AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Okay, so -- inquiring minds want to know -- were they there and who has pictures?

:)

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Yes, they were there. I did not take pictures. Basically, it has the same mounting setup as the AM single speed and a similar housing too. It has 1/4" aluminum side plates. Instead of the sprockets inside, it has a small gear. There is one additional shaft with a larger gear making it perfect to direct drive a wheel. The shifting setup is a bit different too. The servo mount is very robust and looks like a good setup.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

It seems like Andy and Mark have made all the changes we were considering making on our own. I can't wait to see the changes and see if they'll work with our drivetrain. I'd sure be happy to avoid making the modifications required by the NBD arrangement, especially given that relative indifference provided by its two highest ratios.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

If anyone has pictures I would appreciate it if they posted them. I am curious as to what they look like.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

I saw them and they look really bad.
Heavy plates, thin gears, unreliable shifting.
I am not sure what Andy and MArk are thinking on this one.
I don't think any teams should use them in 2008.

HOWEVER, Team 234 will volunteer to use these "unproven" devices in 2008 and then report back to the other 1500 FIRST teams on how they do. Then, maybe you can consider them for 2009.

I know, I know, this is a big sacrifice for us to take, but we are willing to do this as a sign of true Gracious Professionalism.
It just seems like the right thing to do.



:)

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Nice try, Chris.

However, I think in the interest of statistically valid engineering test results, 931 will graciously undertake the same experiment.;)

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Haha, I was thinking the same thing. We would be more than willing to test them for AM before they sell them :p

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

But seriously, does anyone who went have pictures for those of us across the country who would like to see?

I'm very curious as to how these gearboxes have been improved.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

They sound to be rather inspired by how team 45 used the GEN 2s this year.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

For those of us out of the loop, how would 45's shifters differ from the stock Gen2's?

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

From this thread (and in person at champs);

It's similar to the gearboxes the "west coast drive" 4/22/60/254/968/980 have used over the years. I guess this opens up AM shifters to a whole new market.

You'd have to ask Andy or Mark to be sure, but I bet that's where the idea to expand the design came from.

EDIT: I have a question for AM as well... Is the output shaft supported well enough such that you could bolt the transmission to the frame, and mount a wheel on the output shaft that is cantilevered?

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Similar yes, but with considerable differences. The 968/254 transmissions 06 and 07 transmissions feature larger gears for more reduction as opposed to an additional stage. Also, the 4/22/980/60 gearbox is a mesh shifting style; completely different. I suppose you were referring to the way they all face mount which is similar, yes.

From what I saw this would be possible, although I am not sure if the output shaft I saw would be long enough to do so.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

team 375 will gladly put the transmissions to the test, we will test drive components them using an SUV :D


No i am not joking!!

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

I knew someone would call me on that... I was referring more to the concept/function than the internal workings.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

The sideplates are now aluminum instead of steel. They no longer have the mounting flanges. Teams will have to either fabricate their own, or bolt them through the face of the transmission to a frame member.

They are also fully enclosed.

They will come standard with the option to either use servos or pneumatics to shift, as well as an encoder.

An extra stage of gearing is added to allow direct drive. As previously mentioned, I'm not sure that the output shaft is long enough to mount a wheel and sprockets on it.

Andy said that if you don't wish to direct drive, you can remove the third stage of gearing, and purchase an extended intermediate shaft from them (that would become the output shaft) and use them exactly like the Gen 2 shifter.

I wouldn't say that functionally they look drastically different. They just have some minor tweaks that make them more versatile, IMO.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Seems like you should have a rookie team test them as well, to check for ease of implementation and driving skills needed. I may be able to help out with that.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

By the sound of these new features, will the Super Shifters be entirely replacing the Gen 2 transmissions? I had originally thought that they would cost marginally more for the added features like encoder mounts, but it now sounds as though they are essentially the Gen 3 design, and if so, will the price point remain the same?

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

The generation 2 shifter will still be sold. Andy said they will not be discontinuing any products, just so that people who bought them previously can still continue to use them in future competitions.

I believe he said the price has not yet been determined. I would imagine it would be slightly more expensive than a gen 2.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

This is all true.

At this point, we are simply trying to recover from IRI. Releasing information on this gearbox is not at the top of our priority list right at this minute, but we will release it soon.

Sincerely,
Andy

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Mr. Baker, you are a tease...

We're pretty much finished with our prototype design and reaching the point we can't change it. It's based on Gen 2s now, but I'm getting an itching urge to try to incorporate the Gen 3's. Is it reasonable to expect details and drawings within 2-3 weeks?

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Yes.

AB

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

The only thing I can say is that they are real good! I should know!

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

So, really, nobody took pictures? You all fail. :p

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

I stopped and looked and I had a camera in my hand actually, but me being myself, it never occured to me to get a picture...

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Here is the best example of one I can find. Just the metal plate in between the metal plates is actually black.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

But thats just a single speed! You just took the picture from www.andymark.biz! :mad:

So are they really that similar? Bolt hole pattern identical?

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

to quote cory;

To me that sounds like the casing and plates will be very similar to the single speed.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

It may just be because I haven't held a gen2 lately, but they seemed a lot smaller as well.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

The main reason why they look significantly smaller is due to the fact that there are no more flanges on the long side of the gearbox. To me the asectics of this gearbox are more appealing, nice, simple and compact design.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Yes I took the picture from andymark.biz, and I did it on purpose because that is about the best I will get to the actual thing for now. The real thing looks very very similar!

EDIT: Here is an artist rendering of what I remember the super shifter looks like. The super on top just is to tell you it is a super shifter, otherwise, it really isn't on there.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

emphasis addedPardon me for changing the subject ... but ...

Prototype design of WHAT??

The 2007 season is over, '08 is months away, and it is the middle of the summer !!

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

We, too, are about to start working on a drivetrain. It's a great way for us to work out the kinks in design and manufacturing philosophy and to teach our kids about the work that goes into the robot at a more relaxed pace. We try our best to explain everything that's going on, but six weeks' time is hardly enough to really examine the form of function of each part and assembly.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

We took our 2007 season base that we developed with 687 and updated it greatly. We made everything easier to work with (whatever bothered whoever had to maintenence it) and maintain. We also made the frame easier to weld and more modular. Our final addition was incorporating off the shelf components such as AndyMark shifters to make production easier.

In terms of drive, all sorts of prototyping can be done during the off-season. Even if this base design doesn't get used for '08, the lessons learned from it will carry over. It also never hurts to have a fully assembled and running base to test with.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Someone please explain what I am seeing here. First, are the sides open or made of a black material? Second, is the gray thing sticking out of the side a metal holder for the black thing, which I assume is the servo. Third, does someone have a hand-drawn picture that they can show?

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

The gearbox is enclosed with a black anodized aluminum box beam section.

the piece sticking off the side is maybe 1.5" aluminum angle, with a pocket milled out of it for the servo to mount to (with the exception that on the real thing, the shifter is located on the non-output shaft side of the gearbox. It also has an encoder built into the same area. The standard pneumatic shifting fixture remains in the same place.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

When I looked at it, wasn't it just black plastic? There is no flanges on the gearbox.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Nope. It's definitely anodized aluminum.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Yes, that is my poor rendering skills at work there. Everything said above is true, I will redraw what I remember of it, but I'm thinking that everyone is going to have to wait for Mr. Baker to find time to get the real thing out. I just thought I would give a little teaser!

P.S. NO BOTHERING ANDY FOR A PHOTO!

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

There is a Super Shifter page on the AndyMark website. More details (CAD, assembly drawings) will be released within 5-6 weeks. Here are the key features and improvements:

An additional shaft, with 2 standard ratios (2.25:1 or 2.82:1) that would reduce the speed in addition to the current output speeds of the AM Shifter

An included encoder, US Digital model E4P-250-250, located on the final drive shaft

Common shift hardware used both for pneumatic or servo shifting, so choosing between one or the other is easier

An enclosed gearbox, much like our http://www.andymark.biz/am-0011.html, but wider (and a bunch more stuff included)

A 1/2" output shaft, with a 1/8" keyway and a 1/4-20 threaded hole on the end

Ability to mount 2 CIM motors (not enough room for a Large CIM motor)

1/4" thick aluminum side plates

The same gearing (mostly) as the AM Shifter in the cluster gear shaft and output gears

We have not set a price yet, but we are looking at $370 as a target. Keep in mind that 2 gears, 1 shaft, and 1 encoder are all being added. Also, we are debating about providing both the pneumatic and servo shift options for each gearbox. It is super.

Andy B.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Can u give us the dimensions of the square hole pattern in the 4 corners?

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

The side plates are 5"x5"x1/4". The mounting holes are 0.312" in from the sides, and therefore 4.376" apart from each other. Those 4 mounting holes are for 1/4-20 bolts. The 5"x5" extrusion enclosing the gearbox is 2.00" long.

Andy B.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Could we have the weight of the assembly as shown in the pictures?

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

The weight of this gearbox, without the motors is 4.6 lbs. This is 1.1 lbs heavier than the AM Shifter.

We have made no effort to fabricate lightening holes or features in the gears or side plates. That would take machining time, which would add significant cost, driving the price way over $400.

Three main places that teams could reduce weight in this gearbox would be to replace the aluminum extrusion with spacers (about 0.7 lbs), lighten the final drive gear and the cluster gears (about 0.4 lbs), and put lightening features into the 2 side plates (about 0.4 lbs total). Using these 3 methods alone, 1.5 lbs could be reduced for each gearbox.

As we prepare documentation for this gearbox, I will make more detailed designs regarding how and where to lose weight.

Andy B.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

that's nice!

and you'll be selling small broached steel #35 sprockets to put on the output shaft? hint hint hint

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Yes... and what if those 12 tooth sprockets were offered in steel and 7075 aluminum?

We already offer the 12 tooth sprockets.

The 7075 aluminum sprockets will be new for us. We are initially putting out a 12 tooth version, but may make 14 tooth and others if the demand is high.

Andy B.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

Ooh, can you make broached, 7075 Aluminum, #25 pitch sprockets next? Please?

Steel sprockets are killing our weight budget.

Re: AndyMark transmissions at IRI
 

92511A085 and 92510A792 from mcmaster would get that job done real fast, and for a decent price.