Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

i am wondering Has ramps been a key thing for success?

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I can't see how you can win without a ramp.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

1114 has won a lot of there ramps by just scoring at the waterloo regional. Getting 6 or 7 around usally makes sure of that too!!!!!!

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

The Chesapeake winning alliance scored a total of 0 bonus points. The UTC winning alliance would have won all their matches that they won without any ramp points. The Peachtree winning alliance was rack dominant. The New Jersey winning alliance typically shone when their opponents went back to ramp up, giving them free reign to rack up the rack points (pun intended). It's definitely possible, but I wouldn't advise it.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Yes, but how did 1114 play the end of the elimination matches? Oh yeah, they used the ramp. GLR was won with ramps, and almost every great alliance we've seen has at least one robot that can lift at least one partner. Ramps are the key, especially in the eliminations.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Extremely strong offense and very little offensive opposition. As long as the opposing alliance gets 2 on with the other getting 6 (assuming scoring on just one spider for simplicity's sake), ramps still makes it anyone's game. Once 7 and 8 starts getting in the mix, spoilers and ramps are still a potent combination to win, if applicable.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Sometimes but 1114 many scores they only use their ramp if they know they will need the points which is rare because the teams playing defence on them couldn't catch up to them!!!!!! :yikes:

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Yes. Ramps played a large part in our success at SD. We were able to lift 18 robots in 10 qualifying matches and the times we didnt resulted (because FIRST disabled our alliance partners mid-game) in a loss...

However, with strategic and effective scoring in tandem with tenacious defense a solid 60-point lift can be rendered insignificant.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

The key is finding a ramp bot that isnt usless for the rest of the match. 548 lifted alot of bots and they still had a very effictive arm.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Ramps work very effectively in low-scoring affairs. 537 won Wisconsin with a ramp bot (A very good one at that (King Tec)) but we attempted all out offense at Buckeye. It paid off in the first two matches (we won by 100 pts both times) but we ended up being defeated by a ramping alliance in semi's. It all depends how fast you can score on the rack.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Ya, we were able to place 2-3 ringers consistently over the course of the qualifying rounds and elimination matches, we would participate out in the field fo the first minute then return to the home zone to deploy our panels then activate the gas spings to lift the panels with about 5 seconds left.

In the elimination rounds, we realized that our aforementioned strategy was way too conservative and decided to return to the home zone with only about 30 seconds left; doing so we could place 3-4 ringers every time.

Still, as i said before, that startegy was still defeated by a very solid alliance of 330 696 and 835 (1216 too) - great job guys.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

In qualifying at UTC about 8/10 matches in qualifying were won on the ramps.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I agree. I keep thinking that eventually this game will be like 2005 in Atlanta when nobody touched eachother in the finals. The game came down to who could score the fastest. If this happens this year, it'll come down to who can put up the most ringers first, and then it'll come down to spoiler control. The spoilers will turn into the black balls from 2000, extremely coveted and often held onto until the very last second (watch what we (126) did in fm3 at Nats, ugh). If this is the case, ramp climbing may be unimportant as last minute spoiler manipulation might prove to be key to success.

However, the opposite form of game play may come down to battling it out for 1:40 or so with all three robots trying to score and block eachother simultaneously, resulting in extremely low scores (rows of 2-3, for example). Send your rampbot back at 30 seconds, deploy, and park very quickly in the last few seconds. In this case, an alliance might win strictly on the basis of ramp-climbing.

I'm very anxious to get to Atlanta right now...

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Too bad San Diego wasn't webcast. Finals matches 2 and 3 revealed one way. Ramps don't work too well if nobody is able to climb them...

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

In San Diego, both 330 and 696 had ramps/platforms but didn't need them, because the alliance was a scoring and defense powerhouse. Ramps/platforms can win it every time against an opposing alliance of do-nothing bots, but if the opposing alliance has a decent scorer with free reign over the rack, ramps only just aren't gonna have. They are good to have, they can win a lot of matches. They are great if the rack is scattered or if the opponents are going really hard on defense. But, you really need a good scorer or two, and a good defender to win. And from what I've seen, a lot of teams have trouble getting up ramps. Also, in the last 20 seconds that an alliance spends getting 12" high, the opposing alliance can be making huge points on the rack. If you have a row of 6, and can make it a row of 7, that is more points added than two robots at 12".

So, I guess the bottom line is there is a lot of ways this game can go. There is no clear-cut "this is what wins it every time." You just need an alliance with great robots, great teams, and great people, who like to play hard, in whatever way they can.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I suspect that as the parity between tube scoring on each team increases, and the quality of the bots increase, defense will also increase. I think the nationals will be a game of you MUST have a ramp to compete - good ramps will become commonplace. Because of that, I suspect that tube scoring may be what gives you the couple extra points to win.

So while ramps will be absolutely necessary, the winners will be the one who score the most tubes.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I know at both GSR and BMR the winning alliances had ramps.

The last match at the BMR had no tubes scored at all and the win was decided by the ramp.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

It depends on how teams want to play the game.

If alliances want to outscore eachother with tubes, ramps can grab that win, but all it takes is a row of 7 to beat a row of 6 and two robots lifted 12". It would take a column of 2 to tie the match, and it would take another tube in that row of 6 to win it. If you're focused on getting your robots up, there's no guarantee that you'll have that row of 7.

If teams are playing effective defense, there's no guarantee that the opposing alliance will have a row of 7.

You don't have to have ramps to win. You need a good set of scorers, maybe a defensive robot to either keep opposing teams from getting in the way of your scorers or from scoring them selves (either with tubes or getting lifted by their alliance partner), and a good strategy.

Our alliance took a risk in Indiana and went without a lifter. We were picked because the alliance captain believed that us and 931 could score enough to keep ramps from beating us. We could have gone onto the finals and maybe won the regional with a good enough strategy.

Unfortunately, luck ran against us and we lost in the semis.

Moral of this story is that you don't absolutely NEED ramps to win, they are just a good idea. We lost because of other circumstances out of our control, but that's not important right now. The fact is that we didn't lose because we didn't have a ramp. It wouldn't even have made a difference even if we did have a ramp.

I see ramps as a safety. If it's looking bad, then get those robots up.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Ramps have been very key in this year’s game. No matter how good the tube scoring robot may be their will always be a robot out there playing defense. This changes the accuracy of that robot which is why every alliance needs a ramp robot no matter how good the tube scoring robot may be. Just getting one robot above 4in. can have a dramatic change in the score. Therefore, in my opinion ramps are very key to the success of the game no matter what the odds are.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

It depends on the alliances playing. If they're unmatched to the point where one alliance can get that many more tubes up, ramps mean nothing.

If the alliances are balanced, then it will come down to ramps or a spoiler.

The spoilers are extremely powerful if placed right. I expect to see some alliances in Atlanta choosing to use their last seconds to place a spoiler, rather than get up the ramps.

That said, I think that on Einstein it will come down to ramps, because teams that make it that far will generally have either extremely good scoring ability, or amazing defensive capabilities.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

This years game is a game played mainly in two different ways. 537 has been to a regional that played both styles of gameplay. At wisconsin there were a ton of good rampbots, and very few bots that could score fast, so if you couldnt ramp you were screwed, tubes were basically a tiebreaker. At buckeye there was tons of tube scoring, but ramps were still important. 537, 494, and 70 ran out of tubes in the back putting up 78 points and a sea of red on the rack, however the blue alliance with their 20 points on the rack and ramps were able to beat us by 2 points in semis. Either way ramps are an important aspect to any winning alliance, as just a few strategically placed tubes can eliminate the option for a high scoring alliance to get a row of 7 or 8.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Bingo!

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Ed,

Team #39 won the Arizona Regional losing only one qualifying match and one tournament match without a ramp. The qualifying match we lost, we drove up a ramp but our alliance partner pushed a ringer under the ramp and we did not get the bonus points. You can win without a ramp!

Ken

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I disagree with the earlier statement that says that ramps are the key. I believe, as with most sports, it is not how you score that matters. Defense is what really matters.(We were ranked fourth at the end of the elimination rounds without scoring any points on the rack. Also, up until that point, we only got on a ramp once.)

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I think that Ramps are a key to when you are down points but I saw one team only plays to drop down ramps at waterloo which is really sort opf useless 3vs 3 iin a match and only 2 players play!

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

In Brazil, the team #1382, was a very good ramp bot, which almost teams could go up... and scored once in all the regional... and were the Second seed and the event winners playing with two scorer bots... i believe that a reliable ramp allied with a strong deffense (by the same bot) and maybe 3 or 4 strategically tube scoring, is hard to be beaten...

this year game is all about strategy!! is possible to win with or without ramps...

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

I agree with the aforementioned strategy of using clever and precise ringer placement in a form of "offensive defense" to impede the opposing alliance from creating large lift-killing rows. However, if your alliance teammates are defended well and are prevented from getting on your panels/ramps as ours were (granted we lift 15" in 1.5 seconds; the opponents played spectacular defense) then that strategy can be defeated as ours was.

And there are robots out there, that if you leave them for 15 to get on panels/ramps can score enough to do serious damage. I witnessed Beach 'Bot (team 330) place 3 rings in the final 15 seconds to extend a row point total by a factor of 8. That being said even leaving such a robot alone with three ringers aready on the rack can mean 64 points or more aka death to ramps.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Yeah, I really think that if a team gets at least 64 points on the rack the other team can't win with ramps. Also when the teams go back to get points on the ramps. The other alliance can keep on scoring making their score even higher.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Try ramps alone. 2 tubes forces a tie (with ramps vs. 6 tubes), 3 a win for the ramps. 7 tubes ends the match for the other alliance.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Yes true but the other alliance at the end could probilly score at least 3-5 more ringers if their arm is good on the rack making the score even more for that alliance!!!!!

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

It really does depend on the alliance, but in the championship match in 2007, we won by one point becuase in the last ten seconds we deployed our ramps and got both other teams' robots above that foot off the ground. Ramps do really help.

Re: Has ramps been a key thing for sucess?
 

Argh! Attack of the thread!