Re: Mentors level of power
 

At 1540 we have a strict rule that mentors do none of the work on the robot in any way. The mentors are there mainly to steer us away from really bad ideas, and to be able to answer questions that might arise. We have student "managers" of each department (software, fabrication, design, control systems, etc...) who organize all of the other students. The managers also spend their time during the off season training new members.

I think the biggest effect of being a student built team is that there is no safety line. If we are really far from finishing 5 weeks into the build season the students have to put in the time to get things done. While this could lead to a disaster, it really makes the students step up because it is our project.

My personal view is that in a perfect world all teams would be student built, but its hard for many teams to be student built. Having a team that is somewhat built by mentors isn't bad, and its certainly better than no team at all. But I think that students learn more when its them doing all the work.

Re: Mentors level of power
 

Yes I have seen student build robots that have a tough time competing year after year. But I have been involved in a student built/run team for 4 years, a team that has been successful for 7 years in FIRST. Mentors don't touch the bot, and this is the first year we let them touch the software a bit, and we have been very successful on and off the field (chairmans, 2 EI's, multiple other awards, missed the eliminations only 3/13 times). So yes teams that are student run can be just as successful as mentor driven teams, but I agree that it is less frequent.

/On Topic
But after all that we do have one main engineering mentor, who I view as the perfect mentor, he is a retired electrical engineer who helps guides us during the design process and has been with us for all 7 years. He lets us make our own mistakes, he is only there maybe 1/3 of the time, so we never get into a situation where we rely on his information. He helps us when we ask him, never enforcing his opinion over ours.

/Off Topic
I am really interested to know how other teams work, because I really I believe strongly in having the students as the “a new kind of hero.” Letting the mentors to guide the students, I still strongly believe this is a High School Robotics Competition....

Re: Mentors level of power
 

We are proud to have a student run team. We have one main mentor, who due to family obligations is unable to be there every day during the build season. In fact, I would say he is only there for about 15 days out of the build season. He handles all of the paperwork between to team and FIRST, which we are very grateful for, but he even says he enjoys watching us learn from each other and our mistakes rather than to do any work on the robot himself.

We also have Stanford mentors, but instead of giving us a lot of help during the build season, they run and offseason competition where we build mini robots for vex sized game, but with FRC parts so we give the freshman training. They rarely come during the build season, they are grad students though so they have bigger things to do.

I will say one thing though, if you plan on going with a student run and built team, do not expect to instantly be on the same level as those teams with engineers actively involved with the robot. I have heard rumors of our team being called "114 park" back in the day when we couldn't construct a reliable drive train and sat on the field most matches doing nothing. But these past 4 years have been in my mind a turning point for the team. Our technical knowledge has expanded greatly, mostly past down to us from previous years students. IMO our robots have become better and better, and being on the team for the past 4 years it has been amazing watching the team transform from a random group of students into a well organized robotics team. It may take time, but I find it rewarding knowing that a machine I spent 55 hours a week on is performing on almost the same level as that of professional engineers.

Just my $0.02, maybe more like $0.03 :p

Mike C.

Re: Mentors level of power
 

Well Said.

Also, from what I've seen from your recent drivetrains (05 and on) it's hard to imagine a time when your robot didn't move.

Re: Mentors level of power
 

We have a few pretty involved mentors, however the "level of power" they hold is kind of varied.

For instance, one of our manufacturing mentors can say something and although some of the build team might question why, chances are we'll do it. And he usually gives us a clear, logical answer.

However, in another case, one of our other mentors could say something (usually questioning the strength of something or the layout of something), and most of the build team would ignore or mentally write him off (either because the question was redundant or illogical, etc, and I'd like to think that it's not without reason).

Altogether, though, most of the stuff is designed and built by students, with some mentor intervention on what type of bolt to use (and why!), or why not to mill with the drilling chuck, or a design idea (that might not even make it onto the design/robot).

So, mentor power? I'd say, as a percentage, 30-40%. But that's just enough.

Re: Mentors level of power
 

Our mentors are truly spectacular people.
From the start, they comment on our brainstorming ideas and suggest some of their own. They are great at asking questions that push us in different directions.

However, they always make sure that we remain a student-driven team. They are there for help, when we need it, but they are not there to personally design, and build the robot. They set high standards for us, which helps us to be a better team, overall. They oftentimes keep us on task and help us prepare for our future.

They are an essential element to our team. Without them, we wouldn't be quite as motivated as we are, and we would never achieve the things that we have, because we don't have the experience that is needed to analyze our performance and design.

They provide examples of what we could be. They are real people, real engineers, that inspire us to strive to be the best that we can be, both individually and as a team.

Mentors are truly amazing people, who humble themselves and respect the students. They are honorable people, and deserve appreciation, especially considering all the time that they dedicate to helping us, neglecting to spend as much time with their own families and their own jobs. We owe a lot of thank yous to them. They are helping us get to a position, where we will be capable of going to college, prepared to be not just engineers (or whatever we want to be), but prepared to interact with other people in a professional manner that positively reflects who we are.

And on top of all of that, they have the patience to teach us valuable information, but let us figure out how to do it. It creates a wonderful learning environment, and I can honestly say, that though I've been a part of this team for barely a year, I have already learned more here, than any classroom has been able to teach.

Re: Mentors level of power
 

This is the attitude I was trying to get across. It is team work, partnership that makes a successful team. It is respecting each other.

Re: Mentors level of power
 

Wildstang has a rich and varied mentor group. Our program is a class and as such students must register for the class and recieve a grade. Mentors working with teachers will lead classes in the fall session to instruct the students on various topics including introductory electrical design and tool use, mechanical advantage with physics analysis, software concepts and design, and all students must complete a safety course and exam to be able to use any tools. Our team has found that working side by side, students and mentors, produces the best match and the greatest impact on students. After kickoff, we meet in small and large groups to strategize and brainstorm with everyone having an equal voice including parents. Although mentors choose team leaders, the leads have the responsibility to keep their group on task and make a verbal report at the general team meeeting each week. All sub team members work closely with their mentor(s) throughout the season with the intent of learning more about robot function and maintenance as well as modification. Those teams not involved in direct contact with the robot will still work closely with the mentors of other subteams, i.e. strategy, scouting, team spirit and promotions.