Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

dave-- Since you seem to be the visible spokesperson for the Game Committee, can I ask how the GDC figure out The Game and the general schedule of putting it together? Do you all sit around one lazy summer afternoon and say let’s do X-Y-Z, then type up a quick 150 pages of rules and call it a day? Everybody comes with their own favorite game idea and you arm-wrestle for the winner? Everybody procrastinates until Christmas then work 24/7 to the day before Kickoff? (Actually, I don’t think any of these are really possible, but ya never know!)

How far do you go testing the game? A secret crew builds a couple of robots? (I can imagine how secret that must be!) I hear stories of planning next year’s game before the Kickoff of this year’s game. I realize with the thousands of teens trying to find that one loophole I appreciate all the rules you have to go thru to make sure everything is covered. I’m amazed how you come up with a different game each year.

I don’t want any secrets of Next Year’s Game. I hear there’s some big party sometime after New Years that kicks off the build season, and I can wait. If it helps, use “Rack and Roll”’s or another previous game schedule to explain. Thanks.

Roger.

PS: Regarding this:

Based on personal experience, “Be able to explain the game to my 83-year-old partially deaf father - over the phone.”

Other than that, thanks for creating some fun for those long winter nights!

Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

I really don't care too much about the implementation of this into a game but I miss games with more then one game element.

I would like to see a game with 2 very different items combined into one game. But make it 2 really different things. Like if you combined the balls from 2006 and the tubes from 2007 into 1 game. Making teams choose the type of robot they want to build while making it extremely difficult to do everything. This would also allow for more diverse types of alliances in the tournament as there will be a much more diverse field.

2008 - pool noodles and foam footballs :yikes:
2007 - tube <-one game object
2006 - balls <-one game object
2005 - tetras <- one game object
2004 - big and small balls and goals <---very good
2003 - totes <-one game object
2002 - soccar balls and goals <--okay

Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

Here's a game idea I developed just for the fun of it -

Playing field -
The game is played on a square field 32’ x 32’ by 4 teams of 2 robots.
Each alliance will be located on one of the 4 sides (see attached sketch)
A multi tiered scoring platform will be located mid field, made up of immovable and movable parts. (see attached sketch)
There will be 4 parts that are mobile with one assigned to each alliance.
A multi tiered immovable scoring structure will be located in each corner.
There will be speed bumps used to divide the playing field and to create the robot starting location (which also doubles as the bonus point zone)

The game pieces will be 12” and 18” inch traffic cones. 12” Yellow for autonomous and 18” Orange for the non-autonomous playing periods.

Each traffic cone will be marked with A, B, C, or D – to match each alliance team that will use them.


Scoring – with game pieces
The game has 3 playing periods with unique scoring rules as follows;
Autonomous period 15 seconds – successful scoring is counted by each alliance and cannot be de-scored during subsequent playing periods. Uniquely marked alliance game pieces will be used during this time period only – this cone will be placed on the robot prior to the start of the match.

All for one playing period (45 seconds) – All alliances will attempt to increase their score by working as one. The score is computed by adding all alliance scoring during this period.

Open scoring period (60 seconds) – the resultant score of both All for one and Open scoring time periods. De-scoring is allowed by removing game pieces from any alliance scoring zone, except from the mobile scoring platform.

Scoring – bonus points
If an alliance can successfully move their scoring crate into the designated bonus point area before the game ends, they will be awarded 20 bonus points.

Each alliance Open playing period scoring will be added to their Autonomous scoring and to the Accumulated all for one playing scoring, along with the bonus scoring.

Each team will be assigned QP values as follows
Highest accumulated score = 3 QP
2nd highest score = 2 QP
3rd Highest score = 1 Qp
Lowest score = 0 QP
In the case of a tie, each team tied will divide the QP points, for example;
Team A scored 54 pts = 3 QP pts
Team B and C scored 42 pts = 1.5 QP pts (2+1=3/2)
Team D scored 20 pts = 0 QP pts


Successful scoring and values –
Autonomous scoring of 12” Yellow cone occurs when the cone is;
Placed on top level Mid field platform = 10
Placed on corner scoring platform = 4
Placed in their alliance scoring crate = 6
Placed in opponent scoring crate = 3

Non-autonomous scoring of 18” Yellow cone occurs when the cone is;
Placed on top level Mid field platform = 5
Placed on corner scoring platform = 2
Placed in their alliance scoring crate = 3
Placed in opponent scoring crate = 0

Human players control the flow of the cones onto the playing field. Human players will pass one cone through a hole in the wall at a time – at a controlled rate of 1 every 15 secs. upon an audible signal.
All cones are able to be scored by either member of the team, regardless of which human player passed it onto the field of play.

Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

I had another idea today...if the field floor was a smooth surface, you could use balls or other shape elements with super Velcro on them, and goal posts, like tall PVC poles, that you can stick the balls on. The poles could be incremented by heights and you get different points for the heights.

Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

OMG, just spent 30 minutes typing a game and page went back :O

anyway, i was inviting a game...

In general i would like to say that flying stuff is cool, weight limitations rasied would be nice, lifting bots is cool, mybe 2 autonomus rounds?

Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

Just one word-

clowns



Inflatable punching clowns

see attached






(For the young'uns this game was originally submitted to this board in 2003)

Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

I dunno -- sounds kinda scary to me! :D

How about all the robots getting in the one clown car at the end?

Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

I've met Jack. He is an unstable air-head and he flip-flops under pressure.

:eek: :yikes: :eek: :yikes: :eek:

Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

I know him too- that one guy usually in a knock down-drag out with the team but he's always pumped up for competition.....


WC:cool:

Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

Man, how did I miss this post?! It wasn't up on the portal whenever I was looking...

If anything's still open for suggestion/discussion, here's a couple of things I've been thinking about for a while now:

1.) Model the 2006-2007 FTC competition finals for alliance selection -- one additional robot to serve as the backup robot as well as rotate in/out, as mentioned above. It could definitely help save some time for repairs and help broaden alliance strategies.

2.) Have a part of the field that only one type of robot can get to. We see all kinds of drive trains but too often teams go with simple tank drive with 4-6 traction wheels simply because it's, well simple. How about a lake of marbles that simulates driving on ice? Good luck getting around that thing without large, wide wheels or tank tread! The lake of marbles was an excellent demonstration of the different drive trains during a VEX obstacle course we set up for people to play during a local town festival.

3.) Less possibility of an accidental reach-over from the human player. Geez, the finger accidentally broke the plane while throwing a tube onto the field, why penalize everyone by shutting the robot off completely?

4.) Autonomous consists of switches that are set high (~10 feet) or in an obscured area, and require fairly accurate manipulation of a [game piece] the robots do not start off with. To score in autonomous, the game pieces must be removed or manipulated -- as an example, a switch must be flipped, a rotational lever turned, canister relocated, etc. The alliances get a [1 + #objectives/(roll of dice)] scalar to their non-end-game score based upon how many objectives they complete. Let's face it, a big endgame provides something simple for rookie teams to do but an inversely-proportioned auton leaves veteran teams feeling like they have unused skills. Oh yea, and the starting zones for the robots changes every match. Easiest way to do this is to draw the lines based upon a random angle for the starting positions using lasers mounted on top of the alliance stations.

5.) There could also be a red/blue safe zone that exsists where the teams may gather game pieces for scoring that are worth more than the typical game piece, with 1 caveat: the entire robot must fit under a 2-3 foot overhang to get to this area. No opposing-alliance robot may enter or break the plane of this area, and no pieces may be retrieved from this area without first going underneath the overhang. This area is on the side of the audience so that they may see the robots shrink down to fit under the bridge. The entrance of the bridge also has an auton. light guiding a robot to it, however the gamepieces within may not always be in the same spot.

Re: [Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2008 game...
 

I had an idea for the game pieces. Not anything more really.

FIRST has done big and awkward, how about something small and irregular? something that requires a lot of fine control- Like a hockey puck. If you think about it, it's perfect. They can be ordered in bulk, they're cheap (a dollar each) , which was a complaint about the track balls this year. for the price of one trackball, you can get 100 pucks, probably more then enough.

You can also get them with screening- so you could have red faced pucks and blue faced pucks, or green vision pucks...

The only drawback I could see is that a human player throwing one could be a little more dangerous then foam balls or such. Or a robot shooting them. but you could design a game where shooting them would not help at all.

Also, they have an irregular shape- can't just build a roller based system like many teams did in 2006. Or perhaps you can. But it would probably require a little more work.

A few ideas on how you could design a game: Have a ramp that the robot has to drive up to dump the pucks into a slot- which then feeds them back to a human player via a ramp.

Or have puck dispensers that dispense pucks at different times in the game- for fun you could set them to randomize- and teams have to gather the most pucks and set them in them to movable platforms on the field- think a 4 ft hexagon with a bucket in the middle. This adds a defensive aspect as well- you can move the goal away from your opponent, they can move it towards another robot on their alliance, so on and so forth.

The electronic scoring could be simple too- a little scale to weigh how many pucks are in each bucket. divide by the weight of a puck, voila!


So there's your conglomeration of random thoughts on hockey pucks in FIRST.

and one more thing- a puck with a FIRST logo would be a great souvenir of a tournament for anybody...