Chief Delphi - Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

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Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

is there anyone who can give me the names of the planing committee? thanks in advance

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjhobin (Post 624265)

is there anyone who can give me the names of the planing committee? thanks in advance

Like everyone on it?

You can email battlecry@wpi.edu, that will go to Ken and Brad who can help you. Or if its something simple, feel free to PM me or Chris.

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

My gut reaction to this change isn't good. I think it's going to change the game dynamics drastically. It places much more emphasis on defense and lifting. It cuts down on rack potential dramatically.
Teams are not going to try and score near their home zone anymore, instead, they'll try for the outer edges of the rack. If two allied teams are successful in placing keepers, then all they have to do is play defense the rest of the match. Large rows aren't going to build up because, well, you own two columns. As long as I keep you from getting any lifting points, or really doing anything effectively for that matter, I'll be in pretty good shape to win.

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogre (Post 624324)

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there. The change was put into place in order to make autonomous more important in the game (which I think we all can agree, it was not). Your strategy as far as getting two in autonomous is indeed interesting, but frankly, I don't see that happening. While I did not watch every match of this year's FRC season, nor did I do any statistical analysis on the game this year, I can say with much confidence that getting two keepers on in autonomous is a difficult task that was not completed very often at nationals, nor at the regional level this season. One would certainly say that doing this is hard to do. Should an alliance not be rewarded for this team work? I would also say that getting two keepers on adjacent rows is not an easy task to accomplish (think of the space issues).

I also don't see how this change will make lifting more prominent. Many times this season, I have seen alliances score literally nothing on the rack and still win the match through bonus points (my own team included). However, because the other alliance couldn't score more than 60 points on the rack, they lost. If an alliance with a good tube scorer with an autonomous can score on the rack, they are that much closer to beating a ramp robot with two "base-bots" on their team.

Quote:

The new autonomous rule created for BattleCry@WPI was made so they would not need to alter the scoring software, while still allowing for a bonus for autonomous.
On that note (the scoring software), I might as well ask here: Will Battlecry be using the FIRST "Week 2" algorithm designed for more variety than the Week 1 Algorithm, or will something different be used to account for attendance on Friday?

The plan is to use the system that BattleCry has used since it's inception, and not the "more different" algorithm that FIRST has used through this competition season. Because of that, one can expect a more traditional schedule than this year (i.e. no high, middle, low number team distribution).

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

I personally think that this change to autonomous adds a ton of value to the "scatter tubes on the rack and then ramp" strategy (basically the strategy that 177, 968 & 190 used to win the championship).

I expect that with more time to play with their bots, many teams will have added autonomous scoring ability. Strategically placing a few more rings after auto will ensure that the opposing alliance can't score enough with tubes to beat the 60 bonus points in this format. Ramps will be much more key to winning than they were under the "normal" Rack & Roll rules (and they were pretty important before).

I do not, however, agree with Ogre's assessment that this is a bad thing. It is just different. You may have to adjust your strategy, but that is the whole point of rule changes that have typically been made at Battlecry in the past.

In reality, the best winning strategy this year (scatter tubes, defend, then ramp) just gets more powerful, so it doesn't really change the game that much. You still need ramps, climbers, tube scorers & defenders.

Should be a fun event.

RAZ

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

I think the rule change is fine. In the regular season, I only saw a few instances with an alliance scoring 2 keepers, and none more than 2 spiders apart. One keeper limits an alliance to a 128 point row of seven, much more than enough to counteract a ramp. Sure there may be a few instances where this will limit an alliance signifigantly, but I'd estimate this will happen only 3-5 times in the entire competition. An alliance with two robots that can score autonomously on the corners consistantly and beat opponents to it would probably do very well even without this bonus

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

OK... Here's a logistical question. What happens if the robot that scores the keeper (lets say in the middle... this is most common) 's base is very near the rack. Could this prevent the ref from putting on the bonus tube on the bottom?

[CheesyASCIIart] (I'm getting good at this)

Code:



            O



           [O]                           where the [ ] is the keeper

       [---------]                       where the [----] is the base of the bot

_______[|---O----|]___________           where |] are the bumpers of the bot

                                         where _______________ is the floor

[/CheesyASCIIart]

So that the robot is blocking the bottom leg.

Jacob

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

As far as I know, our team is third on the "waiting list". I'm trying to plan the logistics of the event for our team, so I'm wondering how likely it is that we'll actually compete. Does anyone know whether it's probable or not?

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfgirl (Post 624503)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenStafford

I strongly recommend teams continue registering (at www.wpi.edu/+battlecry) until we get at least 6 reserve teams (54 total). In year's past we have almost always gone down to the 4th or 5th reserve team as others drop out.

Already, they've moved one team from the waitlist into the event, so as the current number three, you have a very good chance of getting in.

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Marra (Post 624517)

Already, they've moved one team from the waitlist into the event, so as the current number three, you have a very good chance of getting in.

Alright, thanks for letting me know. (That's certainly great to hear!)

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

I emailed the Planning Committee and I haven't hear any word yet.

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

Quote:

Originally Posted by whytheheckme

OK... Here's a logistical question. <snip> the robot is blocking the bottom leg.

Okay, here is another (less likely but totally possible) scenario. What if redbot and bluebot score on the same column? Which team gets the column? Yeah, not likely, but a programmer can dream, can't he?

Are the camera numbers going to be supplied, or do we have to play children's guessing games like at the Championship and Regionals?

I agree that this rule change makes autonomous more important. It somehow ruins the "purity" of the game by having a human "adjusting" the field between modes, but it is probably the best way to do it without major work. If it was built into the original game I'm sure a more "robotical" method would have been designed.

And to answer whytheheckme, you back up v-e-r-r-r-r-y carefully:) .

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger (Post 624572)

I agree that this rule change makes autonomous more important. It somehow ruins the "purity" of the game by having a human "adjusting" the field between modes, but it is probably the best way to do it without major work. If it was built into the original game I'm sure a more "robotical" method would have been designed.

This rule isn't that much different than the bonus tetras from scoring a vision tetra in autonomous in the Triple Play (2005) FRC game, as those tetras which were added onto the field by the field attendants just as the bonus tubes here would be. You don't need a more "robotical" method when you have field attendants/resetters standing around the field doing nothing during the match. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple Play (2005) Game Manual

<G10> If during the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD a VISION TETRA is STACKED on a GOAL located on the edge of the field, a bonus TETRA will be STACKED on the nearest corner GOAL in the alliance END ZONE. If during the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD a VISION TETRA is STACKED on the CENTER GOAL, a bonus TETRA will be placed on both corner GOALS in the alliance END ZONE. All bonus TETRAS will be STACKED on the GOALS by field attendants at the earliest safe opportunity after the end of the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD. Once the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD ends, all VISION TETRAS are treated and SCORED as regular TETRAS for the remainder of the match.

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

Another question for the Battlecry crew:

Will elim rounds alliance selections be done the same way as at past Battlecry events? (where the 3rd parter is a random draw rather than using the traditional draft method)?

thanks,

RAZ

Re: Announcing BattleCry@WPI 8!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 624633)

Keep an eye on the "Rules of Engagement" section of the website for the answer to this question...

Also, I'm sure there will be clarifications of the game change rule forthcoming in future SITuation REPorts (updates). Stay tuned, folks!