Chief Delphi - [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

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Tristan Lall

17-03-2007 12:24

[YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

Late in the qualifying round of the 2007 Magnolia Regional, match 71 is played between two alliances. The gameplay itself is unimportant, but sufficent to say, Red routs Blue.

But after the match takes place, an announcement is made. "A member of Blue 3 was observed by the referees to be wearing their safety glasses on their forehead during the match. Accordingly, they were disqualified by the referees for a safety violation."

Was this justifiable by the 2007 rules? Imagine that you're the head referee, and you make the call!

Travis Hoffman

17-03-2007 12:38

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

<S01> only gives referees omnipotent jurisdiction (that should be a legal term) over ROBOT-related safety violations.....

Code:

 

<S01>

If at any time a ROBOT'S operation or design is deemed unsafe by the head referee, it will
 

receive a 10-point penalty and be disabled for the remainder of the match. If the safety violation is due to the ROBOT design, the head referee has the option to not allow the ROBOT back onto the field until the design has been corrected. Examples of unsafe operation include uncontrolled motion that cannot be stopped by the drivers, throwing GAME PIECES into the audience etc.

I fear this is a case of a rule (<T01>) without consequence. FIRST says don't do it but doesn't spell out any punishment for stated infractions......

Code:

 

 

<T01> 
 

 

 



Teams are responsible for providing their own safety glasses at each event. All team

 

members, including coaches, must wear safety glasses while in the pit or on the play field 

during matches.

Until the rules are further amended to explicitly indicate a penalty for the infraction (or put it under the S01 umbrella), no disablement, penalty, or DQ should be levied against alliances whose drive team members forget to wear their safety glasses. That is something the esteemed referees should ALWAYS check before the match begins anyway. Shame on them, in this case.

By the way, cutting and pasting from the game manual into CD is a pain in the posterior. If anyone knows of a straightforward, clean method of doing this, please enlighten me.

dlavery

17-03-2007 18:44

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

See - Travis and I can agree on something! (shoot, here I was hoping for "Clash Of The Bull-Headed Titans - The Reprise" but it looks like it isn't going to happen this time)

Travis got it right - Rule <S01> covers robot operation, not player actions. Rule <T01> does not provide for a penalty. If the referee were to assign a penalty as a "<T01> violation" they would be creating an extension of the rule that does not exist. And since we already know that the referees are not allowed to create additional rules, this would not work. So it appears that the only way the referee could assess a valid penalty for the action by Blueateam would be if the safety glasses slipped off the head of the team member, fell on the floor, the Blueateam member tripped over them while trying to retrieve the safety glasses, and as a result fell outside of the Alliance Zone thus collecting a 10-point penalty for a <G44> violation...

-dave

Travis Hoffman

17-03-2007 18:49

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 599383)

See - Travis and I can agree on something! (shoot, here I was hoping for "Clash Of The Bull-Headed Titans - The Reprise" but it looks like it isn't going to happen this time)

This time.....ehehehehe.;)

Now I believe Tristan may have posted this YMTC in response to this exact thing happening at UTC today. At least that's what one of my friends watching that particular webcast told me. Tristan or anyone else in the know, please verify. We may have another ref crew to re-edumacate.

Tristan Lall

17-03-2007 18:55

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. Hoffman (Post 599387)

Can you believe it? All three of us agree. And yes, this was posted in response to a similar situation that occured at UTC (paraphrased from the announcer's description).

Karthik

17-03-2007 18:59

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall (Post 599393)

Can you believe it? All three of us agree. And yes, this was posted in response to a similar situation that occured at UTC (paraphrased from the announcer's description).

You have to be kidding me? A ref DQed a team for not wearing safety glasses?

Jay Trzaskos

17-03-2007 19:00

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

More than one team actually, I saw this happen two, possibly three times over the past couple of days.

dlavery

17-03-2007 19:18

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall (Post 599393)

Can you believe it? All three of us agree. And yes, this was posted in response to a similar situation that occured at UTC (paraphrased from the announcer's description).

Wait a minute. Travis, Tristan and I all agree on something? At the same time?

I am going to be sure to go to church in the morning, because I am sure that the world is coming to an end. :D

-dave

Joel J

17-03-2007 19:23

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

Yup.. happened twice today at UTC. It was weird.

Alex Cormier

17-03-2007 19:25

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel J. (Post 599420)

Yup.. happened twice today at UTC. It was weird.

what was the call made, penalty?

Joel J

17-03-2007 19:26

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Cormier (Post 599423)

what was the call made, penalty?

DQ.

BoyWithCape195

17-03-2007 19:36

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

The bots were also disabled the instant a referee noticed it. I am just curious as to how they didnt notice it before the match started.

mtaman02

17-03-2007 21:31

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

Since I'm a bit more lenient person if this is their 1st offense I will issue a warning, If it is repeated then they will be disabled for the match until they can learn that safety glasses / goggles were made to protect the eyes and not the forehead nor the brain - thats what helmets and hard hats are for.

EricH

18-03-2007 01:55

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

This is not the only rule that has no penalty for violation. Should a penalty be put in place here? Maybe.

[sarcasm]Let the guy play, and let a bolt come flying over the player station wall and put his eye out.[/sarcasm] Pull the glasses down over his eyes by force if necessary, but get him to put them in the proper location. If he wants his head protected, find a hard hat. Or, give him a warning, then if he does it again later, tell him he isn't allowed on the field (team level--warn drive coach to keep him out if he doesn't wear his PPE), but don't DQ.

Oh, and Travis--try using the Select Text tool and using Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V, then removing extra line breaks as needed to copy the manual. (Adobe Acrobat)

Travis Hoffman

18-03-2007 06:11

Re: [YMTC]: Safety mistake costs team the match?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 599733)

Oh, and Travis--try using the Select Text tool and using Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V, then removing extra line breaks as needed to copy the manual. (Adobe Acrobat)

Actually, I should have been more clear. Copying from the .pdf is no problem, but upon pasting into CD, the formatting blows up, font sizes randomly change.....it's a big mess. Even code tags don't completely fix the issue. I totally blame Brandon. :) Thanks for the input though.

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