It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

It's been 7 years since it's been called Nationals, so people, please stop calling it that. There are many international teams, both in FRC, FLL, JFLL, and FVC, and calling the competition Nationals instead of the proper title, Championship, ignores those teams and their achievements. Calling it Nationals doesn't make you old skool or anything; it makes you look lazy and frankly somewhat ignorant.

Please, it's Championship. The sub-forum is labeled it, FIRST hasn't called it that in many years, and teams from all over the world attend the event, it's not a "national" event in any stretch of the imagination.

*gets off soap box*

Re: It's No Longer Nationals...
 

Someone should tell Dean.

He still calls it Nationals ;)

Re: It's No Longer Nationals...
 

I've only been in FIRST for 2 years (second season so not a full two years), and when I was first told about the event it was introduced to me as "Nationals".
I'M GOING TO NATIONALS WOO
You're always going to have the veterans that say it out of habit, and that will influence the younger generation to call it that also.
I'M GOING TO CHAMPIONSHIP WOO
I have recently gotten into the habit of calling it "ATL" but I also tend to call it everything, ATL, Champs, CMP, Championship, and Nationals.
I'M GOING TO ATL WOO

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Yea Dean still calls it nationals. He called it that at SVR. So as far as I'm concerned if the guy that runs the show calls it nationals it must be OK.

And besides why did you start a thread on this. It's..... pointless.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Part of the problem with "The Championship" vs. "Nationals" stems from the words themselves. "The Championship" requires a "the", because saying "I am going to the Championship" is the only way to say it that makes sense. "I am going to Nationals" is shorter and more flexible. Furthermore, "nats" is a much easier abbreviation than "champs", especially in oral communication.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Just because Dean is the FOUNDER of FIRST doesn't mean he runs the whole event. No single person can run the whole event. And just because one VERY important individual states something, doesn't necessarily mean that it is the correct way to continue.
I feel that Joe started this thread to try and spread awareness that "The Championship" is the more (and I use this lightly) "Politically Correct" term for the event. You have to keep in mind that there are teams from all over the world attending this event, not just teams from The United States, while FVC and FLL bring in more foreign teams than FRC, FRC still brings in teams from Canada, The UK, Brazil, Isreal, Mexico and The Netherlands.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

How about calling it "Internationals"? I'm going to Internats - yeah!

Or simply call it, "The Event".

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I think that as long as everyone knows what you're talking about, which they typically do, either one is fine.

Technically you're right, but it's a minor detail and it's still the same event.

Now if there were to be national compititions in adition to the championship, that would be a different story...

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

It should be called "The World Championship Event" not "The Championship Event". In my opinion the latter does not sound as impressive as "Nationals" when conversing with someone outside of FIRST. The championship event of what? Your county? State? etc.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I call it "The World Championship" It sounds most impressive when we talk to potential sponsors.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Joe started this thread for people like you who don't know that using the proper name is important. It's only pointless if you refuse to acknowledge that the Championship isn't named "Nationals" anymore.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

How bout "The Show" (Okay, Baseball season just started, I know I'm not the only fan)

Maybe if we get a good nickname to stick, everyone (myself included) will stop calling it "nats" in a couple years.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Yep, I am totally agreeing with the above statement because we have international teams coming from around the world and I feel that its a disrespect to not recognize all the achievements and accomplishments of these FRC,FLL,JFLL,and FVC teams.


Also agree with this statement! It sounds more professional when talking to potential sponsors and trying to raise money for this prestigious event.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

The Championship, The Championship Event, The World Championship, The international Championship, Internationals, Champs, Nationals, Nat's, ATL...



I just call it the best time of my life.




Joe is correct it is no longer Nationals due to the many international teams that participate in the various events at the Championship Event.

When talking to outsiders, a.k.a non FIRST people, I always use the World Championship because it sounds much better and gives somewhat of a better description of what occurs.

See all of you in ATL :)

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

The Spring Classic? The April Classic?

-Guy

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I like to call it Hotlanta... but that's a personal thing. Otherwise, I call it "The World Championship Event." If I'm out to impress, I say, "The International Championship, hosting over 300 teams from 6 nations of the world."

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

How about

"The 2007 FIRST Robotics Competition International World Championship Event Of Atlanta Consisting Of Competition, Gracious Professionalism, Robots, And Geeky Fun"?

Somehow I doubt it will catch on

:D

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I've been reading about Internats all day on the Internets.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

The problem with calling it “The Championship” is that it doesn’t mean anything to non-FIRSTers. Championship of what?

Calling it the Nationals sounds more impressive and descriptive (esp. when you are trying to raise money.)

I have gotten into the habit of calling it the “World Championship” to outsiders.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Word of FIRST is getting out. I'm having people from all over the place contacting me and asking me what is going on in Atlanta. I want to make sure that I use the correct terminology when providing information to them.

Also, each year, our team has new students and their parents enter the team as seniors and their parents become alumni. If we give mixed signals to the new members, it will never get straight. It is good to start from the beginning with the correct terminology in spoken and written form.

It takes practice just like everything.
Jane

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I'm for "That Which Must Not Be Named." The only problem with it is that nobody would have any idea what we're talking about. It's hard for something to catch on if nobody understands what it is talking about.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I don't know if Dean has got the memo.... an International team won the Championships last year :p

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

How about....

THE BIG ONE!!!!!!!

And btw, Dean doesn't run the show. He's a big part of FIRST, but saying that is like saying Bush runs the country. Does he have a big say? Yes. Does he "run the show?" No.

GET HYPE for THE BIG ONE!!!

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Dean runs FIRST as much as the royal family runs England.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Simply stated, he's the face and the beginning factor.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

+5 points to Rich.

Dean doesn't run the show, he just started the show, and stays a part of it.


Also, Dean still calls it Nationals on impulse, just like I do. Everyone who's been around calls it that....that DOESN'T mean we shouldn't try to teach ourselves to say Championship, World Championship, or whatever you choose to [accurately] call it.


Second Edit:
Not quite. The royal family in England is ceremonial...but Dean is still on the GDC and Board of Supervisors.

Sorry....I had to. I get what you mean, though...

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Lets just call it Atlanta and get it over with ;)

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I like this thread a lot because most of the seniority of our team try and correct our team when they call it nationals. It is not nationals, it is the championships.
Or the international championships. it seems more inviting towards foreign teams when it is not called nationals. idk that is just how i feel.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Which is when I turn up the emphasis: The Championship. ;)

I'm willing to let it slide in conversation (compare with when someone says another person "did good"), but come on, this is the Internet! You can go back and fix it before you post!

But, I admit, anyone around me has probably heard me talk about Atlanta far too much.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

When I'm talking with friends I say things like "I'm won't be here this Friday, I'm going to Atlanta" Because most of them know why I'll ge there. But if they don't know and ask why I say I'm going to the robotics championship.

We could call it The anual migration and gathering of FIRSTers. :D

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

If there is to be a Champion crowned there then it should be called the Championships. If there are teams from outside the U.S. then it is not a national competition but rather a World Championship.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

On all documents, I call it the World Championship. Just makes it seem that much more important to the general public.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Just saw this in the CD Portal...



(I added the LOL, of course)

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Personal opinion, take what you will:

Nationals is how I knew it first when my sister screamed into the phone back in 2002 that "we had won 'nationals'"

Nowadays, considering its an international event, I like calling it the Championship Event, or just plain the championship or Champs.

World Championship goes a little too bold, in that we have yet to see teams come from the North and South Poles to compete :p (Santa and his Elves have a team yet??? Whats their number???)... I stick to calling the Champs an International event. ;)

So its champs, and its fun that way, at least in my perspective.

*shrugs*

-Joe

PS: or we could just call it that big thingy/gathering down in Atlanta... yeah... :rolleyes:

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Let's not. I'm rooting for the Championship to be hosted in Indianapolis in the near future, and I don't want the place name being too closely associated with the event.

Too many people still act like Epcot is the "natural" home of the First Robotics Competition Championship as it is. :p

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I never give mixed signals, I always call it Nationals :p

I am wrong to call it that, but all my days of doing presentations has conditioned me to it.

I wonder if any of the veteran Canadians that were around for when it was called Nationals still call it that (Kathik? Ian? other woburners?) accidentally or if it is only the folks in the US that make this mistake.

P.S. I dream of the day that FIRST comes back to it's home in Disney, FIRST's "natural home".

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I call them "Internationals" when I want people to be impressed. Otherwise I could care less, everybody still knows what you are talking about.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Speaking of baseball and politically correct terms of championship events... why is the baseball championship called the "World Series"? ;)

Nothing is ever going to be politcally correct in today's world. Something will always anger someone else. I just call it "Nationals" out of habit and don't really plan on changing that.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Yup, I call it Nationals all the time. The Championship Event has never had the right ring to me. I'd love it if FIRST officially changed the name to "The World Championships" and then we could all say "I'm going to Worlds next week". I know that's the terminology all my friends who've competed in amateur sports (swimming, diving, etc.) have used. Makes it sound like a big deal.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I like Nationals better for a couple reasons

Saying that we're going to the Championship event in Atlanta implies that we won and earned our way, however in most cases, we haven't.

Also, when I refer to the teams who won the whole event, Championship Champions sounds rediculous. National Champions sounds better.

I don't really want to seem like I'm ignoring the teams from out of the country (it's kind of hard to ignore the Canadian teams :ahh: ), but it just is easier to say, easier to listen to, and sounds better.

Maybe we should call it worlds? There are many more Vex teams and Lego teams from other countries that show up to Atlanta. Worlds would make the most sense.

Or I just refer to it as "Atlanta".

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

"National Champions" just isn't right, though, if one of the winning teams is not American, as was the case last year.

My vote goes for "World Championships". This name has the added benefit that regional MCs won't get in trouble with FIRST if they happen to introduce a team as the "World Champions" (yes, it did happen).

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Some more productive pedagogy:
"Definitely" means without a doubt while "defiantly" is a synonym for rebelliously.
"You're" is short for "you are". "Your" is an adjective used to show possession.
"They're" is short for "they are". "There" indicates a location. "Their" is another adjective used to show possession.
"It's" is short for "it is". "Its" is another one of those pesky adjectives used to show possession.
http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/
Finally it's G-A-L-I-L-E-O!

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I don't think it really matters what you call it...both names make it sound big, great, loud, and wonderful event all around....but I like to say the Championship because it does acknowledge all the international teams. Really having those teams is a great thing, and it's a sign of achievement in the FIRST community!

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I think of it this way. We have world teams competing, so why wouldn't we call it the World Championships? Look at the threads, who is everyone calling this year's top contender? Who got picked top 5 in every FF? A Canadian team. When FIRST accepted them into the organization, we accepted them into our titles. Besides that, I think that being world champions will be much more fun than national champions ;) :p

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I'm one of those people who still reflexively calls it "Nationals". If I think about it, or I'm writing something out, I'll usually take the time to correct myself. However, in general conversation, I'm still apt to call it "Nationals"... old habits die hard.

That being said, if they were to officially start calling it the "World Championship", I think I could live with that. Just calling it the "Championship Event" has never sounded right, to me.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Though most in the FIRST community know what you mean when you say "Nationals," there are those that will take it literally, so I think it's better to stick with something to the effect of "The Championship" to prevent confusion and an entire thread dedicated to this topic. In addition to that, when speaking to those outside of FIRST, I'm sure that using the word "world" will imply what you're talking about, without having to further explain what you mean.:D

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

My team says Championships when talking to people outside our team and until it's not at the Georgia Dome, we're in the habit of saying Atlanta. Our coach says Nationals though:rolleyes: .

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Last year, when we went, we always said (er...screamed) "WE"RE GOING TO ATLANTA!" to other members on the team. When explaining it to anybody else, we first said that we were going to Championships, and then further explained that we would be competing with hundreds of teams from around the world.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

This is one (of many) of my biggest pet peeves in FIRST.

I have recently held a conversation with FIRST about use of correct terminology, and will be including those tips in the upcoming NEMO white paper on marketing your team via your team website.

If you are a member of the FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC), you are attending the "FIRST Robotics Competition Championship." You have previously competed in FRC Regional Competitions this season.

If you are a member of the FIRST Vex Challenge (FVC), you are attending the "FIRST Vex Challenge World Championship." You have previously competed in FVC Championship Tournaments this season.

If you are a member of the FIRST LEGO League (FLL), you are attending the "FIRST LEGO League World Festival." You previously competed in FLL Championship Tournaments this season.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Kathy,

So, is using 'FRC' 'FVC' and 'FLL' not ok anymore?

Jon Mittelman

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

WOW! We all must be in the EYE of the storm waiting for the winds to pick up again.

Interesting how the use of words for an event can mean different things to different people...while we all know why we are going... to celebrate a segment of our lives that will change us and the world forever.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

The word "Nationals" is a unisex tag, meaning that it doesn't apply to just one national; that simple little "s" makes it plural. Nationals means that many nations are competing in a competition between your nation and other nations. I really don't see what the big deal is, I think when someone says "we're going to Nationals this year" I instantly know more than "our team is going to the Championship".

Let's focus on something more useful than making threads about a word.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I've been in FIRST since '04, it was called the Championship then so thats what I call it, I've caught myself calling it Nationals once or twice, but I still like calling it the Championship.

My personal favorite is when Canadians refer to it as 'Nationals'

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

hehe, canadians. :p

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

No, they're still fair game to describe the programs. For better reading: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=2359

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Nice Mike! Thank you.
Jane

P.S. It is hard to wait. :)

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

So, according to Mr. Marchiony... our team can't present ourselves as QC Elite FIRST Robotics Team #648... instead it should be QC Elite FIRST Robotics Competition Team #648.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

That is correct, if that is the program you are participating in. Since my focus is more on FVC now I would assume you are an FVC team without it!

I am a "wordsmith" I guess, and a strong stickler for details (as any poor soul who has worked with me would know). I send corrections to webmasters when I find misspelled words or typos on their sites. Saying that words don't really matter is like saying you can use a widget when a gizmo is really what is needed. (And that's as technical an explanation as you're going to get from me).

And to all the members of NEMO - you are "NEMs" - pronounced "neem" - not NEMOs. :)

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Doesn't the word "team" mean you will be in a competition of some sort. To me saying Robotics Competition Team sounds a little redundant.

The Apes of Wrath, Pioneer High School Robotics Competition Team #668..... Ugh. I'll stick to Robotics Team, or Vex Team, or Lego League Team. No "Competition" needed.

But that's just my opinion.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

If you are paticipating in the FRC program, the name of your program is the FIRST Robotics Competition; like it or not, "Competition" is part of the name of the program.
There is no such thing as a "Vex Team" in FIRST. Vex refers to the Vex Robotics Design System, the parts that are used to make the robot. The program is called FIRST Vex Challenge.
FIRST LEGO (capitalized) League is the name of the program for 9-14 year olds.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

It's just a matter of the name of the PROGRAM. Whether it's implied or not, it's still the official title. Want to save yourself time? Say you're part of FRC Team # 668. And then when people ask you what FRC is, then you worry about the competition part =)

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

-"Championships"
-Atlanta
- etc

I dont think it really matters what you call it. As long as you respect what goes on and do your part to insure that the spirt of the competition is never harmed it shouldn't matter. You could call it, "That one spot I'd give my arm to go to again," or "That place we dont have the money to go to next year."

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

OK now the gloves are off. I have been sitting here patiently reading the fluff. As many know Nationals is a pet peeve of mine. The fact is that Nationals are what nations do before going to the Championship. Seeing that we have Regionals that we go to and teams from all countries are invited to, these are not Nationals. To the fact that other countries are invited to Championship then it could not be construed as Nationals. As for World Champions (Karthik you are bad) seeing that countries do not have Nationals to determine who is to go to the World Championship then again we go back to Championship.

I may be wrong here but I have never know anyone who has not thought of Championship of any sort as not being the final wrap up to determine the best of the best.

Alex, :p :p :p

Please note that there is humor in this post and that there is no (well almost) anger towards Alex.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I'm a stickler for words, too. I'll bring this up when we have time to deal with it... however, I doubt it will change. It's on all of our banners and they aren't cheap. FIRST will probably have to live with the fact that we omit a word.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Well for people that want to refer to it with one word (nationals) instead of having to use two (the championship), you can do what my team has started calling it:

Globals

Compromise?

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I like it; simple and to the point. No need for explanation on this one.:D

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Hurts my tongue. :eek:

I don't know the correct answer for what to call it, but whatever you feel like calling it, you can call it (as long as you don't call it nationals around me).

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Globals was my thought as well. We could take it a step further and take after the Miss Universe competition and just call it Universals - how much more impressive can you get than that!

On another note, I don't see anything wrong with 'Nationals' as long as the website remains www.USfirst.org!

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

(Throwing my hands up in the air...) I'm leaving now to drive to the FVC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS... If anyone wishes to debate this wordsmithing with me further, look for me there! :)

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Well, since every VEX event is a "Championship" event, I am not sure that is much of a differentiator (according to the list of events on the FIRST web site, the only exception appears to be the South Carolina "League Tournament" held in January - everything else is a "Championship").

-dave

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

OK, maybe it could be called "The FIRST Robotics Finals"?

(Is it just me, or was Steve W's triple negative sentence a bit of a brain twister?;) )

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

As far as I can see, the intent of the thread was a reminder to everyone to stop calling the CMP "Nationals", and aside from my personal opinion about the issue or the thread, the thread has evolved into something entirely different.

Please, back on topic! Thanks in advance :)

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Thanks Jess, I didn't mean for this to be me yelling or anything, I just wanted to remind people that it's called Champs for a reason, and that as FIRST gets bigger and has more attention placed on it, we need to standardize what we call it. It's like using a combination of the new and old logo.

:]

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Champs, Nationals, Global...whatever... I'm still not going...sigh

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Does the "s" in the words nationals mean their is more than one nation going. So doesn't that mean it is right? Now if it was the national championship or what not then it would be wrong. But doesn't the words nationalS mean to intend more than one nation? This is one of the few logical reasons I still call it that.

But all in all it is just a name. Nothing in this country is 100% politically correct ie. World Series, and until out of country teams start to seriously feel offended then I don't see a problem with it. Seriously if your an out of countrty team and you feel offeneded like somebody is not recognizing you as a team or leaving you out for being a part of the FIRST Organization then speak up, otherwise the only reason to argue this is just to argue.

But then again, I'm not an English teacher or a crazy smart guy when it comes to spelling and grammar, I'm just an average senior on a robotics team. But is this really necesary to argue? Is it that important to people, and I mean because they feel offended not because it is politically incorrect.

This all my opinion so don't go attacking me because of my words. I have a right to an opinion. Have a great day. See you all at the... na..... cham..... on Thursday =D

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I think that World championships or Globals will work until we get teams from other planets...

Dave, you and the rest of the people at NASA need to get working on that...

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

If I said 'Globals' out loud, it would get stuck in the roof of my mouth and would sound like gumballs - and I don't think my mother would ever 'get' Globals. She 'gets' The Championship and she 'got' Nationals.

Come on Thursday!

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I have watched this thread for a couple days, haven't replied, but have thought a little bit. Here is something I would just like to say:

I think everyone is aware that "nationals" does not represent what the actual competition entails. However, people must also understand it was nationals for a long time, and its hard to break out of that mold. I constantly am correcting myself for saying nationals instead of championships, but its just how I learned it. It has been almost 7 years in FIRST for me, and when I first learned about NATIONALS, thats what they were known as.

I agree with the big push to try and get everyone on board the championship bus, but please understand when people let nationals slip out, its not because they are being disrespectful to teams competing from outside of the U.S., but because thats how they probably learned about nationals/championships. I know thats what my situation is....thanks everyone.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

If you are just looking for an easy term to use, then you should say that you are going to WORC.

The World Of Robotics Championship (WORC) can describe the entire event. It involves people from all over the world, doing all forms of robotics. Also, it is a lot of work. However, it is the most fun work that I have ever done.

WORC is easy to say and follows the pattern of naming FRC, FVC, etc...
but WORC is easier to say then most of the other acronyms (except NEMO).

I will see you at WORC in ATL.

jerry w

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I'm going to work?

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

i just call it "The world finals"
cuz well yea most of the world is there... the robotics world anyways.
know matter wat is called its still fun :D

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Ok I admit it! I do still call it Nationals.

Sorry but old habits die hard. As a kid growing up with this thing I have always known it as Nationals and always will.

But let's be honest here. If it were REALLY a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP wouldn't there be a LARGER number of foreign teams. No offense or anything but most teams are STILL from the U.S.

I love the idea of a Worldwide Championship but when you are telling people in the community about your upcoming FRC event and you call it World Champs you are implying the MOST countries attend the event. When in fact for FRC there aren't more than 10 or 11 I believe. Out of nearly 200 or so countries that is hardly a world competition.

And furthermore, dude, does it really matter?

I think we all just need some more time in the sun to relax and unwind.

HAGS!!

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

That's all that needs to be said. Especially with Dean's HW this year, we need to all be on the same page.

You don't see McDonald's throwing around "i'm lovin it" and "Did somebody say McDonalds?" anymore do you? No..

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

When the winners of the robot competition were announced on Einstein this year, how were they presented? (We had to leave a little early.)

And, how are award winners marketing their wins to the press this year?

Oh also, when teams approached sponsors for money to help them get to Atlanta, how did they market the event to their sponsors?

(We still have plenty of people on our team that use the term, Nationals, btw.)

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I have been calling Championships since I found out that they started calling it Championships. I know when I walked up to the pit admin the little screens said "Welcome to Nationals" but that must have been a typo.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

The FIRST Championship is more than just FRC. Hang around in the FIRST Lego League side of things for a while and you'll quickly recognize the international flavor of the event.

YES. It matters.

Informally, it doesn't really matter what we call it, but this forum is large enough and visible enough that I prefer to keep a certain formality in mind. We dilute the message unless we all use the same term for the same thing. We contribute to the imperfect understanding of FIRST by the general public when we keep using outdated names. We fail to present a coherent picture of what we are if we aren't vigilant about our self-image.

This year, and last year, the big gathering of FIRST folk in Atlanta was officially "The FIRST Championship". The word "National" hasn't been part of it since it was held in the Epcot parking lot in 2001, when all FRC teams were automatically able to attend and there were no qualification requirements.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Other sporting events get away with it.

MLB and the World Series for example, when there is exactly one international team (Toronto Blue Jays).

The Super Bowl winner is called the "world champion" and the NFL contains zero international teams.

FIRST actually is an international competition. Why not erase all ambiguity, and call it the title it rightly deserves--FIRST World Championships (or FIRST World Championship Event)?

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

First off in the world of sports(that is non robotics), the super bowl winner is called the world champion because all the teams in the world have chance to go it is just that all those teams happen to be in the US. Also I think that for all of us here in Northern Virginia, and DC area that it just might get a little confusing with there be 2 things called the Nationals. Personally i still slip into calling it Nationals, but usually in my team we refer to it as going to Atlanta, not champs or globals or WORC or whatever else people call it whether it is right or wrong.

Also if this is international how come all the Reigonals are in the US?(i know that next year this statement will be irrelevant because of the New Zeland Regional). I think that the only dignified ways of refering to it is by calling it Atlanta, Nationals, or the Championship.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Uhm, not to go off on too much of a tangent, but they aren't. The Israel, Brazil, Toronto (Canada) and Waterloo (Canada) FRC regional competition events have been around for a while now.

-dave

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Let us not forget New Zealand now. Sorry guys, but for me "Nationals" still rolls off the tongue a little easier than "Championships". You will hear me use both and "Champs" but don't flame me, I am old and you need to give me a little slack. Half of my FIRST experience was "Nationals" and half "Championships". Maybe next year I will leave the old title behind.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Here's a perspective that I look from -
I've been involved with the university where I work for 25 years. Departmental names can change and change again and change again and then - return to their original name. Office names can change. We changed ours several years ago because the original name was causing confusion. Websites change/ update/stay current with the latest information (or should) - so they can promote the university - accurately and efficiently. One of the first changes that occurs when a staff person receives a title change, is a new order of business cards with the correct title. We work on an international level and we have a reputation that we value, market, and promote. As much as possible, everyone throughout the university and its branches, tries very hard to work together to promote the vision, the goals, and the mission of this educational institution. This includes its events.

Some traditional names can take a while to change, that is true, and depending on the impact or lack of - on the scope of the mission - depends on the amount of effort and expenditure put forth to push for the change.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

First of all, the only thing I hate more than people calling the Championships Nationals is people yelling at people calling the Championships Nationals. Everyone knows why they do it. Yeah, I still do it when I'm typing quickly too or being lazy, and yeah when out in public you should be more careful to use the correct terminology.

You all know, there actually is an easy way to fix this terminology. It seems to me that "Regional" is starting to become an outdated term as well as Nationals did. As Regionals have grown, and now we have "Superregionals" now, as well as having competitions that are transnational, it's obvious that "Regional" doesn't adequately define some competitions anymore. So how about this:

GTR in Toronto, Brazil, Israel, and New Zealand should be heretofore known as "National" competitions (And maybe other humongous regionals such as Boston and Great Lakes). The Brazillian Robotics Nationals, the Israeli Robotics Nationals, The New Zealand Robotics Nationals.

Then since you're forced to use the term "Nationals" to describe a currently existing competition, people will stop using it to describe the Transnational Championship*. It's just a psychological trick.


*Idea #2: If you like "nationals" so much, start forcing yourself to call them "transnationals" or "internationals"

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Seems like every year we go through this... oh well once again...
As I am somewhat new to the FIRST program I have not know it as other than Championship or Champs for short.

One thing I do call it is... The best thing happening in Big A in April! :D
No matter what others call it. :rolleyes:

To quote Shakespeare; What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet; ;)

-p :cool:

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

I remember a time when FIRST held their season ending event at Disney World.

It was a happy time, it was a great time, I had fun, I competed, I felt accepted.

Nationals to me is a specific age in FIRST history. Think about Mickey Mouse, ESPN, Rule Books with less pages than the robot section of this years manual.

I still on occasion call it Nationals because i like to reminisce of those happier times, Not because I am ignorant or lazy (btw thats real polite ;) )

heck I don't even know what Old Skool is and apparently neither does my spell check.

*heads back to his rocking chair*

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Sorry, but when most of your mentors where around when it was called nationals and they dont change, it rubs off on the students.

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

The National Football League is not open to all countries at all. Hence the name.

What about us poor people at Waterloo?? :P:D (we are the only local Waterloo team)

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

lol. Jane has yelled at us on 418 multiple times for calling it "Nationals." Personally I don't give a rat's patootie. It's an event put on by a private organization who has decided to call it whatever they want and can change its name whenever they want. They control who gets in and how they get in, in a fashion similar but not similar to other events (like sporting events) who use similar terminology. I see "Nationals" or the "Championships" for FRC as just another regional, only some people are "invited" (regional winners, CA winners) others are "grandfathered" (Hall of Fame plus first teams), and others get in nearly randomly (Ladder entries). It's not the same as FLL, where all teams have won the Champion's Award at their championship tournaments. I don't even know how FTC works in that respect.

It's up to FIRST to decide what they're going to call it, and I have no problem with that (not that it would make any difference if I did). But if I just decide to call it the "Dean Kamen Atlanta Super-Regional" then that's just how it's going to be.

-Danny

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Well now aren't you special!

To some it may not be an a big issue whether it's called Nationals or Championship, but let's try and consider why some people get so worked up about this. If one is to look at the definitions of "National" you'll find that most definitions refer to a single nation. This is what upsets many people. Since 1998, this culminating event of the FIRST Robotics Competition has involved multiple countries. Whether intended or not, by calling the competition "Nationals", you are inadvertantly disrespecting the efforts and accomplishments of all those teams from other countries who are attending the event.

I understand that old habits die hard, and I understand the mentality of "It's just a name", but please try and consider why people get upset about these sorts of things. I'm never going to be the person who bites someone's head off about accidentally calling it Nationals, but it's fairly irritating to see that someone clearly understands how he could be seen as disrespecting someone, but doesn't "give a rat's patootie". So, if I decide to call that behaviour asinine, "then that's just how it's going to be."

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

Re: It's Championship, Not Nationals
 

No, not really. I just have a problem with calling it the "Championship Tournament," for all reasons I've already enumerated. It's not REALLY a "Championship" because almost literally anybody can get in if they can pay for it. If they called it an "Invitational" then I would have less of a problem with it. But, again, whatever - it's not my competition. I just pay to play.

-Danny