Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I suspect that as the parity between tube scoring on each team increases, and the quality of the bots increase, defense will also increase. I think the nationals will be a game of you MUST have a ramp to compete - good ramps will become commonplace. Because of that, I suspect that tube scoring may be what gives you the couple extra points to win.

So while ramps will be absolutely necessary, the winners will be the one who score the most tubes.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I know at both GSR and BMR the winning alliances had ramps.

The last match at the BMR had no tubes scored at all and the win was decided by the ramp.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

It depends on how teams want to play the game.

If alliances want to outscore eachother with tubes, ramps can grab that win, but all it takes is a row of 7 to beat a row of 6 and two robots lifted 12". It would take a column of 2 to tie the match, and it would take another tube in that row of 6 to win it. If you're focused on getting your robots up, there's no guarantee that you'll have that row of 7.

If teams are playing effective defense, there's no guarantee that the opposing alliance will have a row of 7.

You don't have to have ramps to win. You need a good set of scorers, maybe a defensive robot to either keep opposing teams from getting in the way of your scorers or from scoring them selves (either with tubes or getting lifted by their alliance partner), and a good strategy.

Our alliance took a risk in Indiana and went without a lifter. We were picked because the alliance captain believed that us and 931 could score enough to keep ramps from beating us. We could have gone onto the finals and maybe won the regional with a good enough strategy.

Unfortunately, luck ran against us and we lost in the semis.

Moral of this story is that you don't absolutely NEED ramps to win, they are just a good idea. We lost because of other circumstances out of our control, but that's not important right now. The fact is that we didn't lose because we didn't have a ramp. It wouldn't even have made a difference even if we did have a ramp.

I see ramps as a safety. If it's looking bad, then get those robots up.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Ramps have been very key in this year’s game. No matter how good the tube scoring robot may be their will always be a robot out there playing defense. This changes the accuracy of that robot which is why every alliance needs a ramp robot no matter how good the tube scoring robot may be. Just getting one robot above 4in. can have a dramatic change in the score. Therefore, in my opinion ramps are very key to the success of the game no matter what the odds are.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

It depends on the alliances playing. If they're unmatched to the point where one alliance can get that many more tubes up, ramps mean nothing.

If the alliances are balanced, then it will come down to ramps or a spoiler.

The spoilers are extremely powerful if placed right. I expect to see some alliances in Atlanta choosing to use their last seconds to place a spoiler, rather than get up the ramps.

That said, I think that on Einstein it will come down to ramps, because teams that make it that far will generally have either extremely good scoring ability, or amazing defensive capabilities.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

This years game is a game played mainly in two different ways. 537 has been to a regional that played both styles of gameplay. At wisconsin there were a ton of good rampbots, and very few bots that could score fast, so if you couldnt ramp you were screwed, tubes were basically a tiebreaker. At buckeye there was tons of tube scoring, but ramps were still important. 537, 494, and 70 ran out of tubes in the back putting up 78 points and a sea of red on the rack, however the blue alliance with their 20 points on the rack and ramps were able to beat us by 2 points in semis. Either way ramps are an important aspect to any winning alliance, as just a few strategically placed tubes can eliminate the option for a high scoring alliance to get a row of 7 or 8.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Bingo!

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Ed,

Team #39 won the Arizona Regional losing only one qualifying match and one tournament match without a ramp. The qualifying match we lost, we drove up a ramp but our alliance partner pushed a ringer under the ramp and we did not get the bonus points. You can win without a ramp!

Ken

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I disagree with the earlier statement that says that ramps are the key. I believe, as with most sports, it is not how you score that matters. Defense is what really matters.(We were ranked fourth at the end of the elimination rounds without scoring any points on the rack. Also, up until that point, we only got on a ramp once.)

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I think that Ramps are a key to when you are down points but I saw one team only plays to drop down ramps at waterloo which is really sort opf useless 3vs 3 iin a match and only 2 players play!

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

In Brazil, the team #1382, was a very good ramp bot, which almost teams could go up... and scored once in all the regional... and were the Second seed and the event winners playing with two scorer bots... i believe that a reliable ramp allied with a strong deffense (by the same bot) and maybe 3 or 4 strategically tube scoring, is hard to be beaten...

this year game is all about strategy!! is possible to win with or without ramps...

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I agree with the aforementioned strategy of using clever and precise ringer placement in a form of "offensive defense" to impede the opposing alliance from creating large lift-killing rows. However, if your alliance teammates are defended well and are prevented from getting on your panels/ramps as ours were (granted we lift 15" in 1.5 seconds; the opponents played spectacular defense) then that strategy can be defeated as ours was.

And there are robots out there, that if you leave them for 15 to get on panels/ramps can score enough to do serious damage. I witnessed Beach 'Bot (team 330) place 3 rings in the final 15 seconds to extend a row point total by a factor of 8. That being said even leaving such a robot alone with three ringers aready on the rack can mean 64 points or more aka death to ramps.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Yeah, I really think that if a team gets at least 64 points on the rack the other team can't win with ramps. Also when the teams go back to get points on the ramps. The other alliance can keep on scoring making their score even higher.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Try ramps alone. 2 tubes forces a tie (with ramps vs. 6 tubes), 3 a win for the ramps. 7 tubes ends the match for the other alliance.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Yes true but the other alliance at the end could probilly score at least 3-5 more ringers if their arm is good on the rack making the score even more for that alliance!!!!!