Re: Is this fair?
 

Is what happened fair? No, absolutely not.

The job of head referee is the most difficult job in all of FIRST. The head ref holds the most power over how good or bad a FIRST competition is perceived to be. The referee (judge) is given rules (laws) to enforce at a competition. The rules are made by FIRST (legislator) and the rules are meant to be applied by the referee. It is how the head referre applies rules which makes him a good or bad referee. If a referree aplies the rules by the letter than he will be perviced as a bad. If a referee applies the rules judiciously than he will be perceived as a good referee.

This team didn't cause their problem by being inspected late. A minor procedural error by an inspector did not cause this teams problem. It was a bad judgment by a referee that caused their frustration.

Sometimes I like to think FIRST invented gracious professionalism to deal with these situations :)

Re: Is this fair?
 

Sorry for you guys, if i had been jipped out of a match like that i would be furious. not because of rank be because their so much fun

Re: Is this fair?
 

Luckily rank doesnt mean that much. High seeded picking teams never really go by ranking (or they shouldnt anyway). Scouting is how to pick teams. At the BAE we picked the 38 seeded team and won. And our opponents in the finals had the dead last ranked team (46th out of 46 bots) against us.

But this wasnt fair and was a big unfair misunderstanding and im sorry to hear this happened in first. Just remeber life with always throw you curve balls..

Re: Is this fair?
 

im thinkin that the ref was unfair, he should have known that if the delay is caused by a first official, then first should eat the time for the match or w/e, i dont think the refs understand how much pride we put into our bots, how much effort we put in it. i nearly left i was so pissed off when we lost a match, i definatly understand your point and i would say that they did not train the inspector properly. but being a volunteer i cant say its right to blame the inspector, blame the person who trained him...

Re: Is this fair?
 

This happens, every year, to many teams. It is sad your team had to go through it. I hope the rest of your season goes well though. I also hope that FIRST works towards solving such petty problems that cause a lot of heart aches to a lot of teams. It isn't fair, but we have to deal with it.

Re: Is this fair?
 

I would like to apolagize. I didn't mean to jump on this subject as hard as I did. It just seems to me that no one should even bother with placing blame. Instead, we should just learn from our mistakes and move on. I hope the rest of the season goes well for you guys. And if you ever need help programming your bot', please feel free to ask.

Re: Is this fair?
 

Too my knowledge teams get a sticker with the name of that event and then a color coded sticker that goes on it the first one that means the robot passed 100%. I don't think they initial the sticker. Since I don't do Robot Inspections for that and many other reasons I can't really give you a correct answer, however what I can tell you is don't blame the volunteer and they're only human and do what they have been instructed to. If anything I would blame the Lead Robot Inspector since they did not properly train their crew. As far as the referee is concerned If I were them I would've let you played since all I would need is a confirmation which can be done over the headset (which means nobody had to find anybody thats why there are 2-way radios at the event All they had to do is chirp and ask). I wonder how many other teams got this treatment at other events. NJ was pretty quiet and I don't think we seen any Robot Inspection issues.

Re: Is this fair?
 

Stuff like this is bound to happen every once in a while not everything is perfect not even FIRST, Gasp I know but it's true mistakes happen, if anything you might get a rematch or something. Just enjoy the game and dont lose hope, cheer, help other teams and just continue to play.

Re: Is this fair?
 

i'm really sorry to hear this happened! i think that maybe FIRST should have a look at their rules concerning ref's descisions being so final.

your team should not be punished for a mistake that was not their fault.
[im not saying it was anyones in particular, but it sure wasnt thiers]

Re: Is this fair?
 

Been there, had that happen. Got over it.

Fair? A Fair is a place you take your kids. FIRST isn't fair, well hello, neither is life.

I am truly sorry that you ended up sitting out a match due to human error, and that your alliance ended up paying a penalty as well, but sometimes, that's the way it goes. Perhaps it isn't the desired outcome, but how you recover and deal with it is the mark of a gracious professional.

Don

Re: Is this fair?
 

Truly sorry to hear you plight. Remember, it was an honest mistake, therefore it should be forgiven. If, however, the next time you see the officials and they are sitting in wing back chairs, tenting their fingers while saying phrases such as "Excellent" and "evil laugh", feel free to hold a grudge.

A communication break down in a organization as large as FIRST is totally expected. Just remember, life goes on.
It might not have been the most fun thing to go through but look at it like this: You can now be sure that inspector will never have this happen to another team he inspects again. You took the bullet so someone else is spared. Thats selfless.
The inspectors and refs are only human and make mistakes too. Cut them some slack and enjoy the experience of FIRST.

Chris

Re: Is this fair?
 

"No matter what" [FIRST] "throws at you, you will prevail"?

This isn't Survivor: Florida. It's FIRST. If an organization is flawed in such a manner that it unintentionally yet continuously throws up roadblocks to random teams, roadblocks which keep the teams from getting the most out of the experience they paid for, then that organization must look themselves in the mirror and find out what's wrong. Sometimes, students and mentors must take a stand and help that organization open their eyes to the larger problem at hand.

I feel very bad for the volunteer inspector who forgot to sign the stickers, but the fact he didn't even know it was required indicates a much larger failure of the system. Teams pay far too much money and are far too busy dealing with their own internal matters for anyone to expect them to know all the "behind the scenes" rules and monitor the performance of the regional staff on hand. Teams rightfully expect that all training and communication has been effectively conducted prior to the event, and that the staff is effectively qualified to run the event smoothly.

While it's natural to look at each disappointing incident as its own little monster and tell the kids affected don't worry about it, you won't have to deal with that monster again, how many of these "isolated" events are we going to have to witness before we begin to believe there is a larger problem the FIRST community is facing? I think years of teams sitting back and "going with the flow" have actually let FIRST settle into an undeserved comfort zone, leading us to this point in time where the pot is finally boiling over and we all must find a way to clean up the spills together.

The FIRST spirit isn't about ignoring systemic problems and hoping they'll go away. The FIRST spirit is built upon a foundation of problem solving. Let's identify and help solve the problems this organization is facing, not sweep them under the carpet. Thank you to this student who voiced his concern over this problem in such a respectful manner. I will offer the same advice to you that so many others have - stay positive and find ways to make the most out of your situation (perhaps help verify that other teams who've been inspected at future events have signed stickers). However, in addition to this, I offer you the hope that one day soon FIRST mentors will join together and actively seek to work with FIRST to solve the problems we observe instead of simply looking past them.

The word of the day is "communication", kids. Everyone, let's help spread the word.

Re: Is this fair?
 

The one thing I want to point out about this is that while I agree FIRST has some things to fix, I dont see this as a "systematic problem". We didnt hear about any other teams who had this issue... so either the inspector was flustered by the late inspection and didnt know, or he didnt hand out any other stickers at the event, or others werent caught, or others caught the issue... etc etc.

Either way, I agree with the "communication" statement, but communication is communication, its not venting, yelling, being upset, or acting un-GP. Its frustrating to miss a match, but more and more this year people want to throw blame, and they want to throw it at FIRST. Lets remember this isnt about the robots, its about how the students are inspired by their mentors. Students dont work one on one with volunteers or FIRST officials, and while the competition is the "jazz" of program, its not the heart. The heart is your team and how you deal with things. Our team didnt get picked for the first time ever in regionals this year... you know what they did? they cheared on other teams and got excited that they had time to practice for Boston. Its not about the competition, and while it can be frustrating, we all need to take a deep breath and figure out how we can fix these things if they really bother us that much, instead of blaming the system.

*gets off soapbox* :D

Re: Is this fair?
 

Kim,
I agree completely with what you say here. However, we cannot throw "inspiration" in front of problems whenever they arise. GP is a great thing, but it cannot be used as a defense or a reason for everything.

This situation is very unfortunate, and should NOT have occured. It is right to be upset about it...but you have to move on and "get back up on that horse" so to speak. Good luck.

Re: Is this fair?
 

All I have to say is that at least this didnt happen in one of the final matches that actually count. You guys still have the chance to do good. Like others have said already, just because you dont have a high standing, doesn't mean that you wont get picked, we've all seen it happen before.

The trick to getting through life is to learn to roll with the punches. :P