Standing Up During Competition...
 

At the last few competitions I have been to, we have had people whine and complain about us standing up during our own matches. We wouldn't be complaining if their team was standing in front of us to cheer on their own team. We would stand up as well if we wanted to see the match bad enough... I don't see what the big deal is... We were just supporting our team. As far as I know, the Bomb Squad has been standing up during their own matches for years. At nationals, we had gotten so many complaints because we were standing up, that I came back to the stands and my team was sitting down during a match. I was shocked. I kept looking around at them as if they had gone crazy.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this?

I noticed that there are a ton of teams who stand up during there matches. Did any of you receive complaints?

I'm just curious.

Thanks.

If there is already a thread about this... I'm sorry. :confused:

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

We generally stand up too, but at championships we didn't because it is hard enough to see the field even if everyone is sitting down sometimes (especially if someone taller than you is in front...). I personally like it when there is a special spot front and center for the playing teams to go to, because than you get to stand up to cheer and get a perfect view.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I understand that standing up to get a better view of the field is a good idea when your team is up. However most events have a place to stand around the field (i do believe this would be the spot to stand... only for the teams who are competiting that match) I believe this because many times I, or my scouting staff would be scouting matches and the team (s) in front of us would stand, making it very diffucult to properly rate teams that were on the field for that match.

Just remember that other people want to see that match as well.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Team 648 stands up everytime our team is up... we've never gotten complaints about it until Championships this year, when, ironically we were all standing up to go to lunch.

Kinda awkward, but we've gotten many complaints about people not being able to hear the announcer because we cheer too loud. I mean, seriously?

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

We've had some of the same difficulties in standing to support our team this past season. A ruling needs to be made by FIRST about standing during matches so that all teams will follow the same policy. There is nothing wrong in showing your team spirit and supporting the drivers. Since the beginning, teams have been allowed to do this and there is no reason why it should be changed now. In addition, FIRST projects the match onto a large screen above the field for those who cant see.

In the spirit of FIRST and gracious professionalism, I feel that teams telling others to sit down is rude and unappropriate. Teams should be able to stand and cheer because all have worked hard to build their robot and to even attend a competition.


-Lea

(and 648, please keep it down, you were a little loud.... hahaha:) )

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I don't know if it is rude or inappropriate. I mean, if you are sitting down all set to watch a match and someone stands up and you can't see, it seems fine to ask them to sit down so you can see (as long as you don't do it in a rude or inappropriate manner). I thought a good compromise at championships was standing up during the pre-match team announcements and then sitting down during the match. Then everyone can see AND you still support your team.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

In using "rude" and "inappropriate", I believe Lea was referring to the manner by which some people were using when telling teams to sit down. I feel that FIRST needs to make a rule to lessen the “battles” in the stands. Unfortunately, the teams who are requesting that others sit down are primarily rookies or those who are unfamiliar with how the competition operates.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Certainly everyone has their own opinions on this, and I won't argue with any of them, but here's what our team does to try to split the difference:

After the score for the match prior to ours is posted, we stand up. We clap, cheer, make all kinds of noise etc. as our team and the others are introduced, but when the match starts we sit down. We find this works very well, and we've received many heart-felt "thank yous" from people behind us (particularly people who are not associated with a team and are just there as spectators - these are the people who may not have enough interest to stand, or perhaps are a little older and for whom standing each match isn't really an option).

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Honestly, having FIRST make a "rule" about it isn't going to do any good. Note the "no saving seats" rule that isn't followed at events, which I have no major problem with as long as it's not 6+ huge empty rows saved by 1-2 people when their team is nowhere in site. But that's another debate.

But onto standing - this is a debate every year and I am in the middle on this one. We all want to cheer our teams on, and we deserve to do so. Afterall, there is a "spirit" award and there are many teams who just inherently have crazy spirit - many of them are known for this and it creates awesome atmosphere. Teams worked hard to build their robots and they want to show they're proud.

On the same token, there are compromises to standing during a whole match such as mentioned above - cheering during pre-match and post-match but sitting during match. I have seen more and more teams adopt this method and I really like it. This is especially considerate when a team is sitting across the entire width of a seating section or sitting up front... if they were to stand up, the entire section behind them must stand up to see. At championships, there's probably 500-1000 people behind you if you're anywhere in the lower half of seating.

Scouting has also become huge within FIRST. It does become quite difficult for scouters to do their job with obstructed views, even when they also try to stand and scout. There's been suggestions about providing "scout sections" up front to resolve this, but they too want to sit with their teams, and not all teams scout the same way.

Someone mentioned the big screens - we've all seen those, and the incessant zooming they do for some reason. I get very frustrated watching the big screen only to see a bumper or gripper for half the match.

I have seen students and adults both rudely yell at other teams to sit down, and I do not agree with that approach. Many times they don't wait to find out if they'll sit during the match. But I have also seen the rudeness of the standing team right back at them. Many times, the rudeness comes regardless if the other was polite or not.

You can also think about folks that are unable to stand during matches - such as grandparents, or even little kids who can't get taller by standing, etc. And they want to sit with their teams, so they aren't gonna go find special seating. Now if this were the case, then an asking member could politely say that they have this situation and to please sit down. But with some of the attitudes I've seen, that won't help either.

It's a sticky topic that has no right answer. Some of the solutions sound good, but it'll be a long shot to please everyone or have everyone follow it. I would propose that everyone tries to "stand pre-match, sit during match" method and see how it works. I think that is a fair compromise for both viewpoints, and there may be less arguments or frustration in the stands. I know the arguments start in reaction to something, but please always remember to be decent or polite whichever side you're on - we don't need the nasty.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I have to hop on and agree that there is no correct answer to this one. I know that I don't mind when other teams are up or something happens and they get up screaming for it, because to try to calm that type of excitement with the robots after everything seems illogical to me.

In the past two years, (though I did have many of these views when a student on ComBBAT) I have noticed that promoting that spirit can be infectious at a competition. I know that coming up with the "Oink! Oink! BOOM!" and screaming until I can't talk for the next week and half at competitions is probably the best thing I could have possibly contributed to this team. The students have a blast, the parents have a blast, random onlookers have a blast. Walking into a company with a presentation that they hear all the time asking for money is one thing, but walking in there with a Boom! (literally) wakes them up and makes them go "Wow, you really love this stuff!"

I think that building that spirit needs to be both in the community and at the competition, and because of that to make rules or to force teams to sit during their own match is rude. I do agree with stuff like what Dave said where in Georgia it's a nice compromise to get up before the match and then afterwards.

At the same time, I know that it's interesting what Budda was saying, because usually announcers will get into your cheering or the image you create with your team. I know there's something about listening to Andy Grady saying "Here comes the bacon" that warms all of our little hearts. Lol. The only thing I would suggest in regards to that is to be cautious with your timing, be loud, be proud, do it often, but try to fit it in to the blank spots. For example, I know on Einstein this past weekend there was a silent period for like at least 5 seconds and I just thought "Wait, this is too good to be true" and hopped up Oinking and the whole group and a bunch of teams near us joined in and from what I've heard the field crew got into it on Einstein and that's the type of effect you want to have, fill in the gaps, get everyone having fun when there are those awkward times. Just, timing is critical since things do go crazy and you can block people, but like 111 said, there are tons of times you can do it and then still cheer from your seats in a match and keep that energy up.

Finally, and probably most importantly, for regionals, why not ask your committee to try to do something like New Jersey where they have a dance/cheer pit so your team can go down there during matches or whenever to get everyone going? Often times regionals don't realize the benefits of little things like that, so I'd highly encourage you to get in touch with them.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Personally, our team compiles scouting databases at competitions. We scout every team, every match and make that information available to every team. If your team intends to stand through the match for every match out there, it would be polite to the other teams if you would sit near the back. Just because your team is on the field doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't get to see that match.

I love the way that Wildstand does it. Team spirt is evident, but they still take into consideration that everyone in the stands behind them wants to see the match as well. If your team does something surprising, obviously you're going to stand up. I don't think people would yell for that. But if a team stands up the whole match every match they're out there, I do ask them to sit down and remind them that they are blocking the view of every single person sitting behind them. So if you plan to stand every match you're out, please sit near the back so that the rest of the people at the competition can see too!

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I think part of this problem stems from the growth of FIRST and the growing number of "spectators" attending events. These spectators may not realize how much work went into building these robots and that the crazy environment is part of what makes FIRST special.

At a football game people can stand and cheer when a great play happens or at the beginning of a game, but standing through the whole game is typically discouraged. Cheering on the other handm, can be as loud as you want, whnever you want. I think we can apply a similar attitude to these events. Standing and cheering as your team is introduced is a great way to support your drivers and show your spirit. If your team/alliance does something great (eg creates a row of 6/7/8, gets a last second ramp ect..) you should be able to stand up and cheer. When the match scores are put up, people should be free to stand and shout as well.

Standing during an entire match can become a bit frustrating for those seated behind you especially as more and more unaffiliated spectators begin to attend the events.

If teams want to stand for the whole match, providing an area or section of the stands to do so may be a good compromise for events where this is possible.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I am not sure that I agree with your solution. It is unfair to tell teams that they must sit in the back (and have a poor view) simply because they wish to stand for a couple of minutes and show support for their team - especially since the majority of teams do stand. Vikesrock mentioned that seating could be reserved for teams that do stand - but it would probably be more beneficial to provide it for those who wish to remain seated.

I'm not sure that spectators are the main problem - for I have only heard requests for individuals to sit down on a team-to-team basis. Also, most spectators attend the event on Saturday where standing is not as prevalent (most teams do not make it into the finals, etc.). With this being said, visitors need to be informed of the “crazy environment” so that FIRST remains special for all of its participants.

I do not feel that these two events are correlated. A robotics match is only a few minutes whereas a football game is a few hours.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I must admit, I'm guilty of standing up some to cheer for our robot. At regionals, we might stand for a whole match, especially during the elimination rounds. At nationals, however, we usually keep to our seats (except for when our team name is announced). I've been asked a few times to sit down because I'm so excited about one score or another.

However, it's not nice to block anyone's view during the events (it makes it difficult to scout matches). It is important that we cheer for our respective teams, but we have to keep the view of the field open. Everyone enjoys the event more a little more if they can see what's going on, especially if they see a match-changing performance.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Here's another way to think of it....

If you stand during your whole match, that's a potential large group of teams behind you that can't see your robot perform. And that means they may not realize how good you are in the event they get to pick in alliance selections.. this is especially important for those stealth underdogs who are amazing but aren't of a well-known name or are suddenly much better than they were at a prior event....it's related to scouting, but there are many other team members in the stands that contribute to scouting discussions when the time comes..... just a different thought.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Team 537 stands for every match we are in, from when we are announced to the end of the match, and if it was exciting until the final score is posted. I understand the complaints of those behind us, as does our team, but it is simply a tradition, and providing that a FIRST official doesnt tell us to sit down, we will continue standing. We had 1 complaint about this in ohio, and the problem was worked out for one of us to move so all could see. In atlanta, however, with seating much more valuable, we had 2 complaints about our standing. The first came from a team who was in the same match as us, but still refused to stand up to watch...wouldnt you stand to support your team if you couldnt see...we even invited them to cheer with us, but they just sat as their mentor argued with ours. By the time they had finished the match was over, and to make matters worse on their side, they had lost. The other time was from a few individuals from another team sitting behind us.
Were sorry and you may definitely cheer with us, but, as mentioned, the field is hard to see when sitting down and we want to catch all the action. We would be standing in excitement even if we were sitting. The team in front of us also stood, and so we positioned our scouters to acommodate for the problem. With a little problem solving and compromise, things are alright and everyone can stand when they want to.
-Eric

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

team 2264 didnt have that problem. we only had 4 students at the regional and all of them got to be on the field :D

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

SPAM scouts every match, so I completely understand the problems involved with a blocked view from the teams standing in front of the scouting crew, but on the other hand, I am a criminal to this as well.

When watching a match, especially if it's SPAM, or one of our friends, I can't help but stand and watch...it can be easy to get pulled into the game.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Your team/alliance needs to know you support them. When they are up, stand, cheer, jump up and down! In other words show your spirit. If you happen to be behind them and need to see, go ahead, stand up. It doesn't bother me one bit if a team stands to cheer on there own team/alliance or for that matter any other team/alliance or exiting play on the field. What bothers me are the people that wait for the match score, then stand up and take an entire match to get their team out of their seats and out of the stands where ever that may be or the people that seem to think that randomly standing in the isles when a match is going on is OK. Out of GP, neither myself, my wife, my two sons will ever walk down in front of anyone, leave our seats or simply stand in the isles while a match is going on. If you need to leave your seat, wait until the match is done. If you are coming back, wait in the back or at the side of the bleachers until the match is over.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Cyber Blue stands during the pre-match and do any cheers that we feel like doing the announcements, but as soon as the match begins, we're all in our seats (unless for some reason the area behind us is completly empty, in which case we'll stand through-out). It's definitely the best way. We rarely get asked to sit down, and we still get to do all of the cheers that we want.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I think the answer is easy.

1st, who says that standing and cheering supports your team more than sitting and cheering during the match?

Like others have said, stand and cheer while your team is being introduced, and when the score is shown. Sit during the rest of the match so that the people behind you can see without standing. If your drivers are looking up and seeing if you are cheering during the match, they are looking at the wrong thing.

Our scouts (at least six of them) all have laptops and note sheets they are using, so they can't stand.

Those who say that unless FIRST tells them to sit, they will stand... Well...thats your choice. Just remember, all your considerations for other people reflect on their opinion of you.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

From a scouting standpoint, standing during matches becomes a major issue. During Friday and Saturday of the Championship, we sat near the top because that's where the electricity was that we needed to power our equipment, same in Vegas. We have politely waited for teams to sit down, or asked them to sit down if they are blocking the ENTIRE view of the field, and they usually politely agree.

I can understand standing and cheering when your team is announced before the match, when you make an accomplishment on the field, or at the end of the match, we do it too, but any time otherwise is usually inconsiderate to those behind you. In my book, standing and cheering throughout the match does not make you any more spirited than sitting and cheering.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

As a previous post mentioned, standing and showing spirit is tradition. I am disappointed that teams are being titled inconsiderate for showing their support. Individuals who are unhappy with teams that do stand - may also stand, or if unable – miss a match (it is only a couple of minutes). Scouts may relocate to places that provide better visibility of the field. Why now are teams beginning to question what has existed for years? Standing when your team is on the field has become an unwritten rule at competitions – and it should remain that way.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I cannot imagine how absolutely boring First would be if we all sat and watched each match. This is a sporting event.

I remember a very similar conversation at Purdue, where I went to college. You see, the "student section" and the band in the basketball arena was down near the floor in front of a lot of the 'Boosters'. The Boosters, by and large, older folks all, were upset that that the students didn't sit quietly and watch the game. They also complained that the band was too loud.

The faculty of the school ran a front page article in the school paper regarding what it meant to have school spirit. It talked about the camaraderie, the excitement, the adrenalin. Needless to say, their article didn't talk about sitting..... and it suggested that the boosters might be better off watching from home where they wouldn't be bothered by people who were really truly into the game.

We didn't hear much about it after that.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Count me one of the old fogeys, I guess. I agree with Don and others here who advocate standing to show support for your team only while doing so does not keep people behind you from seeing the match. I really cannot see two sides to this; blocking others' view is simply a blatant show of disrespect, in effect saying that your team has a better right to see what's going on than those whose views you block.

And Don observed correctly that by standing to block another group's view you are informing that group's opinion of yours. Several matches on Newton that my group missed seeing because we were behind team [nnn] have changed my opinion of that team -- I previously thought very highly of them.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

As one of the people that lead scouting for 234, it does bother me a little when people stand. It makes it hard to see the matches, especially which robot scores where. I am fine with standing in an exciting moment though! Everbody should be able to show their team pride when they score a whole spider or lift two robots 12".

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Most of the posts supporting standing during matches seem to ignore the fact that there are some people who really cannot stand up. I was shocked to read about the faculty at Purdue suggesting that the older “Boosters” stay home. If such a suggestion were EVER made to me by the higher-ups of an organization, I’d stay home all right—along with my “Booster” dollars. Any organization that treats its supporters with such gross disrespect doesn’t deserve any support.

Opinions aside, here are some facts:
--Many people can not stand up each time there is a match. They may be very old, they may be infirm, or they may temporarily be on crutches with a broken leg. At FIRST events, such people went to a lot of effort to travel to the event to watch it. At the Georgia Dome in particular, the size of the place will be daunting to such people. They will expend a good part of their strength just getting to their seats.

--People with physical infirmities often can’t help being that way.

--Even if you are healthy and fit today, you, too, may one day become infirm and weak.

--Years ago, the federal government enacted legislation commonly known as the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). One effect of this legislation was to counteract the idea that it is OK for society to ignore people with disabilities, telling them to just stay home, don’t work, don’t travel, don’t go out, they’re not worth any extra consideration. A person with a physical infirmity already has difficulties way beyond what a healthy person experiences. He or she doesn’t need others putting additional obstacles in the way.

--Unlike many of the aging venues in which FIRST competitions are held, the Georgia Dome was built after the ADA was in place. In the stands, the steps are at a shallow angle and handrails are provided to make it easier (and safer) for everyone to move about. (This also makes it harder to see the playing field when people in front are standing up.) Ramps and elevators are logically and conspicuously placed.

--Dean Kamen, founder of FIRST, has shown special concern for the disabled by inventing a wheelchair that can climb stairs. Its favorite feature for users: the ability to put them at eye level with others who are standing up.

--Dean Kamen’s parents, who are getting on in years, are staunch supporters of FIRST, and attend the Championship every year, despite their age.

Now I have some questions:
--Some teams have a “tradition” of standing for every match. Many teams do not. Is your team going to continue its tradition, even if it causes problems for other people? What if Dean Kamen's parents were sitting behind you, and didn't want to stand up? What if your team's top sponsor were sitting behind you, and unable to stand up?

--People can have their experience at an event marred by others’ inconsideration. But who will be hurt if your team sits down for most of its matches? (Yes, I know, if things really get exciting the emotions will take over. That’s OK—sometimes.)

--The most basic rule in FIRST is called “gracious professionalism.” If your team habitually offends other people, is your team being gracious?

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I've seen both sides of the issue, personally.

In 2004, my knees were in a lot of pain and I was fairly sick. I couldn't really stand for matches, and it was really irritating to sit behind teams that did. I've also tried scouting this year, and scouting behind people standing was almost a futile venture.

This year, 125 did stand for some of their matches, and it did create more excitement, even if it was a "placebo" effect.

There's also the issue of people navigating the isles during matches, which I consider to be rather rude.

With that said, standing teams should be in the back, and scouts should be in the front. People shouldn't walk into the stands in the middle of the match.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Team 188 takes our scouting pretty seriously. Unfortunately for our scouting team, prime seats for scouting are also usually prime seats for spectators. We try to make it out to the arena early and sit together in a location that will provide us with a view of the field even with the teams around us showing their support during the day. That, of course, is not always possible. I don't spend a whole lot of time in the stands, but when I am around to catch a few matches from the stands, the problem of standing spectators is usually solved by a polite requests or simply a slight shift in position by our scouts. It is a bit annoying to deal with, but any spectator sport will have cheering fans that obstruct your view.

As far as how our own team deals with showing our support, we try as best we can to avoiding obstructing the views of those behind us. Usually this involves heading down to field level as a team, and finding a spot where we can all sit, kneel, or stand to watch our match without providing everyone behind us with a view of the back of our jerseys. Looking back at our three regionals, this was probably easiest at the LA Regional where a "Team Viewing Area" was set up right at field level, but well below the overhead grandstands. It was a great idea that helped prevent this very problem. Although, space may be an issue at some regionals, perhaps working in a set-up like that will help prevent the problem of standing spectators in the stands.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Sometimes that does not help. At VCU this year, we were on the very back rows and as we usually do for our matches, stood up. Well the people behind us standing on the landing let us have it with verbal "sit down" assaults.

As usual, AmyPrib has some good ideas in her first post also.

Dave

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I've seen some ridiculous stuff go on at FIRST events with regards to seating.

I've seen people throw stuff to get the attention of people standing up 5 or 6 rows down so they sit down and the people behind them can see.

I've seen people who would rather walk through a seating isle with seated people then walk all the way up, and then get to their destination.

However, as far as standing up at a competition goes, I feel that it should be done at the discretion of the team. If you happen to be the at the back of the section and no other team behind you, stand up all you want. However, if you are in the middle of the section, perhaps standing throughout the entire 2 minutes is not such a good idea.

In recent events, team 1403 stands up to cheer during team introductions, but sits down before the match starts, allowing our neighboring FIRST teams to also view the match.

As far as scouting, 1403 does scout every match, but usually, our scouters are located in other locations, may it be on the top of the section, or a bit more off to the side. This way, they can get their job done without being disturbed by cheering teams.

I do not think FIRST should make a ruling about stand behavior. I feel the members of the FIRST community are mature and gracious enough to consider the best course of action depending on their situation. I only advise that teams and individuals in the future practice discretion.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

That's the way it should be. Unfortunately, we've seen too many responses in this thread alone along the lines of, "Well, we stand up and if you don't like it, you can lump it." OK, no one used those exact ungracious words, but you can see the attitude.

Folks, just like anything else going on with the game/event/venue, if we don't fix it ourselves, someone is going to step in to fix it for us. Let's be gracious professionals and curb our own desires and behaviors before FIRST is forced to make a new rule. Providing "standing sections" comes to mind, but there would still be complaints about that - I can see people complaining that either the standing section or the seated section placement is less than optimal.

I have no problem with teams standing to cheer for their introduction. Nor do I have a problem with everyone standing up when something incredibly exciting happens on the field - that happened on Einstein this year, and it happens in sporting events all over the world. You stand up when the quarterback throws the Hail Mary pass. But you don't stand through the whole game. Yes, I know 3 hours is different than 3 minutes, but the concept applies.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

everyone has spent a greuling 6 weeks building their robot, not to mention the time put in in the pre and post season, i see no reason why you cant stand to cheer your team. 125 has always stood to cheer on the team, and when i was on MORT it was the same way. Now 125 is considerably smaller(25-30) compared to MORT'S (70+), but either way i feel like you have the right to stand and cheer on your team. It's only 3 min at most every 45 min or so, i really dont think its that big of a deal. It is a choice every team has to make, but the teams that choose to not stand should not try and force their hand, they should not (attempt) make the teams that want to stand sit......

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Except that me sitting doesn't affect you. You standing affects me and the other people behind you. So I WILL attempt to ask you to sit during matches, and will even discuss it with your mentors and coaches. And if you still refuse to sit and block everyone behind you because you think that standing and cheering means more than sitting and cheering, then I, and I am sure a lot of people behind you, will consider you to be a rude and inconsiderate team.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Imagine entering the seating area at a Regional competition. No one is standing...there is little activity (expect for random cheering)...and everyone appears bored and uninterested.

This is how the event would appear if teams were not standing, dancing, and exhibiting noticeable spirit - for some think that this is "not gracious, unprofessional, and inconsiderate."

How is a team expected to obtain sponsors - when they see little enthusiasm in students and a lack of energy when traveling to the events? Standing and cheering for ones team is part of the FIRST experience and should remain.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Why do people keep equating to sitting in your seat during a match to boring and unexcited?!

Cheer, scream, do whatever...but why stand up and block people?

And, between matches, during dances, all other times, do whatever you want.

All we[i] are[am] asking is that during the actual time that gameplay is taking place on the field when everyone should be looking at the field anyway, be considerate and sit down so that people behind you can see without standing up.

That's it.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

HELLOOooo:yikes:
We at Team 88 TJ2 have been standing for 12 years. I dont see the problem. Did anyone ever go to the PATS, RED SOX or B's games and sit?????? Hope we can still stand when we are up:rolleyes: . We had a super time in GA. We will see some of you at the off season events in the North East.
Congratulations to TEAMS 190, 177, AND 987 from NEWTON and also TEAMS 233, 71 AND 179 for the great matches in the finals, see all sooooon.
TEAM 88 TJ2 and MOE

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Maybe at championships that's the case, but for regionals especially this year, where it was quite common to have 9-12 matches per team, it could be every 15minutes or less. And think about it, at regionals, if the majority of teams stood during their matches (with 6 at a time), there could be people sitting in places such that they'd end having to stand almost the entire day if they want to see the any match at all. i.e. In the first match, team A, B, C is standing, and they happen to be in front of me to the left, blocking my view. In the second match, team D, E, F is standing, and they happen to be in front of me also somewhere, and so on.... So when people say "it's only 3min you have to stand", that's assuming you're the only team that's blocking their view the entire day.......

Just something else to consider....

ps. When I looked around in GA, I would say the teams that stood during their entire match were in the minority. Many of them stood before/after. The place was just as hoppin'.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Just because you've been doing it for 12 years, doesn't make it right.

And yes, I've been to Lions, Tigers, Pistons, and Red Wings games. And, yes, for most of the time, I am considerate and sit so that the people behind me can see. Sure, as someone mentioned, if something really exciting happens, then I expect people to stand and cheer/boo for a second, but for the most part, people are sitting.

I've said my piece. I think it's rude and inconsiderate to stand for your entire match. Do as you wish, but think about what you do.

And past history really doesn't condone any actions. If we never changed anything because "that's the way it's always been done", then we would never progress as a society. In FIRST or otherwise...

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I think that this statement is quite misleading, if not false. From personal experience with one standing team at the Chesapeake Regional last year, standing (when repeatedly asked politely to sit down) can be seen by some sponsors as rude and inconsiderate. So standing can also hurt a team trying to get sponsors.

That said, REX was standing a great deal at Chesapeake this year, so I am not saying don't do it. Fortunately, we didn't get any complaints (that I know of) so I assume it was acceptable to others (probably due to the arrangement of the bleachers in the USNA).

My only opinion is that teams should be flexible in following GP: consider those around you and never impose your attitudes on the issue.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

FIRST events cannot truly be equated with sporting events because at sporting events (especially college) there are designated sections. Of course I would expect to stand in the student section, and mostly sit in the alumni/family section at a Purdue football or basketball game. There are understood, defined areas for such behavior.

However, there are (usually) only two teams at sporting events, and the area each cheering section takes can be rather spread out to allow for standing/sitting sections. At FIRST competitions, there are dozens of teams represented, and the audience is segmented by team affiliation rather than by cheering style.

In my eyes, the people most affected were those unable to stand. We want our grandmas to be proud, but then we stand in front of them and block their view. We want to share our excitement with our siblings, but there's no way a 10-year-old can see over a standing high schooler. We want to videotape the matches, but end up with footage of the back of people's heads. My wife was enjoying her Arni's personal pizza, but pizza's not really a stand-and-eat-it type of food, and you can imagine the view from that perspective.

FIRST was created in part to destroy common perceptions - nerds can't have fun, technology is boring, science and math have no real value, high schoolers are obnoxious and ill-mannered. Rudeness has no place in the world, and certainly not at a FIRST event.

Standing shows spirit, shows enthusiasm, shows support. But please be aware of your surroundings. The person whose view you are blocking may be a future alliance partner, an ailing grandparent, or a potential sponsor.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Karen,

I would never suggest that we should not show respect towards other people. However, I think that sort of thing goes both ways. Respect the students right to support their robot. First is about the students. Inspiring them. Telling them to sit down (*just my opinion, and no offense meant*) is neither supportive nor inspiring. While we love to have non-students attend the events and get excited, I think they need to realize this is about the students and the teams.

I have heard people (and I'll admit some on my team) complaining about teams that do team shouts - like the spirit shout (boy was that cool at Western Michigan - I've got Spirit, HOW BOUT YOU!) etc. I pointed out to them that if it's making you notice that other team, then it's working. If it's getting them pumped up, it's working. If it's adding to the generally insane atmosphere at the event, then it's working.

Perhaps a happy medium can be reached. Perhaps someone who has the concern with the people standing can request that First reserve the front row at regionals and nationals for 1 or 2 scouts per team and those who attend that may have trouble navigating the stands or standing up. It may not be ideal because they aren't with their team, but I think it would be much better than telling the teams to sit down.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

kborer22 is a mentor of 125, so you can go ahead and discuss it directly with him.



MILESTONE: 500th post

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I know standing for your team the entire match is fun.
I know how annoying it is to have someone in front of you stand the entire match.

But depending on which side you are placed on and what the vendor is like, everything changes. I know that at regionals (at least in hockey rinks), the stands are steeper and when you stand it often only blocks a couple of people/rows. Hockey rinks often have different sections as well, so you may be standing and there is no one behind you to block. Also, at the regionals I've been to their is normally a standing area for teams that are playing.
All this makes it a lot easier to stand without disrupting someone else's view.

At championships, the angle is not steep (at all). I had trouble seeing the field over the heads of people sitting down sometimes, and when people in front of me stood up it totally destroyed my view. More people are likely to be there randomly/to see their (grand)child's robot/to see the team they are sponsoring that made it that far. (ex., my grandparents and my parents were there!) There is NO special standing area for teams who are playing.
It is really easy to prevent a lot of people from seeing anything by standing up.

Both of these situations are at FIRST competitions, but they are totally different. Teams should adapt to each competition (in my opinion).

Also, remember that depending on the situation, although you may only stand for 3 minutes per hour, other teams are standing during the other time and may be disrupting the same people.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I've already stated that 648 prefers to stand up, but we don't always. ESPECIALLY if there's been a complaint or two, we don't get many though. (Infectious spirit, maybe?) That's where I'm staying. I've never had to ask a team to sit down before, but then again, I'm a very patient person.

WARNING: the following may not belong here.

Somewhat along these lines, but off-topic just a tad, I get really annoyed with the people that sit in the aisles designated for team travel between the stands and pits. ESPECIALLY at the hockey arenas, such as UIC Pavilion, where one small slip could end up meaning a broken ankle/leg in that space between the hockey wall and that final, bottom row. As happened in 2005, at StL. There were several teams that sat in high traffic areas in Chicago this year.


Just a bit of insight,

Jeremiah

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

:yikes: It does get very tiring standing up for a long time. but it does no good to complain.

It Atlanta I was the only person from the team there and had to stand for hour on end!:cool:

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

In Atlanta I stood up... and an adult threw something at me...

No joke.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Do you really think your team’s Drivers, Human Player, and Coach look up into the stands during a match to get inspiration to do a better job?

I can only answer for myself, but being a past driver and human player, and currently a coach, I can tell you that I never look into the stands during the duration of a match. Yes, I do look into the stands before a match starts and seeing my team standing has definitely boosted my confidence about a match. I also look to the stands after the match to see either my team standing and cheering because it is a clear victory or to see my team trying to calculate the score to determine if we won.

So I guess I agree, standing does show respect and gives your Drive Team a boost of confidence. But is it really necessary to do during the match… my opinion is no. Show respect to the other spectators trying to enjoy the matches. Teams form opinions about other teams not only on how their robot performs but also how teams act in the pits and stands, being positive or negative.

In addition to sitting during matches, I would like people to follow the same unwritten rule as hockey has; you don’t go to or leave your sits until there is a break. This would mean that people wouldn’t be walking up and down the aisles during matches.

I know our team gets tired of asking for teams in front of us to sit during matches. I am sure this could and has lead to teams being rude in how they ask teams to sit because of having to do it continuously.

I am sure the stands are designed the way they are for a reason…

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

We had this same complaint last year, and I'm sure we had it the year before that, and the year before that...

The best for both worlds is doing what some regionals do...add space between the field and the stands to allow cheering teams to see the action, while making the stands void of obstructions...and even that can still cause problems of viewing.

Unless you make it so all teams can't stand at all, you will not find a solution to this problem.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

We had that problem out of state. We didn't ever have a problem with it at peachtree but have had it occasionally at vcu and once at boilermaker in 05. Infact during peachtree, we stood throughout the entire playoffs. Since then, we have compromised and moved towards the back of the stands so we didn't annoy people that had problems with it at other regionals/champs.
I think that you should have the right to support your team during their matches. If the people want to scout that bad, they should either stand up or find another place for a short 2:15. There are only like 7 opportunities for the rest of the team to show their support for the robot, and most everyone wants to take advantage of it by standing up and going crazy for the bot.
Generally, when a team stands up in front of us, we stand up right behind them to see the match and cheer them on.
I would rather be up closer but since it doesn't sit well with some, we don't...

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Our team always stands when we are haveing a match. usually this is no problem. we often tell the teams behind us that we will stand durring our match, and when it is over we will sit again. This usually calms some nerves. If we end up standing in front of scouters, and they point this out to us (usually by frenzied yelling of "gah, can you sit? i gotta scout this!"), we move close togeather to give the scouters a line of vision.

We have been on the reciveing end also, were the team in front of us stands and blocks our veiw (and most importantly the veiw of our scouters). But is this a fiasco? no. the scouters sit at the end of a row so that they have more room to move thier heads around to get the best veiw of the feild. If the team in front of us seems to be taking up way more space than they need to, or if somones mascot is in our way (happened at nationals) we have one person politely ask them if they could move slightly so that we can scout. Never once has anyone said no to me when i have asked them to make a small accomedation.

It seems to me that the only time it becomes a big deal is if someone makes it one. we ran into this at nationals when someone came up to one of our mentors and asked her if she was familiar with the "no standing rule" at all events. she politly responded that she was unfamiliar with this rule and that if it was pointed out to her in offical documentation she would happily comply. we did not ever get a chance to see that rule pointed out to us...
It seems to me that the bigger a deal people make out of the standing (as in the bigger the fit they have) the less likely it is for teams to want to be compliant. And throwing a fit doesnt seem very FIRSTy to me. What i have found is that if the two parties (the standers and the sitters behind them) have a polite exchange, there is rarely a time where a solution cannot be worked out.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

In my opinion, I don't think it's very polite to stand during a match. It makes it difficult for scouts to see the field and see how good some robots are. Standing can sometimes rob the other robots on the field the chance to be noticed and be picked during alliance selections. Think of it this way: Team A goes into a match. Their robot is working very well, but has not yet had a chance to show its scoring ability. Team B goes into the same match along with Team A. Team B's member's stand up during the match to cheer and show spirit. Team C, which is in the stands scouting behind Team B, is seeded very high and will probably be selecting an alliance for the elimination matches. Team A compliments Team C very well, but Team C is not able to see how good they really are because their view is obstructed by Team B's members standing up.

Although it might not affect your team very much if you stand, you might very well affect 5 other teams in the process. There are plenty of ways to show team spirit without standing up in front of other teams. Remember, during a football game, people don't have to look down as far to see the action. During FRC, the fields are much closer to the base of the stands, making it very problematic if even a small obstacle is in front of you.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

As a FIRST participant for four years, It is difficult for me to believe that an individual (unless a scout) watches every match. As previously mentioned - the competition is a sporting event...and as in any sports related activity, fans stand to support their team – especially when something exciting happens. If you parallel this to a robotics competition, teams stand when excited. For some teams this may only be for a few seconds - however, for most it may be the entire match. At the Championship event, there are countless areas where scouts could relocate for better visibility.

Standing in moments of excitement is limitless in the real world. For example, in Congress when a speaker makes a moving speech, members stand. When the President makes a favorable point, individuals stand. At a football game, after a player makes a touchdown, fans stand (sometimes for minutes). Do you think that an individual sitting behind someone who is standing requests that the individual sit down?.....No.

Please provide examples. The only thing that I can think of is cheering...waving flags or other items would probably be labeled as "ungracious” as well.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

This is very untrue. This year we tried to be very dedicated to scouting and changed our location every day in search of a better view. The first day we had prime seats, almost bottom and center, but unfortunately we couldn't get those seats any other day. Otherwise, we were at the top, with the hopes of being able to see over everyone else (again, doesn't quite work at the Championship), and on Saturday, we were almost off of the field and at the top, running into the same situation. Some may not realize that if you are scouting with a laptop, you cannot stand up to look over those standing in front of you, when it is difficult to see even when they are sitting.

In the end, a team shouldn't have to go through extremes to try to see a match. Other teams should be courteous enough to realize that there are people behind them, and with only 6 or 7 matches, EVERY single match is vital to collect worthy scouting data.

Apparently, most have taken sides on this issue and a few have become offended by pleas to remain seated during the match. Again, I look at it like this, what difference does it make if you are standing and cheering during the whole match? Have you ever tried sitting and cheering during the match? Do you feel as if you are less spirited, or as if there is a loss of enthusiasm? If you didn't get a chance to stand, would you have gone "Oh man, if I was standing I would have been so much more spirited to my team and I guess I am going to have to sit and mope now!" I doubt it. A new twist to FIRST: a lesson in self-control to deal with. Try sitting and cheering for a few matches, just for the sake of everyone behind you.

How about this, if there was an actual rule about it, would you still stand and cheer? Probably not. You would think of better ways to show spirit according to the new ruling. Just because someone doesn't tell you to play in traffic doesn't mean that you should.

Hopefully FIRST will officially address this by next year with a fair solution. I'm sure we have better things to discuss than common courtesy.

-No L

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I see that you are extremely passionate about this topic, and I am not going to argue with the points that you have made. Although, I disagree with your comments, responding to each of them would be repetitive. With this being said, I am sorry that your team was unable to obtain optimal seating and as a result, were unable to collect the scouting information that you desired.

As far as a ruling - I feel that standing should be allowed because it contributes to the energy of the competition. Spirit (as it pertains to standing) has been an integral part of FIRST, as it visually depicts student and mentor enthusiasm. Although, cheering while sitting contributes to the audio…it lacks any evidence of visual excitement.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

What a great idea!
I will have to bring a bag of projectiles to Atlanta next year. :mad:

Eugene

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Just as a personal peeve of mine, there's little to no reason to hide behind the "spirit of what people define as gracious professionalism" as a catch-all for any actions that people view contribute to the competition but that others may have disagreements with. Just as you have pointed out that it could be construed as not being "GP" to politely ask a team to sit down, I could construe it as not being "GP" when I am asked by the same team to not sit in their section of seats that they have attempted to save. (Although that is an actual rule). I certainly would not take offense or question a team's "GP" if they were saving one or two seats just as a team shouldn't when they are asked to sit down by another team behind them. As sound and integral the concept of GP may be to FIRST, one runs into the danger of diluting what the message is supposed to be (not that I claim to be an expert on it, but I have a fairly good idea in mind that it wasn't designed to be applied to the practice of requesting other teams to sit down) when one uses it to hide behind issues that really are more banal than they appear to be.

On the actual topic of the thread, every regional that I have been a part of always has a section marked off in the very front so that teams may kneel and cheer or sometimes stand in close promixity at field level. This stops the issue of cheering and standing up entirely.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I'll come down on the side of the old fogeys as well, despite my age. Standing in front of other people and blocking their view isn't nice. I'm certain none of these teams supporting standing would even think about waving a 10' flag in the stands during their matches and blocking views that way, but they have little problem with blocking views by standing. The only difference is in the magnitude.

As others have said, there are many other people at these competitions, and it's very cavalier to simply assume they're all capable of standing or moving about to suit your whims. The disabled, elderly, physically infirm, and pregnant are all unlikely to be able to stand repeatedly or for long periods. Nor are they likely to move about every time a standing team sits in front of them. Ask yourself this:

Would you hesitate to hold a door for one of these people? Help them pick up something they dropped? Assist them up stairs if they asked?

Now, would you change your answer if you were headed to watch a match? More importantly, would you actively cut someone off at a door if you were headed to a match? Would you bump them in haste and cause them to drop things, then run off to see your team?

How about an easy one... Would you seat a team member's grandmother in a back row, and then have the entire team stand up in front of her? Or pick a seat in front of her and then stand up? Is there any good reason to treat someone else's grandmother differently?

I know they're all terribly unfair questions. I suppose it's unfortunate that it's a terribly unfair situation to begin with, but you might want to stop and consider just who it's unfair to.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

For anyone who listened to openning ceremonies at Nationals this year, it was once again highlighted that the "G" in "GP" is all about not following the ugly "win at all costs" mentality of some sporting events. Yes we want to win, and support our teams, but NOT "at any cost".

Standing en-mass throughout an entire match, with COMPLETE disregard to anyone behind you, is simply put, un-gracious. I don't care how you want to justify it... "we've always done it... they do it at football matches... the people behind can stand up too... we're just showing team spirit". It's just egotistical.

You're basically saying... "for the next 2 1/2 minutes, our participation is more important than yours". It's starting to sound like the "I'm drunk and can be as obnoxious as I like" aspect of many sporting events.

It's also just like the guy who parks his car in the handicapped spot to return his videos. "It's just for a minute...."

The other problem of maintaining the existing "standing" staus quo is that it starts adversely effecting other FIRST events. For example, at nationals I was trying to watch our Middle School FLL team compete. Anyone who has watched a FLL match knows that it's hard at the best of times because of the small scale. Even with a big screen you can not get a feel for the play.

When it came time for one of our matches, a group of 20 or so adults stood up about 5 rows in front of us and stayed standing for the entire match. They even held up placards to add another 4 feet to their height. Needless to say, we couldn't see a thing, even when we also stood up. When a badged FIRST offical (who's view was obstructed) went down and asked them to sit, they replied "no, our team's playing".

OK, let's look at this for a moment. There were 4 FLL tems playing on the field at that moment, so the parents in question felt that the other 3 sets of supporters didn't deserve to see their teams play. They also felt that the supporter behind them in the wheelchair also should have been able to stand up to see, and that the FIRST official should just mind her own business.

It's also interesting that at a coach's meeting the following day, we were told that the judges were observing all aspects of team dynamics and that poor team (and supporter) behavior on the playing field, in the pits and stands were all factored into awards. Ungracious support behaviour can clearly impact a team's ability to win an award that depends on GP.

FIRST doesn't have to make a rule against something for it to be wrong.
It's already outlawed because it's UN-GP.

ps:

If you first reaction to my post is "Get over it, we're going to keep standing up for the full match.", then you've just proved my point.

Phil.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Nearly every person in our team, when in the stands, is scouting a match. Our team is not very large, and it can be difficult for our members to see a match when several people are standing up in front of us. Sure, it is possible to relocate to a better position, but unfortunately, splitting up our team for one match would usually result in our team splitting up for the rest of the day. And odds are, the new spot that we find will be behind another team anyway, thus defeating the purpose of relocation.

Although many consider FRC a sporting event, it does not necessarily hold true to that idea. Sure, FRC is tons of fun and is great to watch, but there is a difference between wanting to watch a match and needing to watch a match. I (and my team as well) never stand during a match, but we do stand up and cheer when our team is announced and after the final score is announced. I can sympathize with the teams behind us that are scouting, so I will not block someone's view just so I can get a better look at our robot.

Cheering and chanting during a match is okay. However, you may do whatever you want as long as it is not during the match. I suppose that if winning the team spirit award is that important to a team during the competition, then I am afraid that that team has failed to identify things that are more important than winning an award. To me, it's more rewarding to know that I made someone else happy or to display GP, rather than winning an award at the expense of others.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

This isn't standing, it is simply sitting.
On Saturday afternoon in Atlanta, there were a couple of times when I was told to move at the top of the stands when I took a seat. I have a young spirit but oldish knees and they wanted to sit a spell. It proved a little harder to do than I had anticipated.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

In spite of many years of a rule to the contrary, seat saving is alive and well at FIRST events. Part of the problem is that the rule against seat saving is not well posted at the events, and the majority of the people in the stands have not read, nor do they care that much about, the rule on seat saving. Perhaps signs should be posted at every portal to enter the stands, so people can't say they have not seen the rule.

I am pretty much in the pits when my team is competing, coming up into the stands to see the team and robot perform for each match that lasts a little more than two minutes, and I get hassled pretty much every time I take a seat for that. Many seats are being saved and I come and go long before any of the missing people fill them.

I try to tell people I will only be there for the match, and will get up if someone comes. Most of the time I get eventual acceptance of my temporary presence, but sometimes not and I have to try for another seat. Getting hassled by people who are saving a row of empty seats is just as unpleasant as having a group stand up in front of you, blocking your view of the match that you have made the long walk up from the pits to see.

I am not one to instigate an international incident over the matter, but it would sure be nice if people in the stands would get the message on the issue and let people sit and watch matches, as FIRST says they are supposed to be able to. It would be nice if people standing, knowing full well that they are blocking the view of many others, showed a little common courtesy as well. I find the notion of someone arguing that they should be allowed to block the view of others, and calling them rude for complaining about it, just a little over the top.

Eugene

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I do understand some of your concerns. However, it was never stated that team’s stood for the purpose of winning an award. By mentioning this, you are challenging the overall integrity of teams (when most have been extremely productive in spreading awareness, aiding others – and engaging in other positive efforts).

In no way am I call titling those who are suggesting that teams sit down as "rude." - Each person is entitled to their opinion. However, as I have previous stated, standing is a visual depiction of excitement (as it pertains to the competition) and support for ones team, its drivers, and FIRST in general. Rudely prompting that a team do sit down - by means of throwing, yelling, using vulgar language, or engaging in inappropriate arguments with mentors and students --- all who are extremely excited is not gracious. By doing this - members become upset and frustrated…decreasing the overall enthusiasm and energy of the event that teams have worked so hard to attend.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Cheer: To shout approval, encouragement or congratulation; applaud
Spirited: To impart courage, animation or determination; to inspire
From The American Heritage Dictionary, 2nd Edition

In my opinion, team spirit can be shown in many inspiring ways; standing & blocking other's view of matches is not one of them. Standing as a "visual depiction of excitement" seems unnecessary; I've stood in a lot of lines and excitement was never depicted.

Courteous: Similar to polite but implies a more voluntary, generous consideration which is of a helpful nature
From The American Heritage Dictionary, 2nd Edition

It is hoped that all spectators and FIRST participants strife to be courteous, both when considering standing in front of others or in freeing up unused seats. I personally remind our team and anyone blocking the view during matches to sit. I've never needed to ask a whole team to consider this, usually it is a few spectators who are restless and doing anything but actually watching a match. Permitting others to see what they are at an event to view seems a basic courtesy. Standing when your team or a match score is announced, but not during the match itself, seems a reasonable compromise.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I think there are conflicting principles at work here. The inconvenience of not seeing a 2:15 match versus the desire to express enthusiasm for/inspiration by their team during the short 2:15 that they are on the field. I think FIRST is mainly about inspiring teenage kids to participate in science and technology not about the mentor/sponsor/chaperone spectator experience, though that can be pretty good too. I have experienced the frustration of missing part of a match I was scouting because my view was blocked, but in the big picture I think letting the team in front of me express their enthusiasm is more important to FIRST than my knowing how many tubes team XYZ placed on the rack. The excitement of the matches at the events that makes teams stand and shout encourages me that the program is working:). I think specific rules discouraging simple displays of enthusiasm, for example requiring spectators to sit and be quiet during matches (isn't it also rude when you can't hear the announcer over the cheering) should be eschewed.

Perhaps the event organizers should experiment with a separate scouting/no standing section for those who are unable or unwilling to stand during a match.

Just my $.02.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

A few years ago, there was a huge hub-bub over FIRST banning noise-making devices from events. Teams despaired of ever being able to express their enormous amounts of spirit without shaker sticks to bang on stands, deafening their neighbors and damaging the venue. Amazingly, FIRST has been largely noisemaker free since 2004 and yet teams still manage to express their enthusiasm somehow. I have to think that students would manage to still be enthused without standing in front of people or forcing more courteous teams into a no-standing ghetto.

Speaking of... I think the non-standing population rather outweighs the standing population at most every event I've seen. Why, then, does the standing population get to dictate where everyone else can sit?

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Our team stands up during matches. Allthough we probably havnt had such a problem, since we are from Hawaii anhd we are all generally shorter then everyone. So we never really had the problem of everyone shouting at us...they just looked right over us :P.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Just to add to what I had said earlier on in this topic.

A lot of people are mentioning cheering and such throughout the 2:15 of the game. How many people have actually been in the drivers box and tried to hear people chant. I know I have been in there and the only time you can actually here them (unless at a small event) is before the match starts. After the start of the match the music/Announcer are loud enough that the drivers normally can not hear cheering.

Now don't get me wrong i love people who cheer, because its part of FIRST.

But think about it this way.

If your team in on the field, and you are standing to cheer for them through out the entire match. During that match your robot does something so incredible that it would warrant the #1 pick at the regional/Championship.

However the #1 seeded teams scouting team is seated behind you and because of you standing can not see what your robot does, they can only see what is on the screen (we all know the camera crew isn't that good about watching what is going on rather than zooming in so close on something that you can see if there is a slight difference in paint layers.)

Now because of this the #1 seed picks another team, then you are picked later... only to be beat by the #1 seed who would have picked your team had they known what you did that match.

This could all be solved if you:

stand for the announcing of the teams, then cheer while sitting down so that everyone can see, the stand after the end of the match.

This makes sure that everyone can see the match, that cheering is still going on, and scouting teams can still do there job.

Just another thought by me.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

This does not hold true for the events that I have attended. Most of the individuals who stand are FIRST participants who worked extremely hard to compete. If the spectators complain…it may be because they are unfamiliar with how the competition operates.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Maybe they'd become familiar with how the competition operates if they could see it? :rolleyes:

C'mon, coreyk -- you are part of a Hall of Fame team with a long tradition of promoting the goals of FIRST. You should know, without the old fogeys on CD having to remind you, that those goals are not served by displaying your own enthusiasm while preventing others from seeing the event.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

In regional competitions I have gone to in my 3 years to I would say 95%(ok, maybe an exageration, but the vast majority) of people stood up while there robot was up to play. I agree at any given time, there are more people sitting than standing, but, that doesn't mean that most people don't stand.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I'm afraid I'm with Corey on this one. I get at least as much kick out of watching the kids at competition as I do watching the bots. In my observation the kids who are participants (i.e. helped build/design a bot) get pretty excited when their team is playing and are likely to be standing--not every team, but most teams. In a typical match only a few teams are standing (i.e. match participants), but throughout the day most of the kids get excited at some point and stand. Just like members of a high school basketball team.

IMHO the difference between this and most other spectator events is that the bulk of the participants are in the stands and not on the field. The kid who wired the robot or programmed the controls is as much of a participant as the driver and in my opinion has earned your forbearance for 2:15 if she stands to watch her creation perform. I believe FIRST cherishes her joy in participation in science and technology. This is the distinction that tempers my annoyance about having my view obstructed by the team that is playing. It's just like sitting behind the bench at a basketball game. I agree that it is unfortunate that the nature of the competition and the venues does not permit most of the team members to be on the sidelines of the field where they are not obstructing the view of nonparticipants, but I think letting the kids stand and cheer is a tradition in many competitions and in most competitions team members on the sidelines are not required to sit thoughout the game.

BTW my brother in law and sister in law (previously unfamiliar with FIRST and my benchmark for what outsiders think) thought it was "priceless" the way it was at MWR.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I've read and given thought to everyone's post in this thread, yet I've found no particular evidence to sway my line of thinking.

IMHO, many of the posts on this thread are close-minded and frankly, hate to say it, ungracious. Stating outright that people standing up are being unsportsmanlike or un-GP because they're expressing their excitement and joy for competing in such a respectable program in concerning to me. Neg-rep me if you want, I don't care. It's just my opinion and unless I see enough evidence to sway my position, then it probably won't change.

You mean the intense cheer-off between 648 and 1710 nearly the entire weekend? Or 107 and 648 cheering for each other during matches, even when they played against each other?

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Ha, apologies if my posts may have come across that way. Personally, I do not find it "bad" to stand up in a match, merely (potentially) inconvenient for other teams behind you. I am sure that every participant at the event has put a lot of work into their robot, and I suppose that different people have different ways to show for it. I guess it's a personal choice, more than anything.

To me, the GP thing to do is to let everyone see and enjoy the product of your hard work. I enjoy watching every other robot participate as much as my own, no matter how *spectacular* or *cool* certain ones may be. I appreciate everyone's efforts equally, but when I don't have a chance to see some robots in action, it can get a little frustrating when you don't have the opportunity to see your friends or other teams participate.

Once again, I apologize if my posts may have appeared to be ungracious or impolite.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

OK, so you clearly see that this particular aspect of your team's behavior is upsetting to others, and a REAL cause for REDUCED enthusiasm. You explain quite clearly that some normally reasonable people on both sides are transformed into vulgar individuals. It probably doesn't happen right away, but after several matches of no-compromise the enevitable happens.... tempers flair.

It's possible that you could convince each one of those "sitting" spectators that they don't really need to see that match.... but be prepared for those same people to stop coming to events because they lose interest in seeing sets of backsides during EVERY match (that's what will happen if every team stands during their match). Those people are parents, coaches, SPONSORS, and young kides getting ready to enter highschool. Is that really what you want?

Think hard now... isn't there something simple that you could do as a team to stop this escalation? Something that would show how you are aware of the situation, and willing to go the extra mile to improve the enjoyment of the many, vs. that of the few?

You may not be convinced, and you may not see a compelling reason to compromise (let the "others" do it). But wait.... isn't that the whole point?
Doing something that you don't have to.... but that will clearly benefit others?

It won't cost you matches or points, or awards or medals.... Teams don't win spirit awards because they stand up during matches. They win them because they have an identity and work as a group. Standing as a group during matches was a result of that unity... but teams should not be defined by it.

Some things work will when only one team does it, but if everyone does it then you have a problem. Here's the classic example. A fire alarm goes off in a crowded cinema, if one person gets up and makes a mad dash for the door while everyone else is calmly walking out, then the mad dash person has a great chance of getting out alive. However, if everyone makes a mad dash, then probably noone will get out.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

I think that Steve W. may have said it best a couple of years ago on a somewhat similar thread...

"I will make a post as one from a team that is just "getting it". First let me say that the teams that have posted above, do not cheer because they have to. I have become friends with many over my 4 years in FIRST. They cheer because of what's inside. A genuine love of FIRST and a real spirit of good will toward others. I have talked with a lot of the individuals and believe it or not they ARE contagious. The spirit does infect all that they come in contact with. Our team over the past season has changed from one that I could not move calling from the floor with a mic to one that was on the field leading cheers at SoCal. What a difference in the team spirit and attitude. I sure hope that it continues next year.

As an announcer I can tell you that there is nothing worse than a quiet field. It actually draws energy from everything. Where there is spirit, there is energy. I am a little selfish I know but as a 50+ person I need the teams to give out energy so that I can take it and do my job better. I love FIRST and all of those involved. I love the untapped energy that is running free at all FIRST events. This needs to continue. Don't become doorstops and just sit there. Stand up and cheer for yourselves and others. That is FIRST, don't change it."

Standing up and cheering generates the energy, and excitement that we all know and love about FIRST. Without this, there is still the experience, but with it there is so much more. More people can learn to appreciate it right away when it is fun, exciting and loud. It's not just about cheering for yourselves. If you don't get picked you don't retreat into a little corner and wait until awards, you cheer for the teams that are down there making their dreams come true! And you feel just as good about it as if your own team were down there! That's what it's about. I can understand that it may be frustrating to want to sit down and watch, but if you are able, why aren't you standing too? No, that is not an attack, I just wish everyone could be equally excited.

Maybe it would be more possible to have a section for the people who want to sit and enjoy. Maybe the first few rows or so reserved for "special guests and those who would like to sit and enjoy without obstruction" that way the teams can cheer and be excited, along with those involved parents, while those who need some time of "relaxation" (whatever that is:yikes:) for a few moments can do so near the front without the risk of your view being obstructed. Just my thoughts...

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

That's a good way of doing it. But sometimes when one person stands up, everyone else has to stand to see. And when you really want to see the match, but have been standing up all day and are about to fall asleep, it's rather annoying.

Re: Standing Up During Competition...
 

Last year we traveled to Phoenix, Arizona and i believe they had the best area for your team to stand and cheer.

This year it has changed and it is hard to not be in the way of other teams.

Cyberblue stood up while being announced then sat down to do scouting of other teams and when we scored we cheered. Also if you know your team is a cheering type of team then when looking for seats try to get in a area where you won't bother the teams that sit.

As someone said up at top, stand in the cheering area near the playing field but that is hard to do if you visits competition sites that do not allow you to stand a foot away from the field.

See I am lucky, i did video during competition and i stood up during our matches to tap but had no problem with complaints but then again I probably didn't make a difference since I'm only 4'8..

I have no solution to solving this standing problem unless you sit by a team that does not care to seeing the field but that would be one in a bagillion chance:D