Re: What happened to the FIRST community I call my family?
 

I personally attribute this to the growing speed of Life. It's very rare for people to take the time to read a thread twice before posting, then think, then read over their own post before they respond. Much of the time, you feel strongly about something you read, and so you post out really fast to get your opinion out there. With the growth of what I've begun to call the "Right now, Right Here" age, when technology brings everything fast and how we want it, people have a tendency to respond on impulse.

So in short, I think that the issue of a lot of negative responses and ideas could be eliminated by everyone taking a step back, putting on some nice relaxing reggae or something, and slowing down the pace for a bit. By rushing to your response, you have a tendency to respond on gut reaction. True thought and progress comes best when you slow down and take your time, and fully think things through before posting and responding.

Re: What happened to the FIRST community I call my family?
 

Amen, brother.

I suspect there are quite a few who post without reading the thread at all. This leads to more noise, more frustration and less problem-solving in CD.

For suggesting to a poster: "Read The FIRST Manual" because the answer is in there in the clearest possible terms, I get negative reps - what's that about? (BTW, I had snipped the relevant sentence from the manual and put it in a prior post in the same thread).

I think there's some laziness involved and some need to post a statement here, whether it's accurate or not.

For those of us who do take the time to read all of a thread, consider whether making a new post is "value-added" and then take the time to write it carefully, these other sorts of posts are a major distraction.

Re: What happened to the FIRST community I call my family?
 

I'm surprised about this thread. I understand its significance and why it has appeared, but find it a growing pain with any organization of exponential growth.

This was a tough year for 1523. I cannot tell you all the equipment breakdowns we suffered this year. It amazes me that we made it as far as we did. But, as in industry, you have to recognize these issues and plan for the failures in terms of spare parts and possible plan 'B's.. No new designs are ever perfect and FIRST rolled out many changes this year with new radios, new sponsors, and a very challenging game.

If you had a robot that was competitive, and made the top 30 in a regional, congratulate yourselves. You succeeded.

If you had a robot that broke down, but we able to fix it for the next match, congratulate yourselves, you succeeded.

If you we in eliminations and your robot failed, congratulate yourselves, You made it farther than 90% of the other teams.

If you placed last in your regional, Congratulate yourselves, YOU made it farther than the millions of students that haven't been exposed to FIRST.

It's not the competitions that matter. Sure we spend countless hours getting ready for them and everyone wants to win, but we all win by showing up. If your robot can compete, that is the main goal. It doesn't matter if it is a 5 speed/ 7 motor shifter with anodized aluminum or a plywood box with KOP components. YOU ACHIEVED THE GOAL!

As the Cubs are famous for saying...Wait till next year!:o

Re: What happened to the FIRST community I call my family?
 

I would just like to add a thought here...
CD has traditionally welcomed new members. Oftentimes, the new members join up during the time around Kick Off and the beginning of build. It is ok for new people to be a part of this community and learn how to contribute in a positive manner. I would hope that they would be encouraged and helped in learning how to do this and I think the process, overall, works pretty well. We just have to remind ourselves to be nice and to be patient sometimes, as well.

I think there are several teams who have developed a 'how-to-post in CD' training session for the new members and I think that's a great idea.

Jane

Re: What happened to the FIRST community I call my family?
 

I don't think you can add the drillpress debacle into this mix. I believe that was an aberration that FIRST realized almost as soon as they released it. FIRST effectively forgot their own history.

The reason these industrial tools came into the team pits is because the facilities at the venues, in years past, were often 1) distant from the facility, 2) unable to accomodate the time constraints put on the teams by the FIRST match schedule, and 3) often undermanned for the number of work requests made by teams. Teams and sponsors both realized that in order to compete properly, they had to take more control of their repair cycles.

In 2001, I made my first trip to the Championship Event, and I thought we had a nice pit cart to work on our robot. That is until I saw the mobile toolshops brought down by Ford and GM that supported all the teams they sponsored. Teams and sponsors that were serious about competing made sure they had the tools necessary, within the time constraints given, to make it onto the field for every match.

As the years passed, more and more tools found their way into the pits. Although FIRST "hoped" that teams would act safely, they hadn't taken much control of that activity until just a few years ago. Even teams realized that the pit area was becoming unsafe, and you would frequently hear comments about it. FIRST began taking more serious control a few years back, and they have been trying to raise Safety Awareness each year by building upon what they previously have done. Now we have a Safety Award, teams get Safety tokens when observed, we have a Safety Video contest, etc.

FIRST also has been banning items from the pits to minimize the potential for injury. There is no grinding in the pits; every little spark that comes off during grinding is a very small pit of metal buring up. Not a good thing to be throwing into your neighbors pit area. There was no serious uproar when such items were banned previously. We, as a community, recognized the inherent lack of safety when grinding in the pits.

Drill presses on the other hand are not designed to remove metal by grinding and throwing it, but to push through an object in a more controlled action. Is it possible to "throw" drill press debris? Yes, of course you can, we have all seen it. But when used appropriately, a good machinist will be able to drill through a part and still control the shavings. This was the first problem with the decision, FIRST in its' ruling effectively insulted the fine engineers and machinists who are part of this organization.

The second part of the problem was that FIRST would allow teams to still use "hand" drills. This goes totally against machine shop safety and logic. It is much safer and more precise to clamp an object onto a stationary press for drilling, than to clamp the object onto a pit table and use a movable hand drill. FIRST's efforts to improve safety in the pits were counterproductive toward their own goals. Hence the very active CD thread.

The reason I view this as an aberration is because many posts in there are from folks who are less inclined to be so vehement in their criticism of FIRST. They are critical, when appropriate, but they post their critiques in a more thoughtful manner than some of the knee-jerk posts that wound up in that thread. These are long-time, well-respected members of the community, who saw a need to change a ruling quickly and acted thusly. FIRST to their credit recognized their own error and did make the change.

I do agree that there has been a change in the community this year, and I have been working on a post to put into the "Championships -- What to Improve" thread for a few days now. I will say that I was glad to see an apology to Team 1732; we all played the same game, and they finished on top. They deserved to be there, and no team should be made to feel as if they somehow "backed into First Place". It's disrespectful to the team, to the Championships as organized, and to the FIRST organization as a whole. Congratulations 1732, you played the game and finished on top -- Enjoy and Celebrate!

Re: What happened to the FIRST community I call my family?
 

Arefin,
Unfortunately FIRST today is NOT the FIRST you joined 6 years ago, and it is NOT the FIRST I joined 12 (ugh Im old) years ago. With growth comes change. No company that goes from 30 people to 1300 people in less than 10 years is going to be the same company. And you are right, the more teams there are, the fewer people that are going to always be "happy". Heck I can remember the day when there were probably 60 teams, and I could call Brian Farmer at FIRST and talk to him (as the electrical engineer on staff) directly and ask questions. While FIRST still answers the phone, all of that is done online now. Changes happen.

As for the issue with Chief Delphi. No offense to CD, but we NEVER refer any outsiders to this forum. While I feel it is an excellent resource for teams, great to dig through and search, and great to keep up on current issues, it is NOT a forum I expect outsiders to understand. Instead we refer them to the main FIRST site and our website (which also has forums, but they are all for ideas, not complaining).

We do make all of our team members sign up here... as 90% of the time, a question they stand in line to ask me can be answered here or in the rule book. It was also a HUGE help to read through the radio issue & banebots issue threads and have this community constructively figure out what was going on. It started with complaints, but evolved into solutions.

I have to think FIRST is listening with the number of changes and fixes they have made and with some of the responses in the team updates. There needs to be a place for people to hear eachother, to talk things out and to come up with solutions. I also like that someone said sometimes people just need to vent, to feel heard, and while it may not make this the friendliest place, it works, and it makes people feel better.

While FIRST isnt perfect, and I have to admit I had my moments this year, as did many, I think they are listening, and I think they are trying, and thats good enough for me to stick by it and keep believing in the ideals. Its just becoming more like real life, and maybe thats not a bad thing for our kids to learn.

Re: What happened to the FIRST community I call my family?
 

I feel that it was a domino effect this year. The complaining started immediately after the first week of regionals due to the match algorithm and then gained momentum.

When competition, pressure, time commitment, and large expenses overlap, it is natural for people to speak out, and sometimes we do it without thinking about who we are affecting...and gracious professionalism is lost or compromised.

Team 229 had to win the Long Island Regional or they would lose funding from a major sponsor. They were extremely classy in handling this situation, but how many other teams might be in the same situation? The impact of a match can be critical. Therefore, team members get upset because sponsors want results, and funding can depend on it.

As more teams have existed for more years, expectations increase, and the need to "Just Win Baby" increases. This is not a good thing, but again it is human nature. Everyone, as already stated needs to take a deep breath and think about why we all do this. If the answer is to win, then you need to take another deep breath and a huge step back.

We wouldn't be a part of FIRST if we didn't love it; and we will all continue to be a part of it... still competing and wanting to win, still mentoring and helping our students be the best they can be, still helping other teams grow and learn, and still helping one another by sharing on CD and in the pits...and still discussing critical issues in FIRST.

Re: What happened to the FIRST community I call my family?
 

Putting this kind of pressure on teams (win or die) certainly raises the anxiety level for the team members. I doubt the referees ever consider that a missed call can mean a team loses it's major sponsor. For teams in this situation, unfortunately, it's not just a game.

However, some teams do lose major sponsors yet continue to participate (Bomb Squad, for sure). A major sponsor that requires teams to win regionals or the Championship for continued support doesn't seem to "get FIRST". FIRST is not supposed to be "Just Win, Baby", but maybe that's just where it's going. I would hope that teams confronted with that kind of expectation from a sponsor would try to remind the sponsor what FIRST is really about.

Re: What happened to the FIRST community I call my family?
 

Thanks, Bill for the kind words and for your part in Team 365's showing new teams like ours the way. MOE’s Chairman’s Award is so befitting - Congrats!

Re: What happened to the FIRST community I call my family?
 

Thank you for the apology!