Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I'm not in this situation, but I would handle it the same way that I do when my mom calls cross country, "track" - correct them. Constantly. I would interject "the Championship" right after they say "nationals." Whether or not it may be considered rude, IMO being interrupted makes a person more likely to remember their mistake (though it can work the other way around - Imma let you finish, Kanye...), and fix it to avoid being embarrassingly interrupted again. It also makes whoever they're talking to aware that the terminology has changed, and that they should be able to understand that both refer to the same event (regardless of the political incorrectness of "nationals").

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

One of the cool parts of a young team: If you never call it anything but the Championship, this problem never happens.

Start with the kids and then it should trickle down to everyone else, if not immediately, in a few years or so.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Firstly, the only thing I hate more than people misnaming things is 3 year old threads being brought back from the dead to continue complaining about people misnaming things. I see the main issue as making sure people "outside of the loop" don't get confused, but many, including myself, find it easier in casualspeak to use the old term. Therefore I propose the following solution:

When talking around non-FIRSTers: Please strive to only use variants of Championship*
When talking around FIRST newbies: Please strive to only use variants of Championship*
When talking around Veterans: Who cares? Everyone knows what you're talking about, and if they don't, then you get to tell your inspirational stories about the ol' days
When IMing, Tweeting, or FBing: CMP actually rolls off the keyboard easer than Ntls*
On CD: See Veterans. Everyone on here either knows what you're talking about, or will pick up on it soon enough when they search for "Nationals" and come across this thread. :rolleyes:

*In any case, I think calling the CMPs by their venue is also acceptable - "Atlanta," "Georgia Dome," "Epcot," "Orlando," "Disney," and "Houston," all convey the message adequately. Next year in St.L this may change, but I'm sure someone will resuscitate this thread back from the dead if that happens.

{on soapbox} Yes Yes Yes, we get that calling it "Championships" is important for the FRC Meme, and please try to do so in mixed company. But if it's not cases [1] or [2] above, graciously bite your lip and leave us alone. For deep in the hearts of some of us, it's still Truck Town Terror, it's still Bionic Zebras, it's still Baxter Bomb Squad, we still play at Great Lakes, NASA/VCU, and Nationals, 71 is still "The Pepsi Team," 51 will be known as "Huskie Chiefs" behind their backs, 33 is still the team from Avondale, we still plug in our OIs and turn on our RCs, the thing with the blinky lights that fails every other match is still the "radio," I'm still "that kid from 217," and I still go past Pine Knob on the way to GMI in Flint! No, some of those things that I just mentioned haven't been correct for a decade or more, but for old-timers, it hearkens back to good memories, friends come & gone, and a simpler time - don't take that away from us. If its not actively harming the FIRST image to outsiders, or potentially derogatory, leave the old-timers alone. {/soapbox}

{Edit} And in mixed company, like Karibou says, correct them. If it's not around newbies, let it go

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

On a related note, when is usfirst.org going to be first.org? Just saying...

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

You gotta be careful when correcting someone though. It annoys the heck out of some people. Also FIRST has one phrase that trumps "Nationals vs The Champs", almost every team says it when being picked for the elims "We Garishly (Think i got the spelling right) accept". It's an undo-able statement, but no one has a cow over that. Just let us people that call it Nationals call it that. Everyone knows what we mean, if someone is going to get offended over it, In my own opinion that's petty.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I know that I saw either a thread or a post in this thread about that. I think that the verdict was that it won't be, because a) http://first.org is kind of already in use, and b) it would involve going through and changing links...from everywhere. All of their documents would need to be re-done, and so would all of the documents of each team. Not to mention links from team websites, links to http://usfirst.org from other external websites, etc.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

It isn't politically incorrect. It's incorrect, period.

Unless you're talking about an event which occurred long ago, the name "nationals" is just plain wrong. It's as wrong as calling the winner of the Indianapolis 500 a jockey, or using the word "faxing" to refer to sending email. It's not merely that the label has changed; the actual thing is different.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

But usfirst.org is no longer representative of FIRST and could be offensive to international teams. Im just thinking that if we are going to throw a fit about people calling Championship Nationals we need to make an effort across the board to delete all US-centric verbiage. While we are at it, why is the manual only released in English?

Im not saying that the Championship/Nationals debate is pointless or wrong. The event is called The Championship Event, call it as such. I just think we have much bigger problems to tackle than a handful of old-timers mixing up names. Do we really not have anything better to do than bicker about it?

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

You're post in this thread, so do you have anything better to do than bicker about it? I guess not.

There's variation, we can remove variation and make communication and life easier. If variation is not removed it can be passed down to newer people and processes.

Remove variation.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

The event is the same, the only thing that's changed is the venue. There were international teams when it was called Nationals in 1998, there are still international teams now that it's the Championship. The National Hockey League and the National Basketball Association are still National even though there are Canadian teams. Why are they still that way? Because a majority of teams that compete are still American. It IS a simple labeling issue; fax/email and horse/car racing are bad arguments.

LOL, Joe Matt sounds like the Borg: "There's variation. It must be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

You can remove variation by getting rid of the international teams and going back to Nationals too. I'm not suggesting that - that's ridiculous. Variation is good for a system - it's good for innovation and inspiration. The problem with a homogeneous population is that it stagnates and becomes vulnerable. Look at bananas - farmers eliminated variation, and what used to be called bananas became extinct through disease. Now what is now called a banana is experiencing the same problem - they're a homogeneous population that's vulnerable to a new banana disease, and they too will soon become extinct.

Variation in FIRST is what makes the program so successful. In this specific case, a labeling issue, it can create confusion in the public, which is why it should be discouraged, but internally, there are undertones with the "National" label that communicate the history of the event and how its changed and, yes, improved through variation.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

This still seems to be a sensitive issue for some. There are people who believe that they have the right to call it nationals if they so choose (which, they do), and that there truly isn't any need to change. The other group believes that by calling it nationals, you exclude those international teams and disrespect them in the same breath.

I would be interested to see what some international teams choose to call it.

((On a less important note would be my opinion as to what to call it. I have never heard it called anything but "the World Championship" or "Atlanta". as such, I call it Atlanta when I am speaking with my team or other FIRSTers, and The World Championship when I am speaking to sponsors, family, friends, etc. While I understand both sides of the argument, I believe it is always better to err on the side of respectfulness.))

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

You would think that a bunch of smart people than can deal with literally hundreds of rules and guidelines could get something as simple as this correct!

formally known as "The Championship Event"

informally referred to (I heard Woodie say this) : "The Big Show"

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

This doesn't quite cover the different facets of the discussion.

Another facet is how the name of the event shows the span of the event and its potential global impact. World Championship shows a much broader span and a deeper field of competition - just by its very name.

Regarding the international teams - they are part of our FIRST community, and regarding this particular topic - our FRC community. As teams continue to grow and develop in other countries, this is only going to grow and strengthen in impact.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

The event has most definitely changed.

I wasn't around for the "National Championship" years, but I am pretty good at learning history. Back in "the day", there were no regionals outside the US. FIRST Lego League was not part of the event. There were no conference presentations. Until 2002, every team in FRC could participate without restriction.

Even ignoring size and location, the Nationals of the 20th Century and the FIRST Championships of the 21st are qualitatively different.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I apologize, I was merely trying to condense as much as I could in a small space. There have been many strong points made, please excuse my poor job at representing them.

You're very right, it does paint the picture of a much deeper, more impactful event. Largely why I call it as such. However, I do understand where mentors like Alan are coming from with their argument for calling it nationals still.