College Level FIRST
 

Talking to some of the senior mentors, I joked(and hoped) that a college level FIRST would be made(after college though, I'm ready to just be a volunteer and a mentor-I'm just having too much fun being the driver, programmer, elelctronics, and etc. for my team.). They said how FIRST was thinking about it. If it is or if it was to happen, cool thought though to have schools like Texas Tech against MIT in the world of FIRST.:cool:Plus it would be a great way to create interest in students to go to certain colleges.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

While it would be fun just to be able to compete on a team, I would hope that FIRST would run it like many lego league competitions. Where the build season and competition would end before FRC Kickoff. Other wise teams myay lose some mentors.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

Freddy actually brought this idea up about a year ago. You may find some of the posts in this thread helpful

Re: College Level FIRST
 

It seems like a nice idea, but there is a robotics competition at the college level, only it's run by DARPA, not FIRST (the president of DARPA made a speech about the Grand and Urban Challenges during the elimination matches). While it isn't the same idea as the FIRST competitions, it looks like it employs many of the same principles alumni would have learned as team members. I know that one of our team's mentors participates in this, and he still frequently manages to help out the team, so the two events can coincide without a team losing too much mentor time.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

Or... you can put all your creative and thoughtful energies into mentoring and being involved with local FRC/FVC/FLL teams and help inspire those students. ;)

As the old quote goes, "All good things must come to an end." By the time you graduate, you must now realize that your role in FIRST is no longer to be the inspiree, but the inspirer. Help mentor a team. Get involved and volunteer. Start new FLL/FVC/FRC teams. Remember the 'glory days' of your high school years in FIRST, but don't try to relive them. You're in college now, and now it's your turn to give back to FIRST and inspire the next wave of FIRSTers.

After all, by the time you reach college level you should have already been inspired. :p

Re: College Level FIRST
 

Speaking of college level FIRST, Purdue University has Purdue FIRST Programs, one of the strongest college FIRST organizations. Not only do we mentor the three local FRC teams, but we run the FLL qualifying tournament and provide the backbone that allows the Boilermaker Regional to happen every year as well. The organization is completely student run. Some have FIRST experience, many do not, so we are still looking to inspire new students every year. We work with the students to help them learn as much as possible, but they do the work, it's their team and their robot, and that's how it should be.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I was my team's driver for two years, so I can sympathize with those seniors who are not quite ready to give up the controls. I was lucky enough to get two more chances to drive robots: one in MIT's 2.007 contest (formerly Prof. Flowers' 2.70), and one at the International Design Contest in Tokyo. But I can say that after three years of mentoring a FIRST team as a college student, I enjoy doing that much more than I enjoy designing/building/driving robots. It's a different experience, and it takes a while to realize your new role. (There are several great threads about this transition that you can read, but I'm too tired to find them right now.)

If you are still aching for the chance to compete, there's always DARPA, FSAE, Battlebots, RoboCup, AUVSI UAV, and the North American Solar Challenge, to name a few. Check your college's student club/team directory.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

How I miss driving the robot... How I miss driving the robot... How I miss driving the robot.

Heh... I was talking to my partner in crime, Ryan Damewood, about the good ol' days when we drove the robots between 2002-2005. We had dominating drive teams but only once did we have a robot that was capable of doing an immense amount of scoring (2005).

Yes, I live in the glory days. I tried coaching last year, but I'm not really cut out to be a coach I guess. I'm not pushy enough to strategize with other teams and students don't really take me seriously. It didn't help that my brother was a driver and I had to cut him because he wouldn't listen to me and tried to bicker with me at every chance he could.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I've said this before, as have many others, but college FIRST is a bad idea.

You're going to take college students who are mentoring FRC teams, or might be mentoring FRC teams away and give them their own competition. There is no advantage to this. The point of the competition is to inspire, and college students have already been inspired. If they have not, they probably won't take part in the competition anyways.

The only thing it'd be doing would be to let college students relive the glory days of driving robots.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

Yeah, you're pretty much right on the dot with that one. I would just like to drive the robot in a couple of matches. Heck, this year was the first time we did swerve drive and no one would let me even try to drive it around K-T... made me sad.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

Cory is 100% correct here. I agree having a college level FIRST would just let college kids relive their glory days.

However, I must say that FIRST drops the ball when it comes to college students. Does something magical happen that summer between senior year of high school and freshman year of college? OF COURSE NOT! You don't come back after that summer with the knowledge and experience of an adult engineer. I know my team (125) has exactly 1 adult mentor, and he is our faculty advisor from Northeastern university. Other than that its all college kids. We're not always sure what we're doing, and we're not always sure that we're doing the right thing and being ideal role models. College kids have a much different FIRST experience than any other level of FIRST participant.

I think college kids should start to look upward. There are A LOT of other competitions where its perfectly fine for a college level student to be the "driver" or participant, and this doesn't mean you need to stop mentoring FIRST high schoolers.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

When did anyone mention college students stop mentoring high school students? I believe it was stated that it would be nice to not have the two competitions coincide with FRC, only compliment. I certainly wouldn't stop mentoring 648... however, I am going to be stepping away from 648 more and moving into the FVC scene more...

On another note: Some people don't look forward to dealing with immature high school students that don't hardly listen to people of authority and/or higher experience levels. I know this is my major drawback of being a mentor of 648. However, it doesn't really deter me too much because I get more out of mentoring than I do not mentoring.. if that makes any sense at all.


EDIT: After reading Brandon's post a second time, I could have been totally mistaken. Please, tell me if I am.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I would really like to be able to continue designing robots for FIRST.
I'll be coming back to mentor my team next year, but while I'll offer design advise, and teach them about various topics, I can't design the robot for them. While there are other robotics competitions that are open to college students, I don't believe any of them will be able to replicate the experience I've had at FIRST.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I agree totally... I'll be helping with building a DARPA Urban Challenge vehicle over the summer, but that's definitely not going to reach the level of excitement I had when I was a student in FIRST. Besides, everything is autonomous, I like complete control. :D

Re: College Level FIRST
 

All of the AUVSI (IGVC , IARC , UAV and AUV) , Robocup , IEEE Regional Robotics Competitions, Firefighting, and NASA robotics competitions are all great opportunities. Although, the majority of these competitions can't hold a candle to FIRST's size, excitement and overall organization. These competitions have a long history with many challenging problems for students to solve. Robocup is great for computer science because the hardware does not change from year to year, many of the AUVSI competitions are very interesting for robotics fans because they are looking closer at the commercial needs of the robotics community.

AUVSI competitions

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I'll agree with you on that point. I have yet to find anything in college that compares to FIRST. It's hard to keep that level of excitement when you get into the college-level details of engineering. (A fault of the colleges more than anything else; their educational system is obsolete when compared to FIRST.) Let me stop before I begin to rant...

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I think you missed what i was saying...i was trying to point out that one can participate in other competitions AND still come back and mentor FIRST high schoolers.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

Okay, thanks. I had second guessed myself after reading your post again. That was the same point I just tried to make.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

The problem that I see with DARPA, is that it seems to be mostly focused on electronics and programing, which doesn't leave much room for a mechanical guy like me, and there are no arms, I like to build arms. :D

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I think College FIRST would be awesome, the level of difficulty would be higher, but their ideas could really make highschoolers gather strong ideas from there superiors other than the mentors.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I drove my teams robot for two years and yes those where the good old days. Back before bumpers and when robot would collide everyone could hear it. Anyways after I graduated from high school I became the coach. It was hard to pass on the driving but I got over it. Now I have been on the floor team for six years and I am graduating from college. This might not seem like a big deal but it will be if and when my job hunt takes me away from my team. If that happens I don't know what I am going to do. :yikes:

Re: College Level FIRST
 

If you want to continue with FIRST in college, I suggest you either:
Continue as a mentor at your current team.
Go to a College Sponsored team like Clarkson University (229)
Or build your own.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

My team interviewed regional coordinator Jim Beck and asked him about a College First. He hinted that they are in the process of making it. You can see the interview for yourself at youtube.com/mortorqtv in episode 4 almost halfway through.

I would love to continue participating in FIRST once I graduate high school. If FIRST does not offer a college level competition I am going to mentor a team and volunteer at a regional. I think FIRST at the college level could provide more role models for high school students and create more enthusiastic mentors. Not all engineering majors had the opportunity to participate in FIRST when they were in high school. All the different colleges in a university could work together to make one robot.

Being from Southern California, I would love for USC to get involved if the competition is taken to the next level. I'm already a huge Trojan fan. Fight On!

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I agree that College FIRST isn't necessarily the solution to letting college students/mentors a chance to "relive" their glory days, but what about at the off-season events? There are more than plenty of them throughout the world, so why not have one particular "Alumni Match" set aside, maybe during lunch or right after, that allows the college kids a crack at the controls? The truth is most college students and mentors never truly get to "try out" the robot during season, with drivers needing training and being at competition and such. This would give them the chance to be the one running the robot for once without the need to start a whole new competition that would potentially draw mentors away from FRC.

Just an idea...

:]

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I'm going to put in my 2c here. Actually, it's more like $7.50.

When I first heard of FIRST, I had been out of college and in the so-called "real world" for a year. So even if there was a College FIRST, it wasn't an option for me. Sure, FIRST existed when I was in high school (1993-1996), but it was so small back then and largely in New Hampshire, so being a high school student on Long Island, I had little chance of hearing about it. If I had, I certainly would have participated, although my parents likely would have protested the long, late nights during the build season.

I was interested in getting involved as a mentor, but I didn't end up finding a way to do so until a year later, when I broke my leg skiing. The person who was driving me to and from work every day explained that his son was on a rookie team. I mentioned that I was interested, and asked if they needed more engineers to help. When he said "yes," I jumped -- as much as I could do so with a broken leg ;) -- at the chance to join up. I remember ambling into my very first FIRST team meeting on crutches, hearing about what we had to do in six weeks, and thinking "my ($deity), these kids will never do that!" But they did! And so it goes, every year. I look forward to it every year, and at work I always make sure to publicize why I'm not at work for certain Thursdays and Fridays in March and April -- and to try to infect as many people as I can in my life with the FIRST bug.

Mentoring has been a great experience for me, and though I've had to change teams twice due to moving, I've always stuck with it. FIRST has been, unequivocally, the single most rewarding activity I have EVER had the pleasure of being a part of.

I'm a software guy. I've had my hands dirty in robot code several times. Heck, I've even spent some time on a drill press, but not as much. I love letting the students figure out how to do things, but there are times when I'd like to get involved with actually building the robot instead of just tightening a screw or two or writing a few lines of code here and there! I'd also love to learn the mechanical stuff so I don't feel like an idiot when I get near the robot chassis.

This year was frustrating (in a GOOD way!) for me in that we had a really awesome student writing our code... He inherently knew how to do EVERYthing. I think I wrote ONE switch/case statement block this year and that was it.

I love mentoring. I love going down to regionals and to Atlanta with my team. I love helping out other teams when I can. I don't love babysitting the few students on teams who will invariably not respect authority and do various things that are not very GP-ish. However, that is but a small fraction of the "job" of being a FIRST mentor, and is far outweighed by everything else I get from the program.

Would it be nice to have a college-level and/or adult-level FIRST-like competition? Sure. I'd join up in an instant, mainly because I didn't have the opportunity when I was in high school, and the kids have so much fun (while preparing for work and life) doing it. But if there were a college- or adult-level FIRST-like competiton, we might have fewer mentors for the high school FIRST teams. And quite frankly, I do not have nearly as much time as I would like to spend on FIRST as it is!

An adult-level competition is something I often dream about, but I understand that such is not my place in FIRST.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

I definitely agree that FIRST isn't meant to invade colleges with the idea of the college students competing. I think the whole point is to spark interest in the younger generations. Hopefully, by the time you are in college, you have had the opportunity (or many opportunities) to be involved and inspired through FIRST.
At this point you enter the mentor stage. We need college mentors: people who have (or have not) been through the program and can still bring ideas to the table, but instead of doing all the work themselves, get the chance to teach younger ones the skills you have acquired.
I don't know if it is true for all, but for me anyway, I learn and understand something better after I'm put in a position where I have to teach it to others. I think that this is what FIRST wanted. A succession of students, to mentors, to coaches, that will inevitably keep FIRST running at its best.:)

Re: College Level FIRST
 

Hey forgive me for being practical but...

you'd probably name it First College Competition... FCC... think its a little ambiguous, eh?

-q

Re: College Level FIRST
 

We did the exact thing last year at the beantown blitz....it made things very interesting.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

i think they should do it but change it a little bit make it much harder cut the biuld time by like a week have a harder game. you know raise the bar. this would help First become something that normal people at home would watch on tv as if it was a huge event like football possibly because it would be like the world series of robotics i guess you could say. i love to drive and all but i love the competition and the people you meet and people who share the same interests and to raising the challenge even more would make it so much more competitive and employ new creative ideas. But what they could do is focus the game on something thats is wrong with the world which many of them do but they need to have the drive First does.

Re: College Level FIRST
 

Let me speak on this...

If my school had a FIRST team I'm sure I would have taken a greater interest in school instead of taking the GED route and jumping into the working world so soon. I never even heard of FIRST till just last year and that was by accident.
Mind you I 'm not crying over the choices I've made, and all in all I think I've done alright.
Currently I'm working with some folks trying to get a robotics team together to help kids with parents in prison. Whats known as "at risk" kids. With over two million men and women currently locked up you'd be shocked at how many children there are at risk.
Give them something to be interested in at school and maybe keep them from making the same mistakes I did.
An adult or college level FIRST might be interesting for them that still want to play with the robots but FIRST is about the kids...about helping them to be the best adults they can be. To take away from that mission would be a major mistake even a Protronie like I might not be able to fix. :cool:

Okay I'll get off the soapbox now... :D

Re: College Level FIRST
 

There is another option that many of you are missing, if you want a college level FIRST program that works like FIRST, make it!

If you really want to make an FRC College Leauge, than you have to gather people and money and go and do it. We are graduates of not only High School but of FIRST itself, and one of the messages that is sent to us is: "With the proper resources, we can do anything"
We are the result of FIRST, we know what it takes, so we can make the size, excitement and organization happen!

If you want to design a FIRST-like competition for college students, lets get to making it. Contact some FIRST volunteers who are big contributors, gather lots of support. Make it another result of FIRST's power.