IFI Responds to the Community
 

Innovation First, Inc.

OFFICIAL STATEMENT

This is in response to the many inquiries and notes of support we’ve received regarding the recent announcement by FIRST to expand the intermediate program formerly known as the FIRST Vex Challenge. Innovation First, Inc. (IFI) pitched this program to the FIRST Board of Directors in 2002, and we have been working diligently to make it a reality ever since. IFI is pleased that FIRST has approved the intermediate program now known as the FIRST Tech Challenge. In developing the Vex Robotic Design System, IFI brought together major corporations, universities and some of the brightest minds in industry to deliver an award-winning platform that our customers now rally around. The volunteers, teams and affiliate partners all reported an overwhelmingly positive response after two years of successful pilot programs.

As you can imagine, the announcement by FIRST that they are “actively exploring the use of other robotic platforms” and that Vex is “unlikely to be utilized in future competitions” comes as a great shock and disappointment to IFI. We intend to provide many more years of service to FIRST and the community by delivering the best value products and exceeding expectations – a trait in which we take pride. Please understand that IFI received this information via the Chief Delphi forum, not via FIRST. While we frequently read the Chief Delphi site to stay current on what is important to teams and the issues that impact their experience, we don't typically comment or speculate on FIRST-related business. Although we don’t fully understand FIRST’s decision and related intentions (and we certainly can’t speak for FIRST), we can comment on the facts surrounding Vex and IFI’s continued commitment to the platform.

FAQs
Q: If FIRST drops Vex, will IFI continue the Vex platform?
Yes! Sales of the Vex Robotics Design System are setting new records each month, with the vast majority of shipments going to our primary market of schools and universities for classroom use – in addition to extracurricular competitions.

Q: Will IFI continue to innovate and grow the Vex platform?
Yes! IFI continues to add additional resources to support the rapid growth of Vex. As a follow up to the popular new Advanced Gear Kit and Large Omni Wheel, we’ll be introducing five new accessories and sensor items this summer alone. Other significant enhancements are in the works. We’re also working with Intelitek and Carnegie Mellon University on additional new curriculum and educational support materials. Vexplorer™, the new mass market robotics kit designed by IFI for Revell, debuts on the shelves and websites of major US retailers in August exposing the Vex platform to thousands of new, young customers.

Q: Will there be other Vex competitions?
Yes. While our primary support goes to FIRST, there are already a growing number of local and regional competitions using Vex today. We continue to receive inquiries from a number of organizations to support both national and international competitions. The reality is there will be multiple options to compete in the future and we hope that FIRST is among them.

Q: Is the Vex platform limited to the United States?
No, Vex is global. International shipments of Vex platform-based products have increased tenfold in the past year alone. As just one example, the Chinese ministry of education recently visited the U.S. as part of its Vex pilot in Chinese middle and high schools. IFI facilitated two Chinese regional tournaments and, along with our Chinese manufacturer, brought eight teams to compete in Atlanta. They have since requested space for twenty-five teams in 2008. In addition, the newly formed Asia Robotics League has selected the Vex Robotics Design System as its exclusive platform for their six-country competition to be held in Seoul, Korea in October. There are also Vex events planned for Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Israel, UK and others.

Q: Is it IFI’s desire to end the relationship with FIRST?
No. Our professional staff has over a hundred combined years of FIRST experience as team members, mentors, game designers, sponsors, judges, regional director and many other positions. We believe in the FIRST mission and have enjoyed a long relationship as a FIRST supplier and sponsor. We hope to continue to serve the community for years to come.

Q: Why would FIRST change from Vex?
We don’t know. Customer feedback to IFI from teams, FIRST and a two year Brandeis University study has been overwhelmingly positive. We are unaware of any feedback that would support a platform change.

Q: Did IFI raise their price of Vex products to FIRST?
No. IFI sells Vex products directly to teams, not FIRST.

Q: Has FIRST identified a potential replacement for the Vex Robotics Design System?
We don’t know.

We assure our customers that IFI will continue to support the Vex Robotics Design System for many years to come. We hope this helps clarify some of the confusion surrounding the recent announcement by FIRST and reinforces our commitment to Vex and our customers.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

Whew... at first i thought this was IFI commenting on the 2009 controller (which i hoped they wouldn't), and giving in to the speculation.

This is good news to me, I love VEX... so far an easier to use, yet very powerful, overall robotics package hasn't existed (not just the controller, the entire line).

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

Thank you for clearing up some of the rumors. And thank you for supporting FIRST and continuing to produce an excellent line of products.

It does concern me that FIRST did not consult with IFI on the changes, if there are going to be changes. I think in light of the situation, FIRST will have to do their part now to clarify the announcement of the new (FRC) controller for 2009. But I'm sure a) whatever the reason for the confusion, all had good intentions and b) there will be a solution in which we can enjoy some new features and the proven reliability of the IFI products at the same time.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

Sorry, folks. :o I deleted the first 2 posts because I was trying to edit my profile and couldn't figure out how to see the changes except for creating a post. Here's my response:

Thank you, IFI. One rumor is that IFI no longer wanted the relationship with FIRST and I appreciate that you cleared this up in a public forum. I sincerely hope that FIRST will have a gracious response. Since you are still in the game, will you be offering a bundle kit this year? It was announced at the World Championship that one would be available and that it would be different from last year's. What I would like to see is one that includes the programming software and the power pack since those are essentials in competition. Again, thanks for sharing and I hope that the relationship between IFI and FIRST continues for a very long time.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

is this what you're talking about?
http://www.vexlabs.com/vex-robotics-design-system.shtml

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

that is the starter kit, to be a bundle he's thinking of it would have to also include the programming kit and rechargeable battery kit.

and hopefully more than one of each battery, and hopefully some more hardware too.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

ahh i guess when we started last year we started with one of those bundles. The starter kt must have been part of it. Thanks for the correction.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

:ahh: Wow! I am almost speechless! VEX is a great platform and I am sure that it will find a new home in another robotic competition soon.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=57968 FTC announcement thread.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

[personal commentary, based upon publicly observable facts and trends in regards to FIRST]

I really have to disagree with FIRST about their dropping of the Vex Robotics Design Platform for their mid-level robotics competition from 2009 onward. Of all their programs, the FVC had one of the best chances to grow to thousands of teams (and become as big as if not bigger than the FIRST LEGO League), and inspire the greatest possible number of students. I know at this point I'm just preaching to the choir, but I certainly wish FIRST executives would read ChiefDelphi the way IFI does.

I think the problem right now with FIRST is that so far, they haven't really "failed", as in we-hit-rock-bottom-and-begun-to-dig failure. This season came close with the multiple compounding problems with Banebots, rule changes, and scoring software. But everything they've done so far has always kind of worked out in the end, and judging from their actions, they almost seem to have an 'invincible' mindset that they can never fail.

And right now, that seems to be getting in the way of them being able to see the reality of the potential of the [former] FVC.

‘You may not realise it when it happens, but a kick in the teeth may be the best thing in the world for you.’ - Walt Disney

Honestly, while I certainly don't agree with their actions to drop the Vex platform from their list of competitions, I almost want to see this be a decision that will be regrettable for FIRST. I want to see another competition use the Vex platform and grow larger, and inspire more students than the eventual new platform of the FTC. I want to see FIRST realize that maybe they should consult the FIRST community before they make decisions, and any decisions made should be about "How can we inspire even more students?"

Because in the end, everything about FIRST boils down to inspiring students. And any decision that would lead to less potential, and a smaller number of students being inspired certainly wouldn't be a positive one for their bottom line.

As for alternatives, there are also a bunch of non-FVC Vex competitions out there already. Not that I'm biased or anything *cough cough*, but WPI's Savage Soccer competition is currently one of the largest and has been around for over 10 years! (They used to use modified RC-cars before the days of EDUbot/Vex.) ;)


And with that in mind... If there is one thing I learned from FIRST, it is that when presented with a challenge, creative thinking and some sound sense will get you a solution to any problem in life. So that only means one thing...

I guess it'll be time to start the SECOND Vex Challenge!

Science and
Engineering
Can
Overcome
New
Dilemmas

Long Live Vex! :D

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

I do not know the whole story and I hope to learn about it one day. BUT where is FIRSTS GP to ifi????? They should never learn of something like this from cd. FIRST you must pratice what you preach.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

Please don't say something like that unless you know 100% everything that has been said between parties.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

In general...please understand that sometimes in business, even non-profit business, certain companies have to make tough decisions in order to move forward and do what they feel the proper plan is for that company. Gracious Professionalism, though a good creed to live by, is not always the way of the business world today. There are times where in order to survive as a business, you have to do things which will seem unfair to various companies. It is a fact of life. Whether we agree or disagree with FIRST's decisions as of this point, the fact of the matter is they are trying to do what they feel is best for FIRST as a company. It might be the right move, it might be the wrong move, but GP does not factor into that score.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

EDITED

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

To the above three posts:

1. Not commenting on things unless we're 100% certain of all the particulars is a little silly, since even the particulars in this matter certainly don't know 100% of everything that's been said or has happened. You're basically demanding no one ever be critical of anyone or critical of FIRST or something. IFI has said they only found out about this via CD. Either you believe what they said, or you don't. I've yet to see anything anywhere else that would indicate otherwise.

2. It's true that GP is in short supply in the modern business world. I think the point being made was that if FIRST believes in GP - and they certainly seem to want teams to live by it and apply it as far as possible - then they should hold themselves to that standard in their dealings. You'd expect them to discuss a change of this magnitude with IFI. Not necessarily change any plans at all that they're making, but at least give IFI a heads up about things. It seems the courteous and professional thing to do. To see FIRST act in such an odd manner feels a bit like I've discovered the executive board of Greenpeace tools around in Hummers with under-inflated tires.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

This whole entire scenario is what confuses me. They are looking for alternatives but as far as I can tell none exisistt to the level of Vex. They are going to reinvent the wheel and quite frankly that is dumb.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

Either one of two things could have happened here. Either IFI could be lying(I think not) about them finding out through CD or FIRST did not exactly communicate correctly with IFI. If I were a dedicated vendor to a company for many years, almost since its inception, I'd be very very angry to find out I have been let-go through a PUBLIC channel. Think about it, IFI supplies us with a large portion of electronics and software. This is almost half the robot. Furthermore, is it good that the community has to find out through the vendor that FIRST did not even communicate with them? Where is the gracious professionalism in this? Where is the inspiration in seeing FIRST go-against it's own values? Why should us teams follow these ideals and values when it is not demonstrated by the parent organization? Gracious Professionalism has everything to do with this decision because IFI is that big a part of FIRST. In the past few years so many people I know have been hired by IFI. Obviously, IFI must have faith in FIRST to do something like that. It is also a demonstration of gracious professionalism. While I agree that this is a business, I think FIRST is something more. Why FIRST has to let go IFI is none of my business and I will not speculate. However, I do not see any good reason for them to let go but FIRST might have a good reason. Either way, I think this situation could have been handled a whole lot better. I also hope to find out the full story one day. None of what I mentioned is speculation - it is very factual.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

Similar to the speculation that took place in the other threads, speculation and opinionated debate (without knowing the whole situation) here does no good. None of us know what FIRST and IFI did and did not do and know, so implying that FIRST did or didn't handle the situation correctly, or that FIRST did or didn't wrong IFI, etc. will just make matters worse. Especially when you create a new account to post your unsubstantiated, yet opinionated, thoughts without linking your opinion to your name and/or team/organization.
I highly doubt that anyone posting in this thread, aside of possibly IFI and/or FIRST representatives, knows any substantial truths about this situation, and speculating and/or taking sides will likely only cause the few facts we know of the future of IFI and FIRST to become distorted.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

*rant*
all right its been said before but i gotta say it again

Gracious Professionalism is a standard to live your life at....

Do NOT judge other people using the term Gracious Proffessionalism
*/rant*

(sorry to side track the thread.)

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

Andy, I agree with your statement.

However, I think his point was that IFI (or any partner, vendor, etc) should not learn of a business decision on FIRST's part through an internet forum like Chiefdelphi, and I agree. That's not good business practice.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

To teach and inspire we must set the example. FIRST needs to follow it's own words and set the example. GP is a phrase coined by FIRST and is part of the foundation FIRST is built upon. If you pull GP from the foundation FIRST will become very unstable. I would hope that FIRST is better than not following their own words.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

Maybe FIRST believes that either some rules are meant to be broken OR only individuals can practice gracious professionalism because organizations and professional settings make it impossible? Either way I'm going to be disappointed when Woodie gives his GP speech at kickoff because I'll be thinking of my friends in Greenville, Texas.

EDIT: I am not judging Woodie. I am judging the words being preached by FIRST during the kickoff. Woodie's not the only one that talks about GP, but he is the one that introduces the concept and the one everyone thinks of when you hear GP.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

This is exactly the sentiment that cuts a little too deep for me. I can't believe that Woodie is a hypocrite. Therefore, I must believe that there is something more to the situation.

Please don't assume the worst about the good folks at FIRST.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

There is nothing wrong with Woodie Flowers. He is a great guy. We have no idea if he was involved in making this decision or running any of the related communication. There is no point attacking any one person because we do not know who runs what at FIRST. All some of us above are stating is that we do not agree with the way FIRST went about this situation. I hope it brings about some positive changes even though we don't know the full story.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

FTC does not have to use another robot platform like the VEX platform. First could be shifting the FTC program to something more like FRC that does not have a off the shelf commercial kit.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

And that is what I am worried about.

Part of the large potential of the FVC program is that anyone can form a team, literally in their basement or garage or even an English classroom. The only tools needed besides those provided are a hacksaw, a file, maybe pliers, and a computer. Virtually anyone can build a FVC competition robot, anywhere, with barely any of the resources needed to build a non-kit robot like FRC.

Take away the off-the-shelf kit aspect of the FVC, and you lose a very large portion of its potential, and you will most likely see negative growth in the program.

As a "mini FRC" type competition, you'd basically be emulating and competing against BEST, which took over a decade to grow to 600+ teams. FVC grew to roughly this same size in only two seasons. It doesn't take a mathematician to see the growth trends of the two, and to ascertain which competition model has lead to more growth (and hence inspiration of students).

Now I am in no way trying to bash or discredit BEST, as any competition or foundation which aspires to inspire students is a worthwhile venture. But if you were to start your own competition from scratch, and had to choose a competition model that has the higher chance of growth, which would you choose? FVC or BEST?

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

GP is an ideal to live by, but not a tool to judge with as Mike pointed out so well. It's also not a very accurate or a just thing to equate Dr. Woodie Flowers, professor and FIRST national advisor, with FIRST the non-profit organization. Woodie is a volunteer for FIRST just like many of us are. I look forward to his wise words every year and I frequently seek out his words through MIT websites and video interviews from other sources, too. There's no doubt that, if given the opportunity again by FIRST in 2008, he'll once again inspire thousands of listeners with his view of the world, GP, and whatever else he might be so kind to share with us all. Woodie is his own man who's goals for our culture are in line with FIRST's.

That doesn't mean he speaks for FIRST on ALL topics and it's a poor assumption to think he has anything at all to do with the recent announcements regarding IFI. Whatever assumptions you might hold about FIRST (and/or IFI for that matter) in this situation, by no means should you allow that to dampen the opportunity to hear from perhaps the most wonderful combination of vision, thinking, and social conscience our culture has ever seen.

Namaste.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

I have read this thread quite a few times. IFI responded back, now let's wait to hear a response back from FIRST. Let's not jump on a bandwagon to bash FIRST or anyone else for that matter. Let's not speak without knowing the "facts." If you say something please have valid reasonings behind it. =)

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

If FIRST issues a statement, I would be very surprised. This isn't a problem like the Banebots failing, or the radios not responding. As of now, there aren't millions of dollars on the line, and there aren't tens of thousands of people involved. Most likely a large portion of teams and team members don't even know about the prospective platform change (Honestly, how many of the people on your team actually get informed of the email blasts or check usfirst.org regularly?).

In all likelyhood, the only people who care are some of the "hardcore" FIRSTers, and IFI. I'd be willing to bet FIRST HQ has seen this thread (or at least IFI's press release), but I don't believe we don't constitute a large enough audience to make a statement worth it. If IFI isn't worth informing, why are we worth informing?

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

If FIRST changes platforms, they will likely only change to a superior platform. It would make no sense to change to a platform that is inferior.

In that case, there is really no reason to complain NOW. We have no details, and this change is literally years away. How about we wait until we absolutely know what will happen, and absolutely know the capabilities of the replacement before we complain (Same goes for the 2009 control system for FRC).

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

They (FIRST reps) will probably talk with IFI and whomever the new control system supplier would be (if there is one already, but I can't imagine there not being one in mind given the situation) before they make an official statement.

I agree that it isn't a pressing build season crisis; all the proposed changes are for the 2009 season. So I wouldn't expect a statement immediately. But to not offer any explanation at all would be strange/disappointing. Even if it is strictly a business decision, some other supplier is giving a huge donation or something, I think the explanation is worth something.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

Here's where I think you're wrong. While I don't know the specifics of IFI's contract for FIRST, keep in mind what they provide to each team for FRC. Also keep in mind the engineers and support that they have at each regional and at Atlanta. That's got to be a fairly substantial contract. Also keep in mind the size of Vex and it's current growth trend. If IFI loses that contract, while it's not a huge chunk of IFI's profit currently, they will certainly be losing out on a large chunk of potential profits.

Re: IFI Responds to the Community
 

Releveant

IFI makes their money with Rack Solutions. I do agree though that if FTC does move away from Vex, IFI stands to lose significant Vex sales.

Perhaps SECOND teams can go to FTC events and do sales pitches for Vex? :D