Picking alliances
 

Ok, so team 1552 did not get selected into eliminations, either
a) they were not a good robot
b) they are ranked 40 out of 45
c) they are a good robot, but failed to exemplify their abilities in the round robin rounds, for whatever reason (new non-random alliance partner selections, etc. )

should they have attempted to "sell" themselves to the higher seeds, if they think the rankings do not reflect their actual ability, or should they simply wait and see, hoping that scouting by other teams would've noticed them? Does it seem desperate if a lowly ranked team attempts to make a final effort to convince potential alliance captains to pick them? In ideal conditions, rankings should reflect a team's ability, but we all know in around 10 matches, some unexpected teams can happen, and a good robot worthy of going into eliminations can easily end up with a losing record, and in the bottom of the rankings. So, my question to the FIRST community out there is: what would you do to get your team into eliminations if you know your team has a great robot, but your rankings are absolutely abyssmal come alliance selections?

Re: Picking alliances
 

If other teams have good scouts, qualifying rank means nothing. Good scouts will find good teams, regardless of rank. There are plenty of stories around here of teams who finished dead last and still got picked for elims (most recently, team 4 won LA after seeding last). On the other hand, my team finished in the top 20 at both events we entered this year, and still didn't get picked. There's nothing wrong with selling yourself to other teams, particularly teams that you played well with during qualifying. Scouts do sometimes miss good teams, and it never hurts to give them a little reminder. In any case, don't beat yourself up over it. Only 24 teams get to play in elims. Sometimes you're in the 24, and sometimes you aren't.

Re: Picking alliances
 

1015 was in a simular situation at GLR:

We were seeded 45th out of 59. We did try to "sell" our selfs to the top teams. We felt that we were a lot better then our seeding rank. Based on 1504's scouting data we were the 8th best tube scorer (total of 18 in 8 matchs). We had some bad luck with partners and so on. It seemed like nobody really noticed us though, and we got picked 15th (by the 2nd alliance on the 2nd time arround!). Our scouters had talked with the 2nd alliance before, which may or may not have helped them pick us. Our alliance managed to win the competition! I think this was partialy because nobody noticed we were such a good tube scorer, and the 2nd alliance got to pick a reliable bot for a 3rd partner to make a good alliance.

Anyways, I think that you should sell yourself if you have a great robot. Not all teams have great scouting data like 1504. I know last year we made it to the eliminations for the first time ever after 4 years. We were not prepared to pick partners and ended up not knowing who to pick really. So yes, teams dont know who to pick, and just letting them know who you are doesnt hurt anything. Just as long as you dont do it in the wrong way I dont think it is "desperate".

Re: Picking alliances
 

From being seeded 2nd at two regionals this year I got to experience what it was like when a lower team tried to sell themselves to us. We have a very strong group of scouts so we have are own rankings which we use. Whenever a team tried to sell themselves to us it really did not impact what we were doing at all. But our rookie year we were ranked 10th or so and got to captain the 7th or 8th alliance and since we were not expecting it we had no scouting data. In that case teams lobbying us made a huge impact.

In essence if the team has a good scouting team you are already being considered so there is not much you can do. If the team is not scouting a lot then making a pitch to them can help you a ton. At the very least pitching to a higher team with scouts will not make them rank you lower.

If you are going to make the pitch there are a few things you should make sure to do.
1) Sometimes their are reasons why robots are ranked low, explain them. For example if you had to play a good team every match (1st week regionals) or if your robot broke for two matches. If your ranked 40th because something broken on Thursday morning and you did well in your last 5 matches then teams will be more likely to pick you.
2) Wait until the qualification matches are done or at least the team you are pitching to is done with their matches. If you talk to them before they finish they will be focusing on their matches.
3) Focus on your strengths. Simple things such as showing up to every qualification match with a working robot can help you a lot.
4) Keep it short and to the point.


One thing to note. This is just my view of what would convince my team to pick you, and other teams might be very different.

Re: Picking alliances
 

Yes, we got picked by the first seeded aliance first in the Midwest Regional, dispite being fairly mid to low in qualifying.

Re: Picking alliances
 

I would recommend it, especially if you think the efforts will pay off.

At BMR, we were one of the better robots. Many different teams came up to us, it really did make us reconsider our alliance.

At St. Louis, however, we didn't do so well, even though near the end, our robot was well tuned, and running as good as ever. We didn't sell ourselves to teams, even though we thought we'd be better than some of their picks.

Besides, whats the worst that could happen?

Re: Picking alliances
 

Chances are, if you are deserving of being selected for eliminations, one of the eight alliances will pick you. For example, last year 648 was almost last at West Michigan but we ended up being the final pick of the 1st seeded alliance and last overall. It's not really about selling yourself, but making impressions.

Re: Picking alliances
 

I wholeheartedly agree--a little bit of salesmanship never hurt at all. None of my teams, past or present, had ever made it to eliminations before today at Palmetto, let alone been the alliance captain. If nearly any team had found me and spoke about their robot in a convincing manner, there's a reasonable chance they'd have swayed my attitude towards them, making their way into the consideration set.

(A particularly skilled marketer who figured me out might try partial cue listing, where they'd list only a few parts of a whole list, which then inhibits my memory of the other members of the list. Go ahead, name toothpastes in your head past Crest, Colgate, and Aim without Googling--a group of five college students I was with couldn't get past three more. Consumer Behavior finally pays off!)

Of course, our scouting system was only my gut instinct--next year, we're coming prepared.

Re: Picking alliances
 

I thought you guys had a nice looking bot but 40? eesh, but I wasn't able to watch any matches because I stayed in the pit keeping it tidy and doing repeat ability tests on our robot. AND NO, it does not seem desperate when a low ranked team makes attempts in smooching up to other teams as a final attempt. As long as the teams got good scouts, than they'll know exactly which teams to pick for alliance and not just base it off of rank or else team 1 would pick team 2, team 3 picks team 4 and so on and so forth and teams like us wold have never gotten chosen. But then again if a team didn't show a good performance in the prelims, it's very hard to say "we want them". We dropped from 1st to 18th in three matches, we were dominating the entire morning up until everyone started pinning us and our alliances wouldn't help us and try to score it themselves but everyone knew we had a mean bot because of how well we performed in the majority of our matches. Plus 1583 was able to get 555 to chose us because we were one of the very few bots who had the clearance to get up. But for the question, I would most defiantly have the entire team be talking to the top 8 teams constantly. didn't work for us at 18th though for most of the other teams but as long as someone wanted 1583 we were good.

Re: Picking alliances
 

In the Florida Regional, SPAM Team 180 (us) picked Team 233 Pink and they were last seed. They were just unlucky and were paired with the wrong teams. We were 6th seed, and ended up losing in the Semi-finals...all 3 games. Pink exemiplified their great arm potential, and it showed in their scoring, not in their ranking. We wouldn't have been able to scout so well if it hadn't had been for our 30+ kids in the stands =).

Re: Picking alliances
 

From personal experience, I can see it working either way:

Last year at the UTC New England Regional, our robot was ranked 40 out of 40 in the second to last qualifying match, (though our win in the our last qualifying match brought us up to 34/40). Our ranking didn't really justify the capabilities of our robot though; we lost a lot of matches due to alliance partners not showing up (this led to a 1 on 3 situation because of backbots) or because of alliance partners who didn't function properly. We made sure to let other teams know this... if we hadn't, we probably wouldn't have been picked by 177 and 176... and we wouldn't have won the Regional. So selling yourself to other teams could work out for the better.

This year at the UTC Connecticut Regional, we ranked 8 of 49, so we were alliance captains (for the first time ever!). We had already established a positive relationship with team 195 (from working with and against them inprevious matches), which, combined with our robot's good performance is probably why they (the 6th ranked team) chose us. Together we decided on 558 as our third alliance partner, not because 558 had come up to us and told us how great they were, but because we (and our team's scouters) had noted that they were a great robot with amazing defense and a good ramp. So sometimes you don't need to sell yourself to get noticed.

At least, that's the way I see it.

Re: Picking alliances
 

Over the years, I've gotten tired of teams selling themselves to me. It is all exagerated and glorified, every time. But I do think a bit of honest salesmanship is a good thing. A lot of teams really haven't a clue when it comes time to pick.

Re: Picking alliances
 

"Schmoozing" (selling yourself to anybody in the top 8) can pay off. However, bad times to do this are: a) they are swarming their robot like crazy, b) they are about to play a match, or c) when the judges or a bunch of other teams are there. Start on Friday and step it up as you get closer. Don't be too agressive about it though; that gets the "pushy salesman" reaction. (On the other hand, don't ignore the top 8. That could be suicide.)

By the way, reason d) that this team didn't get picked is: they didn't draw the attention of enough scouts. Reason e) is: alliance strategy may not have had a place for the robot type. (eg. a ringer robot when the next few picks want a ramp bot) I say, let it fly, sell yourself next time around, and hope it works. (Giveaways help too.:D)

Re: Picking alliances
 

I don't think informing the top teams of your robot's ability is a bad thing. It might sound "desperate", but if you do it right it might actually be really helpful.
At the Colorado regional there was some team (sorry, forgot the number) that made a really helpful scouting booklet of all the teams at the regional.
During the alliance selections, alliances 1-8 picked pretty quickly, they knew who they wanted to choose. But alliance 8 took a really long time to make their second choice, and I saw almost every single other alliance on the field flipping through that scouting manual like crazy while teams 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, made their decision.
I think some of the selection decisions were rushed simply because the alliances weren't aware of which teams were both A) not already picked, and B) preformed well but were ranked low enough that no one really noticed them (from what I've heard, this seems to be fairly common).
Talking to the high ranked teams could, if nothing else, give them a team to pick if their first few choices are taken by other the alliances.

Re: Picking alliances
 

Advertising your team not only helps you when the alliance selection occurs, it also helps to boost your image and make you more recognizable to other people, judges, etc. There's something magical about the conciseness of flyers and buttons that can sell your team name.

While you probably should mention yourselves to the top seeded teams, I strongly recommend that you focus on seeking a complementary robot to play with (for example, being a double ramp marketing to a strong arm robot). Marketing yourself to those teams will not only make a compelling case to get picked, it also creates one of those "hidden gem" situations that ultimately benefits you in the eliminations.

Getting picked is not the key to elimination matches. Working with and advertising to robots that will build a strong alliance with you is.

Also, keep in mind that rankings are not the only representation of status or skill. You should go out to every match you play in seeking to become better, to try something new, to compete fiercely and fairly. Performing well despite any unfortunate situations generates attention and causes teams to notice you.

However, do take all this advice with a grain of salt: the spirit of the competition is not to get picked just for the prestige of it nor to do everything possible to sell yourselves - what you gain from the competition is more than just a medal. You gain experience and the will to go out into the world and constantly make improvements.

_Alex

Re: Picking alliances
 

I believe it was 1861, The S.H.A.R.C. team. that was so cool they did that for us, it really helped out in strategy. But yeah, it seemed at Colorado the alliance pickings were really rushed, me and the rest of Team 1636 were just sitting there waiting for someone to pick us or 1583. Luckily 555 did and we're grateful for it, very grateful(Love you guys-thanks for the buttons and the shirt). A lot of the alliances I thought could have been more thought out but the top 8 weren't given anytime to figure out what they really wanted like they did with us last year. Of course I don't know why I didn't mention this, but buddy yourselves up with a good bot that will most likely be picked up is another good plan, risky, but it may work.(1636 and 1583)

Re: Picking alliances
 

Schmoozing isn't only done by teams out of the top eight seeds, there is a lot of "testing the waters" within that group as well. Teams discussing possible matchups with each other and striking deals for end game strategies.

For teams that have significant scouting, you cannot wait until the competition is over to begin talking with them. They have collected all the data, and have taken notes about the decisions made by your competition team. You need to catch them early on Saturday morning, and give them some time to focus on your robot during its matches. Many robots improve from Friday to Saturday, and some begin having more difficulties. Scouts are familiar with these trends, so give them time to re-evaluate your robot during the Saturday morning matches.

Re: Picking alliances
 

At Lone Star a couple teams came by our pit and talked to me, asking me to keep them in mind. I had no problem with this, but they were talking to the wrong person! As the driver and part of the pit crew, I had very little time to look at other robots, especially if they weren't allied with us, or they didn't really stand out. When our team met to make a list of potential alliance partners I was primarily there to keep things moving.
So, I don't know about other teams, but talking to our pit crew is a lost cause since we are the people on the team contributing the least to the alliance selection decisions.
However, the information flyers did come in handy on multiple occasions, especially the ones with detailed pictures, since our scouting pictures only got robots from one angle.

Re: Picking alliances
 

We create a ranking list on Friday night and come prepared to tweak it on Saturday morning. We use the last matches on Saturday to see if our ranking may need adjusting.

The issue with schmoozing is that all the talk in the world does not help if you cannot prove it on the field. My advice to teams is to:
1) Approach teams that you wish would consider you as a partner either after all matches are done on Friday or early on Saturday morning before your first match that day. Explain to them your strengths and ask them to watch you perform in your next match and give them your match number. This makes #2 below important:
2) Do not try to show off your abilities at the cost of causing your alliance to lose. Some rookie teams (and some veterans) do not follow or agree to do the best strategy because they want to do their own thing to show off. You must get agreement from your alliance that the role you will play (ramp, score, defense) is what is going to contribute the most to the alliance.

Raul

Re: Picking alliances
 

Rankings are a very poor repensentation. 342 was in the mid 20's of the Palmetto Regional, but we ended up beating the #1 ranked team in the finals. We did try to sell ourselfs. We went to 1319 (Golden Flash) and showed them our relieable ablity to climb ramps on the practice field and diminstrated our arm. With Flash's ramp, and both 832 and us scoring, we had a great team that went past ranking

Re: Picking alliances
 

Just so everybody knows! Your ranking means NOTHING. we (Chuck 84) just won the Philly Regional after choosing the 35th seeded team and the 19th seeded team and we came out on top. so don't let yourself think that if a team is seeded low they suck. :yikes:

Re: Picking alliances
 

If I were you, I'd pay close attention to Raul's post. Selling your team is a good idea if you do it the right way. And if you try to sell your team by claiming things your robot/team cannot do, most powerhouse teams will find out through their scouting data and it will only lower your teams worth in their opinion. It is important to sell what you have done right in the past rounds so you have a prove record. Honesty is highly valued among teams who are usually in the top 8.

Re: Picking alliances
 

I agree. When I was scouting captain for team 175, we did a lot of quantitative analysis. However, quantitative analysis is never enough to judge the quality of a team. A lot of the time, it came down to my (and the other scouts) impressions of a team.

It is certainly very important to be honest about what you can do. If you tried to tell me that you could score 5 ringers/match, and my data said that you could only score 2, that would lessen my opinion of your team. However, if your team could score 2 ringers/match because you were a very defensive team and had once held the highest scoring bot at a regional to only 1 ringer, that is going to make a difference to me. The numbers can tell us which robots score 4 ringers a match and which score 1 ringer a match, but it is our impressions of a team and their capabilities that help us decided whether we want to select the robot that scores 3 ringers/match or the robot that scores 3.1 ringers/match.

I agree with others in the thread that it is very important to sell yourself to the right person. Send someone who is knowledgeable about your robot and has seen most of your matches to speak with the scouting captain (or whoever is in charge of picking) about your bot. On one team, talking to the driver may be the best thing to do. On another team, the driver may not have that much input in picking, so talking to them may not help at all.

Selling yourself can definitely be effective. At Chesapeake last year, we were ranked fourth and 1629 was ranked first. From their scouting data, they knew that we had a very strong robot. However, they had not played with us in qualifying and did not know how our robots would do together. From our data, we knew that they had a strong robot and, although they didn't have a the highest scoring average, they did have a very high average. We also felt that their strengths complimented ours. So I and a member of our pit crew went to talk to their driver who was doing the picking. Although he knew that we were a high scoring robot, he was looking for a robot that could also do well defensively. We spoke with him about our defensive capabilities and our two-speed drive (which he was unaware of). This helped to move us up near the front of who they were looking to chose. They did end up choosing us (along with 1184 who we both felt was strong) and the result was a regional win.

So selling yourself can definitely drastically change the outcome of a competition just so long as it is done in the right way to the appropriate person on the other team.

Re: Picking alliances
 

If you want to get picked...start early. Get your robot to every practice session. Maybe it can't do everything in the beginning, but I can scout it as you work on it and it improves. I can get a "feel" for it early. Show me what you are good at. So you don't have a ramp or an arm, play defense like crazy.

Put big, readable numbers on your robot. Scouts usually get pushed to the sides or way up in the stands by the teams who want to stand when their robot is on the field (of course then no one else can see their robot.)

Sending your human player to the field doesn't do much. You might send the human player into the stands with donuts!

If you are going to prepare something ahead of time, be sure to include a photo of the robot (keep the team members out of the picture.) Keep the information short. Don't lie! Don't say you are working on something if you aren't. Something the size of an index card works best for me.

Be friendly. The team you are rude to today may not pick you tomorrow.

Ken

Re: Picking alliances
 

Readable is the key. Black on robot insides is NOT visible from the stands. Even sticking paper behind the numbers would help. Better yet, follow the rules on size, stroke, and contrast. Trust me, if I can't see your numbers, I can't identify you easily, and that means I have to use elimination to figure out who you are. Having two robots with this problem on the same alliance means that somebody has wrong data or doesn't get scouted at all.

Definitely be friendly. Ignoring the top 8, even if you are in the top 8, can be fatal.

Re: Picking alliances
 

Yep, team 2230 in Israel got a bad ranking due to loads of problems with our ranking alliances and we always lost with them(and they won with the other alliances, so they ranked up while we kept going down untill we reached the last ranking), but in the end we got picked by the #6 alliance and we reached the semi-finals which for our first year rocks!

Re: Picking alliances
 

I have to agree with Nir!
Although team 2230 was ranked last in the seeding, they had an amazing robot. It just comes to show how much the ranking depends on luck.
You can see 2230's robot here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckTOJ...elated&search=

Re: Picking alliances
 

I think everyone can see that scouting is what will get you picked and not ranked...but here is a little tale from the 2004 season that proves this even more...and how "schmoozing" can help your team out:

At the 2004 Chesepeake regional, our team was doing really well. We had been doing so well after Friday that it looked like we were going to make the top 8, and we did in fact make the top 8. Come saturday morning, team 122 came over, attempting to "schmooze" us, and they had perfect timing, and perfect execution. They told us their story of why they had finished near the bottom of the rankings. They said we really are a great robot, come watch us on the practice field.

We checked our scouting notes and saw that some scouts thought this team was capable of being fantastic. We watched them on the practice field and were amazed at what they could do and how they finished near the bottom.

We all talked and finally agreed we would take this team near the bottom of the rankings as our 1st pick!! We went into the quarterfinals, and WON. We did unfortunately lose in the semifinals...but this is not where the story ends.


We went to another regional after Chesepeake that year, the inaugural Palmetto Regional. We played FANTASTICALLY here and finished number 3, and were picked by the number 2 seed. We go through the whole picking process, and now its time to pick our 3rd partner....who to choose?? Well our good friends from Chesepeake team 122 were also competing at the Palmetto Regional, and they once again finished poorly in the rankings. We convinced our partners to pick team 122 as our 3rd partner, telling them they would not be disappointed...and they were not because we won the whole regional, and we have team 122 to thank. The 3rd team, 9 times out of 10 is what wins you the regional, especially when the matches are 2 v. 2. So thanks again 122, and we hope you had a great 2004 season because I know we did.

This is just another example of how scouting, schmoozing, and most importantly a good head on your shoulders will help your team get into eliminations..even if you did not place well in qualifiers.

Re: Picking alliances
 

If your team’s robot is a capable one, you won’t have to worry about selling yourself to the top team if you ranked low. A good team most likely would have a nice scouting system and don’t even look at the ranking sheet. We didn’t go of the ranking sheet when we picked. We had our own ranking sheet that tells us who matches us the best.

Here’s what happened at PNW. The team that ranked the top 3 wasn’t the most experience team out there. We ranked 4th and we had a nice scouting system. I don’t believe the top 3 teams did. From their pick, it seems like that they picked off the ranking only. The first ranked team picked the second ranked team and the third ranked team picked some other team in the top 8. We, as the 4th ranked team got to pick or first choice ring placer and what our data showed as the best ring placer there, 272. We were hoping the second best ring placer, 360, would not get picked and circle back to us because they were ranked so low. But they got picked a few picks ahead of our second pick. Team 272 and 360 was clearly the best ring placers at PNW, but because of the messed up “randomization” matching system, they played each other every single qualifying match. 272 ended up ranking 11th and 360 was ranked 36. Thanks to our scouting team, we were able to pick the best ones out of the crowd and win it all.

So if you have a good bot but ranked low, it might even be a good thing. Because if the top ranked teams weren’t the best ones, and mostly likely won’t have a scouting system, you would be saved to be picked by a good team that didn’t get ranked too high in the top 8 who has a nice scouting system.

Re: Picking alliances
 

One point to make about Atlanta. Our team will be overworked since we have an FRC team (180) and an FVC team (3228) at the events. FVC is going to be a monster to scout. The current team list has 69 teams, but there are supposed to be some international teams that are not present on the list yet. The website says "almost 100 teams". They are not breaking us into different divisions like FRC.

Scouting (the way we scout for FRC) will not be possible, so we will just do our best. With other teams in the same situation, I will probably put together a promotional flyer for our FVC team.

Re: Picking alliances
 

When lots of teams are picking their alliance partners they will look at what they want. Some teams look at rank also, some don't. We didn't really have a scout team so at the last minute we just looked at who we had seen play before and we wanted a awesome offense, and a second defense/offense bot. I can tell you that we did not look at the ranks. The ranks that our alliance partners had were 28 and 48. To us, ranks did not matter (actually we didn't even look at them until after), we wanted teams that complimented our abilities. We are a purely defense/ramp bot. We won the regional.

Another thing to think about is a good team image. Before eliminations, we did not know that we would even get in, let alone pick for ourselves. We wanted to have an image that stuck out in people's minds. I think that our Awkward Turtles stuck out in peoples minds.

Re: Picking alliances
 

I love the responses I'm getting, kudos to the CD community out there, but I still have one huge dillema with "selling" our own team:
the draft system is built the way it is for a reason, if my team tries to "sell" our team to another team that might've picked a better robot, we are simply screwing that alliance over. Maybe from my perspective, our robot was great, and in our "selling" process, it also sounds great, but is it a fact? I don't want to sway a team from possibly picking a more worthy candidate. If we were to enter eliminations, and my team performs worse than a robot that was not picked (but might've been the original decision of a alliance captain), i would feel horrible if this was a result of our "schomoozing" up to the alliance captain. I believed in the system, in that if you have a good robot worthy of eliminations, it would be picked. Maybe the one or 2 teams had bad scouting, and we fell through, but there were potentially, 16 team captains (for the second pick) up there with their lists, it is hard for me to believe that our robot's performance fell through the cracks for all 16 teams. We are not used car salesmen, and I still feel like the performance of a robot is best judged from a unbiased point of view, void of inputs from the teams that are being chosen. In addition, i felt like the SHARC team's booklet on the teams at the CO regional spoiled the chances for a good team ranked low to be picked. The booklet did not include actual performance of each team, and only the specs. specs can look good on paper, and when a team did not have good scouting, they simply relied on the booklet. It was obvious that the 8th alliance captain at CO just flipped through that book for his selections, maybe he had notes written in there, but it was clear that he had no clear choices (as he let the 7th alliance captain make their 2nd round pick before him). While I believe this kind of booklet was produced in goodwill by team SHARC, and I welcome their efforts to ease scouting, I believe it is each team's responsibility to still scout, and base their opinion each robot on their own data.

Re: Picking alliances
 

"I love the responses I'm getting, kudos to the CD community out there, but I still have one huge dillema with "selling" our own team:
the draft system is built the way it is for a reason, if my team tries to "sell" our team to another team that might've picked a better robot, we are simply screwing that alliance over."

You are not "screwing that alliance over." I think most teams look for partners who compliment their own robots. When teams try to sell themselves to us, we try to be honest with them. You can tell a team with two wheel drive and casters in the front that you are looking for a robot with a little more power. You can tell a robot without an arm that you are looking for a hanging robot. The key is to tell the selling robot NICELY!

Keep on selling yourself but don't be disappointed if you are not selected. Think of the fun you had at the regional. When we do not get selected, we go sit near a team we know and cheer with them. It never hurts to start selling a year early!

Ken

Re: Picking alliances
 

I agree. It is a team’s responsibility to have a good scouting system if they are a good team and is going to pick. And yes, good teams have their own systems that show them which robot best compliment their own robot. We had a lifter so we were not looking for lifters, no matter now good they are. So many people tried to sell themselves to us at PNW it got a little awkward. And I just try to tell them that we have a scouting system that will make them stand out if their robot fits us. Out scouting team takes the data of every match and makes comments about each robot so that we have complete statistics and feature for every single robot in the regional (It really doesn’t take much. All you need is 6 students to take data and a couple to enter and organize the data. You do need a complete spreadsheet ahead of time though.). We then factor the areas that compliment us such as ring scoring and ability to climb and rank them in our own list. That list is completely independent of the matches rank. I know what you mean about bias in selection and I believe that our system minimizes bias opinions.

Re: Picking alliances
 

The scouting booklet made by SHARC couldn't possibly have included the robot's performances, it was distributed on Friday morning to aide in every team's scouting. It wasn't a ranking booklet.

Informing teams of your performance, not what you THINK you can do but what you actually HAVE DONE, during the competition isn't going to unfairly sway an alliance's opinion.
Used car salesmen are supposed to sell you a car full of defects by exaggerating the few good points of the car and hiding every defect. This isn't what you're doing when you go to other teams to inform them of your robot. You are accurately informing the teams of your capabilities.

Re: Picking alliances
 

And here's another issue:
If a team's scouting is not good enough to notice a good robot, do you really want to be selected by them? Chances are, that their other pick would not be carefully chosen either. As a matter of fact, if they choose you, then you may lose the chance to be placed on a better alliance (assuming this is round 2 of selections).

On the flip side, what i think the "selling" process sold be, is giving the top 12 teams a datasheet, of objective performance of ur robot at the regional. for example, for rack and roll, u may include total number of tubes scored, with the team numbers of those you've climbed onto, and those that have climbed onto you. This way, teams with limited resources and without a complete scouting database have a chance to take a look at your robot.

I guess its a lesson at arrogance for me this year, I simply assumed our team would get picked, and made no effort to inform the alliance captains of our performance. Completely relying on the system doesn't quite work out all the time. Too bad it's my last year. :(

Re: Picking alliances
 

My best advice is to ignore the rankings and to make your own independent ranking system. We ranked teams this year based on average number of tubes scored per match and quality of ramps. Friday night me and another mentor were up to midnight at the Holiday Inn (BMR) making decisions on alliance selection...even though we were about 17 and didnt expect to be picking. However, we moved up on Saturday and then moved up to 7th seed during alliance selection. We ended up turning down the number 5 seed in order to select our own alliance. It actually payed off because we made it to the finals.

Should you sell your team? I think so. Selling your team can be the key to being selected, even though you may be a lesser known team.

Re: Picking alliances
 

We didn't really sell as much as I would of hoped, so we didn't get picked unfortunatly. We would of made the top 8 if it wasn't for a few technicalities that lost us the game (SPOILERS!!!), the second day of seeding matches. We were one of the good, consistant, high scorers, but we had very little time to practice before ship, and the field team was a little shakey at the Philly Regional. If we had some more practice with the rack, we could of done some improvements beforehand instead of the practice day, which eventually led to missing more practice matches, etc.

All a learning experience, the best we can do now is prepare even more for next year. Hopefully we'll be attending the NJ regional as well as Philly and Nats, so we'll be an even stronger team than before - and maybe even become a finalist somewhere.