Air Compressors
 

does anyone know if air compressors are allowed in the pits for pneumatic tools and such?

Thanks




-Andrew Nabors
Team 1671

Re: Air Compressors
 

team 254 had one so I'm assuming they're all right.

Re: Air Compressors
 

Many teams who do have small air compressors in their pits may do so because of pneumatic tires on their robots.

Re: Air Compressors
 

Team 980 brings a small compressor for riveting.

Re: Air Compressors
 

Compressed air is also handy for blowing metal chips out of the robot.

Re: Air Compressors
 

If you use the compressor provided in the kit, it must be set up exactly as required if it was mounted on the robot, with regulator pressure not to exceed 60 psi, and max pressure at 120 psi. :)

Re: Air Compressors
 

Andrew,
There is no specific rule against it. However, common sense does rule here and electrical systems being stretched along with the small pit size will cause some problems if you bring a big compressor. If you trip a breaker, other teams will not be happy.

Re: Air Compressors
 

thanks guys!!

very helpful!

Re: Air Compressors
 

They seem to be very easy to trip...

At LA we were running 4 battery chargers and a Vex battery charger and our braker was constantly tripping... I have a feeling it was one of the neighbor teams though.

Re: Air Compressors
 

if you dont mind me asking what do you use vex for. my team has 2 kits and i was looking for creative uses.

thanks
jared

Re: Air Compressors
 

alrighty ill keep that in mind. thanks!




note* to teams going to UC Davis competition in week 5 there is a chance that our team will be hosting Sundial at the UC Davis comp. we will let everyone know later for sure!!!

Re: Air Compressors
 

Well, last year we used them as backup batteries. But, since the rules say we have to use the new charger we no longer do that.

The other use we have now is to power our chiclet. We also run all the functions of our control board off the battery off of a vex battery (we don't use this feature at competition though) for exhibitions and such.

Re: Air Compressors
 

You can use any backup battery charger as of Team Update #13

Re: Air Compressors
 

Dug up this tread from last year. Same question this year. Are small air compressors allowed in the pits this year for such things as pneumatic tires, air tools, blowing out shavings in your robot and such? I searched through the manual and other than <R90>, <R93>, and <R94> concerning using the KoP air compressor to charge the robot pneumatic system I can find no reference to any rule prohibiting a small air compressor for other use in the pits. We took a small compressor to our regional last year with no problem but at the championship in Atlanta one of the green shirt safety judges told us they were not allowed in the pits and that we couldn't use it. I explained that we weren't using it to charge our robot pneumatics and that in fact we had no pneumatics on our robot but he said no matter and told us to put it away. I didn't know the green shirt safety judges had that authority but I felt it more prudent not to argue and just comply. It wasn't a big deal just that we had pneumatic tires on our cart and one of the tires had a slow leak that needed airing up every once and a while. I am wondering if anyone else has had an issue with a small air compressor in the pits?

Re: Air Compressors
 

They don't have that authority, to my knowledge. Unless, of course, it's unsafe.

Also, you need to look in Section 3. No reference to compressors, and the only one for air is air horns as noisemakers. So it should be allowed.

If your cart tires have a slow leak, you might want to slime them.

Re: Air Compressors
 

Thanks but no issue with the cart tires this year. New solid wheels and it rolls much better!

I still would like to have a small compressor in the pits for blowing out metal shavings, etc. but didn't want to bother packing and taking it to competition if it wasn't allowed.

Re: Air Compressors
 

Chuck,
Many of the Green Shirts are employees of Underwriter's Labs or trained by UL people at some point. If they objected it was likely the size, noise or electrical load that concerned them. They are charged with helping teams be safe, in the pits and on the field. Their concern is for the safety of all participants, guests and visitors.

Re: Air Compressors
 

I don't know what the rules are exactly but we had one in our pits at San diego and no problem with it.

Re: Air Compressors
 

I agree 100% and am grateful for their presence and participation. Odd thing was, the compressor is pretty small (about the smallest 110VAC one that Harbor Freight sells) and wasn’t plugged up or running at the time. It was stored on a shelf and he just saw it and said it wasn’t allowed as a blanket statement. That is what made me wonder if we had missed something in the rules. The last thing we want is to violate ANY rule either intentionally or inadvertently. Just wondering if we had missed something or if the rules on air compressors might vary from event to event.

Re: Air Compressors
 

Chuck,
Without talking with the safety person, I am unsure why he/she would disapprove. The defining documents are Section 3-At The Events and the First Safety Manual. Neither specifically address compressors but both make a reference to local venue restrictions which may be enforced by the safety personnel.
On a similar note, high current battery chargers are not allowed. So whether I see one or the safety people see one, you will be asked to remove it from your pit for safety reasons.
I think it might be appropriate to tell you that I have witnessed 3/4 HP compressors with 5 and 10 gallon tanks, and 50 amp battery chargers as well as team built power distribution panels in pits over the years. I have also witnessed, open flames and steel grinding (shower of sparks) in the pits as well.

Re: Air Compressors
 

Chuck-

I would just offer two comments:

- the safety judges at the competitions are just that - judges. They have no enforcement authority at all. They should not be directing you to do anything, and certainly do not have the authority to tell you to remove anything from your pit area. They can - out of a legitimate safety concern - suggest that you might or might not want to use some item. But they can not direct you to do so. The majority of the safety judges are very good, well meaning volunteers. However, every now and then a small subset of them get a little bit over zealous (anyone else remember the "you have to wear gloves when lifting your robot" debacle from last year?). The only people at the event that have the responsibility to enforce the rules are the referees (on the field), the robot inspectors (for the robot), and the authorized FIRST-appointed lead positions. And even they just have the authority to enforce the existing rules as written - they are not to make up any new ones.

- that said, one of the desired uses of the small air compressor mentioned is something to avoid. Using compressed air to blow chips out of a mechanism is a very bad idea. In any reasonable-quality machine shop, you will almost always find that this is a prohibited practice. The problem is that blowing chips out causes them to fly everywhere, and you have no control over their direction or final destination. They can, and frequently do, end up embedded in electronics, thrown into gears, stuck on precision surfaces, or tossed just about anywhere else that they don't belong (I have had to completely tear down and rebuild lathe chucks that were completely jammed with swarf that had been blown into the mechanism by inexperienced "machinists" more than once). In the worst case, chips can fly back towards you where they can drift around safety glasses and into your eyes. If you need to remove chips from a machined area, a shop vac is a much better tool of choice.

-dave

Re: Air Compressors
 

All, I didn’t mean at all to criticize the green shirt safety judges. :o I value and respect them and am truly glad they have become an integral part of the competitions. Our team strives very hard for the safety award and thus I didn’t want to do anything to jeopardize our image with any of the safety judges at competition. I was simply getting stuff out to pack for competition and got to thinking about the small air compressor and thought about the safety judge last year in Atlanta and was wondering if I had missed something somewhere in the rules or Q&A, etc. The safety judge was in no way nasty about the issue and I am certain that he truly thought that there was some rule against it. Everyone is human and there was no issues or hard feelings at all on our part. I doubt most of the team even knew of it anyway. The whole conversation took place between the safety judge and myself and there may have been a couple of students in the pit at the time. I see now that my comments about the authority of the green shirt safety judges were not exactly worded very well. Sorry, I really wasn’t thinking much about it at the time. :o

Dave, thank you very much for the wise advice. I humbly admit that I have always taught the team to blow out the robot after any drilling, etc. was done on it prior to powering it up. Especially those Victors so as to not let the magic smoke out! After reading your well-rationalized post I see now that I have been teaching a poor practice to our team. :o I see no reason for our air compressor in the pits now so no need to bring it. Thank you for taking a moment to educate me today! I appreciate very much when someone takes their time to teach me something especially if it is something I thought I was doing right but really wasn’t. I will pass the knowledge on.

Re: Air Compressors
 

Chuck,
I did not feel you were doing that. I thought you had a legitimate question. I would like to back up Dave's comments about blowing out the robot. The Victors are open on the top and blowing air around them just serves to push the debris further into the corners inside the case. The same goes for bearings and fans. Cover all electronics when you need to machine and/or turn the robot on it's side. I picked a chip out of the pins on an RC for a team last week at Midwest. A vacuum and a paint brush did not remove it and it was so small you could only see it with a bright light. Removal cleared the "no data radio" and "RC Hardware" lights.