am asking this is because for a crab drive system the wheels are not always aligned straight like many robots have in rows of eight. In a crab drive every wheel turns when you tap the stick so the slotted ramps are very dangerous especially for us because it is much much harder to make sure all the wheels are exactly parallel with the ramp.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Don't worry, we have ramps made of single sheets of honeycombed fiberglass ;) Sturdy, great support, lightweight, you'll love us. Don't forget team 1885 if you need another team on your alliance :D

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Yeah that kind of does look like Jimmie with the Nextel Cup. If they never won a cup never listen to them.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

IF (and only if) you can put on the ramps without sacrificing your scoring ability. 217 removed their platforms in St. Louis because (among other reasons) they couldn't see the tubes as well with them on. 612 also made an improvement during the eliminations when they took their ramps off (no longer had to worry about them deploying early, and gave more time to score).
In my opinion, it is better to be great at one aspect than mediocre at multiple.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

118's crab has more pushing power than most robots. It will handle defense better than any other drivetrain.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

so if we practice with it, and it works just as well as it did before, then keep it? and if not, scrap the idea? that sounds good to me. hopefully the engineers will listen to me:D . thanks for the advice.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Mediocre? Do I need to remind you to go back to the picture of Scott with the banner from our win? A bot with a strong ramp can be a descent to excelent scorer also. If you don't think so, watch how we handle Purdue.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I don't think anyone said that it is impossible to be good at both. Lil' Lavery's point, which I agree with, is that a team shouldn't compromise their scoring arm/lift/whatever by adding ramps that will end up being mediocre. Excelling at ramping or scoring is far more useful than being average at both.

If you think that your team can do both well and neither is severely hampered by the other, then good for you and your team! That means that you have confidence in your robot and you designed it well.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Our ramp has a rather large slit, and I wish it weren't that way. We can't cover the slit because we have to access our electronics. You can see here.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I was not meaning to imply that 829 was mediocre in any way. Nor any other hybrid team. It was a general reference to some teams sacrificing the ability to do one thing excellently for the ability to do multiple. Many teams can be successful at doing multiple things, such as 829 has quite clearly proven.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

No matter how many mentors, fabrication resources, student, money etc... there is a point when a robot's design can't be any more efficient.

At this point, some teams pull off amazing bots that do everything (team 71's standard practice). Most of the team, teams are below this point and attempting to do both will put them worse off then if they concentrated on just one.

Of course there are exceptions, but that is pretty much the way it is in FIRST.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Team 71 doesn't do everything, in fact, they are often the best example of finding a niche within an alliance (and almost always the most effective niche) and executing it to the max.
On the other hand, 254 would be a pretty good example of doing almost every game task each year.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Don't worry guys. I was kidding. Not really offended. But here is the way I see it from experience. Two scoring bots and a defender with a ramp will dominate. It is to difficult in the finals to be a power scorer when your opponent is a power scorer as well.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Just a quick thought from an arm-chair programmer who lacks some skill. Is it possible to code in a tank-steer mode for your system? Flip a toggle on the control and all four wheels align themselves parallel to the frame and stick control reverts to a two stick tank steer... Maybe you only have a single stick drive so that is not an option...

APS

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Team 1501 has watched Team 71 for years be dominant at one aspect of the game and this year we chose to utilize their philosophy by building a robot that does one thing very well. If you haven't seen it check out the videos in CD!

Our bot has two wings that are 2.25" high with two angled entry surfaces to prevent being blocked at our end zone line. We can deploy them in less than 2 secs and then lift two robots to a height of 14.5" from the floor in under 4 seconds. We also valved the trolley of our bot so it will continue lifting after the power is cut at the end of the match.

Our plan is to be a noise maker to limit our opponents scoring and then return to our end zone and lift two bots for the 60 point bonus.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Possibly have the slit removeable for easy acess to the electronics?

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I am worried for your robot, those tracks look very small. FIRST robots are not usually the most precise driving robots. I saw many failed attempts with teams trying to drive up ramps that only had 1-2" slots in the middle of them... just for the safety of your bot I would not want to drive up those ramps. FIRST bots like to drive on angles and in arch's, and not in strait lines which will make it difficult to get up those ramps in 15 seconds or so...

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

We were thinking about slits but there is the topic of 3 wheeled bot so this should be a video if i am right VIDEO HERE

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Our slotted ramps are 12" wide each with a 10" slit in the middle. They will have both outer and inner guard rails by the end of Thursday in Pittsburgh. If you aren't driving like a bat out of heck, they should be more than sufficient to keep your drive wheels "in the pipe....5x5" (random "Aliens" reference).

To 118, what about programming a "tank steer mode" into your control system that makes your swerve drive behave exactly like a single joystick (or double? not sure of your joystick setup) tank drive when climbing the ramp? Lock the steering to point the wheels straight ahead, then use the single or double joystick default driving code as a starting point. Simply avoid allowing extra degrees of steering freedom during ramp ascent.

If cappers are asking rampbots to improve their ramp designs, I feel it's only natural and fair for all of us rampbots to ask cappers what they can do to become better climbers! Let's have both robot styles think about the problem and approach a solution from both ends!

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Don't worry, we've thought it out already. ;) Our ramp has rails on the sides to keep any robots for falling off, and these also prevent any robots from falling down the middle. (We will only allow compatable robots on, as only certain drivetrains will work. Our strength is our arm, so we don't plan to use the ramp much.)

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

They can't. 118 has a "co-axial swerve", with all 4 drive modules powered by the same set of motors (in this case, 4 CIM and 2 FP through a DeWalt transmission). Their front and rear wheel set are each steered independently to change direction.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

How about guard rails? They should help prevent you from falling off the tracks, right?

We had to cut the slots in the wood on Ship Day to make weight.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I forgot about the V6. All the same direction. Guard rails are still the best bet - they can still program their system to lock their wheels into a limited amount of angular travel around "straight ahead" position so once they're in the track, they can't punch holes through the rails with the V6 or oversteer out of it.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

when we made our ramps we tried to think of all teh diffrent ways a team would make their robot and then decided to go with the honeycomb fiberglass to hold the weight and a total sheet with no slit to adapt to any drivetrain:D

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Our ramp:

1> Welded Box steel frame
2> Skinned with sheet aluminum (no slits)
3> 37" wide (for sloppy entrance)
4> 16 degree angle with 2-8 degree transisions back to flat on our robot (difficult to bottom out and no backspooling of the drive motors on a ramp)
5> non-skid surface for added traction
6> 76" x 37" flat top (@ 13.5" hight) for parking (when unfolded)


We discussed slits when we were designing the robot and came to the conclusion that slits = not all robots will be able to climb and our strategy is to be the best rampbot out there.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

we decided yesterday that we are going to put one ramp on our robot for palmetto.

hopefully, it'll be an elevator so anyone could get on it.

and our goal at palmetto is to do the picking, instead of being picked. b/c 30 extra points in all of our qualifying matches at vcu would've gotten us undeafeated.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

YAH WE ALSO WEIGHED IN on THE ASSUMPTION THAT ONLY ONE ROBOT WITH RAMPS WOULD BE IN THE FINALS MATCH AT ANY COMPETITION AND IT WOULD MOST LIKELY HAVE TWO AND FOR AN ADDED BONUS WE HAVE AN ARM THAT ADDS AN EXTRA ATTRACTION TO A WELL SCORING ROBOT THAT LETS IT ALL OUT AT THE END OF THE MATCH

http://www.virginiafirst.org/FRC/photos.shtml

chek out the championship day we are the purple robot with the suspension bridge

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I was quite surprised by the number of teams who didnt design their bots to be able to drive up ramps.. We figured we would need to drive up 30 degree's and designed our drivetrain like last years which was very successfull climbing up the ramps. The only problem we have now is that a lot of ramps are so skinny and have no side rails.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

It was amazing how many robots thought that 1/4" clearance can get up a ramp at Manchester. Even if they are possible the best ramps EVER, like ours:cool:, they had no chance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B7FL...elated&search=

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I was suprised how many teams didn't account for their bumbers when trying to create a bot that could climb a ramp. At Pittsburgh the majority of the robots who had trouble climbing ramps had trouble due to their bumpers. Admittedly our robot had some trouble with our bumpers as well but we could make it up every ramp if our drivers got alligned.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Yeah im suprised as well being a ramp bot was difficult as some teams insisted upon zero ground clearance robots however most bots were able to get up our ramps as we built them as two roll out sheets of diomond plate with sand mixed with epoxy for a covering that made them extremely grippy. there are no slits and there 37 inches wide 19 degree incline with enough space on top for room to spare. the thing about being a ramp bot is you have to play good defense and pick an alliance that can score and easily get up your ramps such as 537-charger robotics and 2194-fondy fire who helped carry us to a victory in wisconsin. Our ramps were by far one of the lowest tech ramps there, spring loaded with a pin pull release but they are reliable and durable and 14" tall. one thing about the angle aluminum siderails is that some bots bumpers stick over the edges and can not clear these walls. i wish our team had the know how to build one of the many lift designs as they are way cool. we had also planned an arm on our bot but we maxed out at 117lbs with just our two ramps so scrap that idea. well good luck to all ramp bots just keep in mind robots do fall off and as in out quarter final robots on top of you can break things like plexiglass covers oh what a fix zipties, angle alumminum, and imagination. it was crazy.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

This is probably one of the limiting factors in side rails. We have rails on ours, but only 2" high, because we don't want to interfere with bumpers. We know 2" is still good though, because any team with bumpers lower to the ground than that has them mounted illegally.

And to rampbots: more important than guide rails, is a back rail (if you only have a ramp on one side). I know we fell off of one of our partner's ramps by driving over the edge, and our partners loved being able to drive to the edge of our ramp and just hit a mechanical stop in the playoffs.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

We've got that too. ;)

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

There was only one or two robots that couldn't climb our ramp, and one of them was a Mecanum drive.

The gap in our ramp is about 20" wide, so any bots with wheels 21" or wider were fine.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Our robot is more lift rather than ramp. This was at the pits of the Silicon Valley Regional: http://www.youtube.com/v/7WmOQCdFUvg

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I noticed that on 973's robot Ramposaurous there were silts that teams did fall though. We're going to cover them over with something before Davis.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I saw that happen (not to mention, 675's pit was right next to 1070's, you can see our crate in that video) and it's a pretty good design.

675 has a slot as well and I think somebody did get caught in it (then we added a bunch of plates to the ramp and still made weight).

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

Theres also the team who had a wheel base that almost wasn't as wide at the slit. Almost got into deep water with that one.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

If that happened, I musn'tve been paying attention. I did see the practice match, though, where that one bot hit the lip on our ramp and kinda folded it back up.

Re: To All Ramp Bots.
 

I just ordered more honeycomb aluminum. The Digital Goats ramps will be "slitless" for Atlanta.