2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Is this, Pound Per Pound the Toughest Regional Out There? (Thank you Dave Verbrugge). It's only a couple days aways. Who is excited? Any predictions? Will this be a preview of the Championship Event?

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Does anyone know the status of the webcast for this event?? It was on the NASA list of webcasts and then it suddenly wasn't. It would be great to check out this regional. So anyone know what the word on a webcast for West Michigan is??

Thanks,

Justin

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Yes, we are planning on providing a webcast. The regional web site (http://www.westmichiganregional.com) already has the information and a link, but if you can't get to that for some reason the URL is:
http://live.wildstang.org/wmr.php
Barring any problems we should have it up and running Thursday morning.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Is that this week? I thought it was next week. Well either way... good luck to our buddies on 107 and the rest of the Holland, MI teams. Enjoy this competition, I know I did last year.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

WAHHHHH!!!! Team 66 isn't going this year... its sort of a bummer... :( Oh well, good luck to everyone up there, hope it turns out great.

;)

-Joe

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Yep, it's that week, it's amazing how fast this year is going.... I can't wait to watch this regional courtside.:D

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

226 can't wait! It's going to be a great comp... looks pretty tough. But we think we have our robot fixed after GLR... I guess we'll see this weekend!

Our FLL teams and others that can't come are really excited to see there's a webcast, thanks Wildstang!

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

hey where can i get a list of all the teams playing? in west michigan.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

You'll be missed. Always great to see you guys here.

I'm going nuts getting ready, but am really looking forward to WMR. Like always, any one needing help or advice look up team 85 or one of the other (14 ?) West Michigan teams.

It will be great to see some new teams such as Hopkins and West Catholic, awesome veterans, and lots of friends.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Although living on the East side of the state now, Hopkins is where I went to high school way back in the 80's - looking forward to seeing them there.

I'm definitely excited to be coming back to what I believe has become the toughest regional of all. "pound for pound...etc."

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Any chance of getting this webcast up on something other than Real Player?

I am stuck at home (waiting for wife to delivery first born son), dieing to watch this regional in the meantime.

Us GM people get our hands slapped everytime we try to download and use Real Player.

thanks.

Good Luck HOT Team.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

I'm in the same boat (computer wise not baby wise.) No real player allowed here at work.

PS Good luck on the baby, mine are 20 and 16!

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

No, sorry. The broadcast software we have available is Real. You might be able to view it with VLC if you can download that.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

I am also in the same boat.. darn GM computer policy

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Do we have to refresh our feed (or do something else) for the "post lunch" games?

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

I think they're back to using the wide shot again during the matches, if that's what you're talking about. They had it on the sponsor slideshow for a while. Originally they had planned on showing that all day but we asked the AV guys to give us a fixed camera shot instead and they were nice enough to oblige us.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Does anybody how to get a schedule, I'm curious on when 71 will be up.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Thanks Dave, it's all fixed again!

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Adam and others who don't like/can't use Real, I second getting VLC player.
www.videolan.org

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

alright the player is downloaded and instaled but... i still can't see the webcast...what may i have to do??

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

About 12 hours away from the first matches tomorrow morning. It's going too be so much fun. I really can't wait for tomorrow. I hope I'm not as tired tomorrow as I am right now, but thats what mountain dew is for.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

the 3 days of school that I did have this week went by insanely slow while waiting for this regional.

I love the energy and what goes on at these competitions. They're great fun ^_^

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

The West Michigan Regional is up and running again today! Webcast URL is: http://live.wildstang.org/wmr.php

To anyone who's watching, does it look OK?

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Yes, looks great!

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

VLC doesn't support Real: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html
Is there a way to get a codec for it?

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

This will do it. http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...ckage_id=84358

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Dave the webcast was good until like a few mins back. Both audio and video have become choppy now.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

You sure it's not on your end?

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

I checked it is not on my end here. It goes to good then goes to bad and then stays ok for a while. Anyways I think I can live with it.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Alright, so this doesn't have to do with the webcast or anything, and I suppose my opinion may be slightly biased, but does anyone else find it kind of unfair that after 1327 rammed us(67) (full speed) bending our end-effector, that they didn't receive a yellow card? I just want to see what other people's opinions are on the subject.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Anyone on here should stop by 904's pit and say hi. I've met so few of you. (What? Andy Baker's there? And (insert big-name person here?) I'll probably be there with little to do. Look for the blue lab coats.

Anyway, it's been looking good so far. We've unfortunately had a bug dealing with autonomous and driving that we think is fixed. (Ask me about it in person.) We managed to beat our previous alliance captain, WildStang, in one match. (good round!) We probably would have won with ChiefDelphi if it wasn't for that driving/autonomous bug.

Good luck to all of you tomorrow! Even if you're not selected for the elimination matches, keep your batteries out -- another team may need them.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

This competition has been amazingly shocking. Many teams who did well previously are seeded low, and some teams have really bounced back.

Some that stick out to me:
111 has a losing record, and isnt ranked very high
71 has a losing record and isn't ranked very high
67 is ranked checkingly low (partly due to their claw getting bent in one match.

68, after a somewhat disappointing GLR performance, has bounced back into 4th place.
33 has played really well and has only one loss, putting them up in 2nd place.

Other notes:
85 has had the most success with their ramps. Other teams are doing ok, but they are doing the best.
27 is improving, doing well with their shallow ramp and lift.

Many teams who are classified as "elite" or "legendary" have been playing well, but one robot isnt enough to win matches in WMR.

Spoilers are being used a lot more now.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Does someone have the match List for tomorrow i would really like to know at least what team 107s matches are, any more of the list would be great as well.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

I want to thank all involved in providing the webcast at the Midwest and West Michigan regionals. I was not able to be in Chicago and watched the entire webcast. It was awesome! Now, I am able to be at the West Michigan regional and all my friends and family can see why I've been so geeked for the last 3 months. Thanks again!!!

Go team 904!!!!

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Wow, I was so exhausted from todays events that I came home, crashed, and just woke up. How awesome was it to watch! Congradulations to all the teams that competed. I wasn't able to even form a guess as to who would walk away winners after the qualification rounds ended. It was pound for pound the best over all regional, I can't wait to see how these teams show up at the Championships. I want to send a big congradulations out to 703, 469, and 494.

So I guess that's all I wanted to say was big congradulations to everyone that competed today and thanks for the memories, I just worked my first regional and it was awesome! :)

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

If it was amazing on the field, it was doubly so elsewhere. I saw very few matches, but met many new people and talked with many I've known for years.

Here's a couple of observations:

• Our team hoped to give out a "Dirty Hands" award for the most involved students in the pits. It was very hard to pick one. Once we made a pick, printer and other issues prevented us from presenting it. Team 2197, we were impressed with how your team worked on the robot and supported each other during repairs and maintainence.
• The only way to tell rookies was by their team number. There was very little rookie panic or rookie shyness.
• I was extremely impressed again at the Judges that Terry Stevens recruited. Their titles are impressive but observing them interact with the teams was amazing.
• It was awesome to see four National Woodie Flowers Award winners presenting the WFA.
• I'm still trying to figure out how a 54 team regional felt so comfortable.

I'll probably write a congrats and thank you in that section of the forum so I'll just finish by saying I had a blast.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

I just want to give a congrats out to 703, 469, and 494 it was tough and you guys pulled through the victory AMAZING JOB GUYS. Also want to throw out a thanks to 1504, and 111 we tried out best and gave it everything we had, we were so close......see you all in ATLANTA!!!!!

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Congrats to the winners. I'd also like to congratulate Wild Stang for getting an autonomous working between competitions, I know how hard it is to test and finish an autonomous mode with limited time. I was just wondering why you did not attempt to score in autonomous in your first final match. We're glad to have your competition in autonomous mode, also nice job getting to the finals, it looked like those could have easily gone either way.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

The reason they didnt on the first match was because they knew that 703 was targeting them and they did not want to have and broken parts at the begining of the match

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

this was an amazing regional. there were tons of unexpected outcomes that kept everyone excited and on edge. i want to give a shout out to more martians and foley freeze. we gave it one heck of a run. congrats to 469, 494, and 703. there was never a dull moment. see you guys at NATIONALS! WOO-WOO!:cool:

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Thanks for the kind words. To answer your questions, when we began this season, we made a conscious decision that we weren't going to dedicate as much time to autonomous (the last 4 years have been grueling). With the new clarified software rules, and the minimal impact on the game, we focused on making a machine that was easily controlled that could play the game well. We did play with some sensors to see what could be done, but we didn't have too much success. We knew up front that this decision would turn a lot of heads, but it just wasn't worth it.

There were two things that changed our minds
1. We overestimated the way that the refs were going to move the rack. When we saw how this was being done in reality, the wheels started spinning a little bit.

2. At Midwest, we saw 71 perform a maneuver that hadn't crossed our minds. They faced the rack and drove in an arc around the rack while facing the center of the rack. This got the wheels spinning faster.

After Midwest we began to see some of the benefits of scoring the keepers and put a little effort into autonomous (less than a fix-it window). We combined a single sonar sensor with the newly found arc maneuver and nailed it.

At West Michgan, we tuned some parameters for the real robot. It worked perfectly on the practice field, but would not work on the real field. The sonar didn't pick up the real spiders on Friday. At the end of the day, we made a realization that we weren't taking into account the difference between the wood spider feet and the diamond plate ones. FIRST graciously allowed us to use one of the feet for about 10 minutes at the practice field. With a few tweaks, we got it locked in.

The reason that we didn't run it the first match of finals was because we knew that 703 was going to come after us. We knew that they had the capability, but we didn't know the route(s) that they were capable of running. Once we saw what they did, Raul made the decision to try to run it.

You not only gained our competition in autonomous this weekend,. There were many teams that were impressive on the field. 33, 67, 397, 469, 1718 come to mind.

That said, thanks to 1504 for picking us, and to 302 for helping round out a great alliance. To all the teams that we faced during elims...thanks for the awesome competition. It was by far the most exciting tournament that I have experienced. Any of those alliance could have won at any time.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Actually, while the diamond plate/wood issue was one of the potential problems we looked into, it ended up being a red herring. We never made any changes for that. The actual root cause ended up being the way the rack was assembled on the real field: the center piece of the bottom spider was hanging lower than the ends of the feet by a significant amount. This made the spider feet point upwards a little bit. We had to point our sensor down somewhat to account for this discrepancy.

Anyway, I too would like to thank 1504 and 302 for letting us take part in that great alliance. Looking at the amazing list of teams that we were able to get past in the quarter's and semi's and knowing that we had actually won the last match if it hadn't been for a penalty tells me that it was really an awesome partnership! Hope to see you all again in Atlanta.

Additionally, I would like to really thank all the staff and volunteers at West Michigan as well. Our whole team really noticed how nice everyone was at the regional and what a positive impact that had on our experience. This regional along with Boilermaker in 2005 are by far my top two favorite regional events that I have attended. I hope we get the chance to return next year!

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Hey Dave how did you manage to clock your post at 1:11? I have to agree, the folks in Western Michigan made this one of the nicest regionals I have ever attended. Thanks to all the great teams who attended, it turned out to be as hard as everyone expected. Thanks for exhibiting all the spectacular talent and helping everyone get ready for Atlanta. As Dave V said, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see a Championship winner among the WMR attendees.
Good luck to the Chairman's Team, Rush (27) who have had a spectacular team for many years.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

I second that! A job well done!

Thanks 27 for picking us to join your alliance. We had a blast. Your team shows great organizational skills and sportsmanship.

Our apologies for an unexpected arm failure on our robot. Who knows how things may of turned out.

Congratulations to the Winning Alliance of 703, 469, and 494. A most awesome fight to the finish.

Hats off to the finalist 1504, 111, and 302. Some amazing plays.

See everyone in Atlanta.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

the other dave posted at 1:41 :)

congrats to all the teams for another tough regional, and I wouldn't be surprised if many teams from WMR are in the finals at the championships

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

You had problems with the camera? I think we all did, at least at first.
do you mind explaining to me how this manuever works, or is that too top secret until post-Atlanta?

Also, I would agree that last year when we went to West Michigan is was a great experience. At some point I could see our team going back there for the high quality of competition and fun.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

We had problems with autonomous the whole weekend, then after the finals were over, we had the bright idea to change out the camera with a new one, and voila, it worked almost flawlessly

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Regarding Vogel648 and:
We call it "circlestrafe", and as far as I know, it is only possible with Swerve/Crab drive. It is basically like driving a car in a circle (with the side always facing the center of the arc), except that the front or back of the robot faces the center of the arc. It is quite useful for scoring on the rack, as it is one continuous movement and not a series of driving and turning maneuvers

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Thanks to everyone for a great regional. It was the most amazing regional I've ever been at.

Is anybody going to host an archive of some of the videos?

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

We actually never planned on using the lights. We thought that it wasn't really worth the effort to figure out how to track two lights with the CMU cam (I don't even think we unpacked the camera). We had camera experience in 2005 and 2006, so had it been a single light case, we may have tried it.

tdlrali's post describes the maneuver well, however, 469 has the advantage of having independent steering on their wheels. We have front/back crab, so we turn the wheels 90 degrees and only drive the back wheels. By varying the speed that we drive, the radius of the arc changes.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

As I've said in other threads, we would have had an autonomous of some kind if not for a bug dealing with multiple bindings on a button. :(

All around, though, a very good regional. (And I have a new appreciation for the field designers!)

We try.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

It's quite possible with a mecanum/omni drive, just more difficult.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

One could possibly emulate it with a tank style drive if you had a turret. Just do the same trick wildstang does, drive one set of wheels faster than the other and you will go in an arc. The trick to using it with tank drives is that you have to turn your robot sideways and swing the turret perpindicular to the original front. Then you drive sideways keeping the turret pointed to the rack. Essentially you are treating the turret as the front of your robot and your chassis is doing the "crabbing". This requires the turret to have enough rotation to keep it facing the rack but if you only want to translate across 3 legs that means 105 degress of rotation either way. (90 to turn it at a right angle to your robot's "front" plus the 15 degrees apart for the legs) Mind you my math may be off but the point is, this circle strafe is NOT owned soley by crab drives. Anyone with tank drive and a turret can do it. I apologize if that is unclear. Short version, just drive in a huge arc around the rack and keep your turret pointed towards the center.

Oh and West Michigan was amazing, Ive never seen so many great teams at one regional. Congrats to 469 494 and 703. You guys were amazing.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

Ah yes, you are completely right, that would have the exact same effect

I have no idea, but I'll trust you on this one :P

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

IM thinking with a mecanum drive you would have loads more of complex manuevers with the joysticks or controls

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

The chances of tracking two lights if you do it right was minimal, both from experience and from taking a close look at things. Our robot does not even handle the case in which it finds two lights, it's completely improbable really. To get two lights within the 25 degree range of the light you would have to be fairly far away and for some reason have you camera tracking in the middle of the two green lights. With a search function that starts at one end of the area the rack will be in this will rarely if ever be a problem.
Edit: yeah after thinking about it the circle thing makes sense, but isn't possible with our form of crabsteer, I guess it wouldn't be very efficient energy wise because the wheels aren't at the right angle. Of course feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

The issue for us was not whether or not we could make use of the camera - we're one of a very few number of teams who used it with lots of success in both 2005 and 2006 (we had issues scoring the tetra in 2005 but it had nothing to do with the camera which worked perfectly nearly every time). The issue was simply whether or not it was worth the time to do it again this year, and I stand by our decision. Scoring a keeper in auto is nice but not worth the effort we've put into our autonomous software in prior years. We had developed our own custom camera software which worked extremely well, but the software rules now prohibit us from reusing that and we didn't feel like redeveloping it.

Hopefully FIRST decides after this year that the game is more fun when a lot of teams are doing autonomous. Even at MWR there still weren't many teams doing a lot and often it was pretty boring. Not allowing teams to build on software from prior seasons will continue to limit teams to primitive auto modes (in my opinion). We got lucky that we were able to put something really simple together with our robot this year but I don't think it's anywhere near as cool (or inspirational) as some of the things we've done in the past.

Re: 2007 West Michigan Regional
 

if anybody is going to complain about getting a yellow card, its us - team 2197

P.S. I dont think that ram was full speed