Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

I started out with Team 599 in their rookie year and spent 6 years mentoring them. In the rookie year, there were 3-5 female members. (My memory is a bit hazy.) Late in the build season, one of the members was asked to learn the electrical system from one of the male members. The male member showed her everything about the electrical system that he knew. When we got to competition, he was off at the drivers meeting while the team had to rip the entire robot apart and put it back together. She got the entire robot rewired in one hour. Nobody on our team raised an eyebrow at the fact that she was female. She went on to be the head of the electrical subsystem and taught the new people on subsystem about it each year.

As for me, nobody raised an eyebrow at the fact that I was female during all of my years of mentoring.

I also find that patronizing. However, as an engineer employed with a large company, I have a perspective that I did not see while scanning the other messages in this thread:

I have a good job. I got the job because I was the best qualified for what the company was looking for, not because I'm female. However, being young and female puts me in a highly desirable category for many companies, including my own. Companies want diversity based on race, ethnicity, gender, etc. This means, if there are layoffs, and if it came down to myself and a male engineer with equal abilities, I would be much more likely to keep my job.

In addition to job security (and or ability to get another job), there is a huge bonus to being female. I attend trade shows to look for new equipment for my group. When I attend, if I can look wide-eyed and naive, I tend to get much more information than my male counterparts. (Even if I don't look wide-eyed and naive, I tend to get more information than my male counterparts, come to think of it.)

While I agree that it's frustrating to hear "It's so great that you're in engineering because you're female", like with many other things in life, there are good things to be found. It's all a matter of how you want to twist things around in life. Start looking for the positive way to use your being female as an advantage.

Finally, for those of you that are saying you would be insulted if you were given a scholarship over a guy, do you also believe that affirmative action is a bad thing? Affirmative action is the same exact concept.

indieFan

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

I've witnessed that too on co-ed teams, but not so much on my all-girls teams. The only time I didn't see it on coed teams was where they were all already a close knit group of friends or if they were all starting on the same footing (rookie team). For experienced teams, maybe mentors have to let girls (and everyone on the team for that matter) know that it's ok to as questions and make mistakes. Build a comfort zone... even the most slightly crass mentor can make somebody nervous about being wrong so they stay within their comfort zone.

Also, for me... it stopped mattering that I'm a girl a long time ago. I don't get any "wow you're a girl engineer" comments. The difference I see is, as I got older, people have a higher expectation of me. I am on the same playing field so I have to step up and know what I'm talking about. I don't win design arguements because I'm a girl; its logic, negotiation, and technical proof. But, it takes experience and confidence to discuss my ideas and points with a bunch of engineers standing in a circle trying to solve a problem... and that's what FIRST girls should be getting at some level (problem solving), just to see if they actually DO have an interest in technical stuff.

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

Our team has a pretty even ratio of girls and guys, probably not exactly 50:50 but I dunno the exact numbers.

Gender's never played a role in anything we do, there's no relevant differences between the female and male members of our team.

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

I just wanna throw this out there. But who is it that decides that the ngineering world is a world for the boys? If you think about it, the majority is parents. How many of you girls had parents who bought you a tool set when you were 5? had fathers who let you help on projects around the house? Now how many of you had parents who bought you barbies and dresses?

I am not saying that girls shouldn't have dresses but if you look at it, it is how people are brought up. Who is to say boys and girls think differently? Boys and girls have different natural instincts, which well obviously I guess would make them think differently, but they have different problem solving skills becuase that is how they are brought up. What girls had parents who emphasized math science,and shop class? Now what guys had parents who emphasized having nice clothes and looking pretty?

I think that in 50 years there will be many many more girls in the fields becuase of our generation. We are all learning that girls should have the smae chance as guys, so when we have children we won't be as seperative of their fields of interest.

My 2 cents....
-John

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

What I meant was that it seems like you are saying that the only way to get girls involved is to initiate them force them to work on the robot.

Sorry for the confusion.

We do something similar to this but is more of a workshop in every aspect of the team where we force everyone to try each part. Everyone has to put together a scrapbook section for themselves, try some web design, wire some devices, and do actual work on last years robot.

Maybe the girls you attract to robotics are very shy, but the two that now work on our robot came because they wanted to work on a robot, not make designs or marketing assets for a team.
Now with some girls, and many boys on our team, they are intimidated by the prospect of building and would rather work elsewhere in scrapbooking or design. In that case initiation does help, but with the other two girls on our team, working with their hands on the robot isn't fun to them. They joined because their brothers were on the team and found what they do now to be more rewarding than robot work. This is the same with six other boys who do non-robot work as well.

While making them work on a robot might seem more a part of FIRST, they don't find that as fun as the work they do now that keeps their hands quite full.

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

This is an ongoing debate....and probably off topic here...but when psychologists study the nature/nurture issue scientifically, the findings tend to show that there is a lot of built in behavior--the genetic differences are substantial. But they also show that there is an environmental effect--how you are brought up will affect later behavior.

So don't be surprised that most girls are not naturally inclined to do "boy stuff" like building robots....but also do what you can to encourage and help those that you can get interested in it! because they definitely can do technology. Ask my wife :)

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

My team has always had a small number of girls. This year we had 3, out of an 11 person team. We don't have any discrimination, we all hang out together, prank each other, etc. You don't "let them do a project all by themselves" because we all work on the same project. Guess 973 is lucky this way.

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

As a female on a FIRST team I must say my experience has been nothing but wonderful... because I made it that way.

FIRST, as I've seen it, has so many wonderful opportunities for young women. The problem is that they don't always want to reach for those opportunities. I will say that FIRST is maybe a place where the girls may face a greater challenge, but those sorts of challenges appear for everyone in different ways, and all that one can do is to try and overcome them.

I honestly came onto my robotics team for the business aspect, and would argue that you DON'T need to come on knowing what you're doing. I had no idea what a phillips head screwdriver was. I was there to make pretty fliers, and I still LOVE doing that. I also love that there are times when I come home and my mom is just like "don't you dare come into the house until I get everything covered because you are filthy." But I was there to learn, and I learned fast and I paid attention, and this year I was one of the core group of students who built our robot. Just like anyone, young man or woman new to the team, I had to not be afraid to ask questions. And yes, there were times when I looked ridiculous not knowing what something was, but that wasn't anything to do with me having ovaries or whatnot, it was just simply as a person who didn't know what they were doing.

Basically, I think the FIRST experience for young women is what you make of it. Yes, there will be guys who decide they have to supervise closely and then take over everything you do, but there are all sorts of girls who think that guys can't do certain things well, and that's the way our society will probably be for quite some time. My experience in FIRST has been nothing short of amazing, and I'm really excited to continue with it for the rest of my life.

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

With our team I am the only girl whos been trying for now 3 years to get girls to join the team.I tried to explain it to them that u dont have to work with the tools if u dont want to.also tried to tell them theres other things to do like tshirt designs and pins and website designing. Its not easy to get girls to join.Tried pictures and they ended up in little pieces in the trash and me getting laughed at it wasnt fun.next time everythings going to be laminated so it cant be ripped up.
Krista

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

While its always nice to have other girls on the team, sometimes it's worse to have people who don't want to be there. For awhile, on my team I was the only girl who showed up consistantly to every meeting. My senior year as captain, I made sure everyone knew when meetings were and tried to keep the group (boys and girls) on the same page. There was another girl who organized a smaller group of girls to compete at a lego competition. That was great, I got to connect with some of the girls and encourage them to stick it out for the FRC build season. Interest was sparked, but still on 2/4 of the trips I was the only girl to travel. Its hard, and it makes you want to go and force other girls to come and share this great experience you've been having... but other people have other priorities. The year after I graduated, our high school started an all-girls FRC team, which sort of evolved out of the all girls Lego team. Though the forming of the team had some controversy, the team is still competing 3 years later. I go back and help them, and just basically be friends with them, and tell them about college. I let one come visit me this past fall during their college search. I'm happy that they're into this competition and are liking it. I've had parents tell me I'm a great role model for their daughters, because I was a female leader. It's a great feeling to hear something that. I recently looked on facebook, because a lot of the girls I have mentored graduated this year... almost all of them are going to school as engineering and technology majors. I'm thrilled.

Krista, my advice to you is to not get hung up on these girls who don't respect you and rip up your pictures. Enjoy what you are doing, and maybe some girls will see what a great time your having, and the great things you are doing and will want to join the team.

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

Last year we had our first girl on the team in 3 years. At first everyone was really kind of unsure of how it would play out, but after the first week, she was showing us up for gosh sakes. She proved that she could definitely be a very strong addition to our team, and seeing that she was only a freshman, it really was amazing that she knew so much When we finally gave the whole "girl" scene a chance, it really paid off, and now everyone on the team is much more open to the female crowd, and having other female teammates. (Oh, BTW there are going to be around 10 MORE girls on the team for the 2008 season, but if they are like the girl we have now, they should fit right in with no problem.) :)

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

I think there is definitely a stigma on our team about girls, but it's getting better. A girl I know spent three years on the multimedia team (often where girls get pushed) and then her fourth as a machinist/safety captain. She had a pretty strong personality, and I think that other girls haven't had the guts to just stand up and say, "I want to do this!"
Bottom line: girls shouldn't have to work any harder to do what they want. That one's a fault of the guys and the attitudes. A lot of them are unintentional and subconscious. It is harder to accept a girl as "just one of the guys," so to speak.
On the other hand, there's a stigma amongst girls too. I really don't want to believe that girls are "naturally" disinclined toward science, technology, machining, or robots. However, I think if you did a survey, many more girls would call this kind of thing boring, stupid, uninteresting, or (in the case of manual work) dirty. Why is this? Society, women included, has decided that women don't like this kind of thing.
Until we stop talking about "woman engineers" they will always be a novelty. By that I mean that they can't be a spectacle, a statistic, or a quota. They need to do this because they want to, and we (as a whole, women and men) need to accept them because of their skills and enthusiasm, not their gender.

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

Personally I like having girls on the team. They help get things going more often than not... What I don't like is when they are wigging out because they got their hands dirty. :yikes: I am constantly AMAZED by what the girls can get done. I do not mean that in a way that girls are lower but I just haven't seen many do what the girls in FIRST do. I would like to thank all the girls who are on all the teams I have been on, 830, 1015, 1502, and 1549, and all the teams I have been up against or with. You all are the greatest people I have had the pleasure of meeting.

Back on topic though, I think they can do anything and everything they put their mind to. If they want to work on the robot, great, if they want to work on the field, great, if they want to just work with paper, great! It all helps.

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

When I joined the ÜberBots in the fall of 2005, there were three other girls on the team (of 24 students total). No one really discriminated against us. One of the girls worked a lot with the mechanical side of the robot, one was the head of spirit, one didn't spend a lot of time at robotics, and I was involved with team/physical organization. For competitions, I was a coach and one of them was a driver. That type of diversity in a small portion our team seemed to be proportional to what you would see if you sampled four other people from the whole team.

However, the female population on our team has grown. We have about 10-12 girls on a team of 35-40 this year, and a similar situation last year with slightly smaller numbers for each part. As I see more girls joining the team, I hear them saying things like "I can't help build the robot because I don't know anything about tools. I'm a girl, remember?" It's really disheartening to hear things like this.

At the same time, the one freshman girl on the team last year who did take a big part in the mechanical design of our robot was congratulated for what she did, since "not enough girls are involved in robotics and engineering fields". People commented on the fact that I am the team president this year because "we don't many women in leadership positions". This was upsetting to me, because it seems as if we only got special attention because we were girls.

In some sense, I feel as if the same kind of inherent prejudices against women are still an underlying factor in our judgment in Western society. Since women were once shunned from the kind of positions we can find ourselves in now, we haven't fully "gained our ground back", and are still more rare than men in the same type of positions. This smaller concentration is what causes girls to be singled out, often unfairly.

Re: Girls on FIRST teams
 

Ellen,
you may still be a part of the generation where women are lagging behind in the fields of science, engineering, and technology. What you say is true from one perspective. From another, the winds of change are forming because there are increasing numbers of girls on the robotics teams and increasing numbers of women entering into satisfying careers in these areas. In the broad scheme of things, FIRST is not very old and yet advancements in many areas are being achieved each year. In the next 5, 10, 15 years, it won't be like it is now. We're just not quite there yet but it is changing.

If you are unhappy with the fact that the attention comes only because you are girls, come up with a plan to re-direct that. Show the growth, the improvement, the advances being made in the areas of science, engineering, technology regarding the role of women. Talk about how FIRST is helping create that culture change so that girls don't have to be singled out for any reason other than they are successful members of a FIRST team.