Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

While driving does play a very important role in many people's lives, it is far from being a necessity. There are other ways to get where you need to go: buses, taxis, bikes, rollerblades, skateboards, or just old-fashioned walking.

Some would argue that the places they need to be are too far away to use such modes of transportation. However, I'm just trying to prove that there are other ways to get to places--even if a person doesn't want to use them. One can wake up an hour earlier and ride their bike. Or even earlier and walk. Not driving does create extra effort from people. In my opinion, though, driving is a privilege--you don't need to drive to live. (which would make it a necessity). However, I still don't think I agree with the new law, because I think it has more drawbacks than positive attributes.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

Just for some information from up here in Ontario. When you reach a certain age you must be retested every 2 years to retain your license. There are also medical issues that can remove your license.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

a) FIRST is NOT a monopoly and has done nothing to promote that. A successful growing organization is not inherently bad.

b) Corporations are not inherently 'bad' either, contrary to the noise spouted by some politicians in order to get votes.

c) FIRST in every school isn't 'mumbo jumbo'. FIRST would be happy with any thing that a school can do to improve learning and inspiration. If the school can find a program that better fits their needs then they should certainly pursue it. There are FIRST teams, mentors, and sponsors that also participate in these other programs.

d) What is the definition of 'kicks FIRST's butt' ? Is it cost ? Sporting fun ? Educational Impact ?

e) Cost are relative. It is costly relative to what most people carry around in their pocket as disposable income. It is cheap relative to the educational and economic impact that the community derives from this activity. I can give examples but it is outside the scope of this thread.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

Guilty until proven innocent?
Lame.

Btw, in response to this thread I got my license after I graduated HS by choice. In this case, what was to stop me from not going to school, or failing some classes??

This may solve some problems, and create more but it certainly does not address the whole HS attending teenage community.

I've never had any feelings on choosing to live or not to live in certain states in the US, but today I'm kinda glad I don't live in Kentucky right about now.

It will be interesting to see how many states follow suit in the enacting of this law, and when. (Horray for an election year!)

I want to see some statistics a year from now on how this is affecting the state's HS attendence but I don't see this as being a move in a positive direction as of right now.

Btw in response to:

I submit the following: http://kchr.ky.gov/complaintform.htm

Fight government with government if you feel violated. :)

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

I'm not sure the techinicalities on insurance with regards to having a license or not. If lose your license, would the insurance company be forced to drop you even if you've already paid (i.e. issue a prorated refund)?

If so, I simply forsee an increase in the amount of uninsured motorist accidents.

I definitely agree with this spectrum of thinking. There is always a way to change or circumvent the contrary, and that is part of the point of FIRST.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

I know of several kids at my former high school who drove not only without a license, but without insurance. Most of the time, those are the same kids that are failing because they don't care (I know there are exceptions, but a lot of kids at my old high school just didn't care). If the kids here are the same as the kids there, this law will really only deter a few kids; You may say, that makes it worth it, but I think the same amount of money could be spent in better ways to motivate even more kids.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

Yes, we have pretty much the same law, but not as strict on the education side. Here (NC) you can only fail one class before you license or permit is taken. If you drop out, you have to wait untill your 18 before you can get your license. I think for some the law can be a small, overlook, yet important fator in schooling. Luke's point is that a license isn't a big enough factor to someone planning on dropping out of school, and those who want to graduate are already planning on passing 3/4 classes anyways.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

a) The attitude of MANY people involved with FIRST believe in "FIRST in every school" no questions asked. FIRST Lego League, FIRST Tech, or FIRST robotics. I think that even if it is NOT the goal of FIRST, this attitude is going to try to make it a monopoly because sooner or later it will be in every state's legislation to fund FRC teams in high schools. I think that it is wrong. And btw, DK is the one pushing on this legislation.

b) I meant everything that comes with the negative connotation of corporation.

c) FIRST IS NOT RIGHT FOR EVERY SCHOOL. There are MANY other robotics programs with the same success rates. And I don't believe in 100% inspiration, I believe in 100% teaching them about SciTechEng, so they make informed decisions and keep in mind the worlds needs when ever they become older. I could care less [to a degree] whether 100 people become engineers or 10 people become engineers through any robotics program AS LONG AS those other 90 people realize what the world needs and votes/supports engineering in some way shape or form.

d) Cost and educational impact. 1 program comes to mind, Botball. Students learn to program AND it is fairly inexpensive in comparison to FIRST.


[Lost so I'll try to respond with 2 points I thought tried to make]
e)Agreed, and FIRST maybe one of the leaders [behind Battlebots...] when it comes to showing people about robotics and getting the most public impact per dollar. At the same time, you don't need robotics to force you to do community service, etc., there are other programs that teach students about gracious professionalism, the only difference is that Woodie Flowers is not the one who explains it to these other non robotics people, its mentors, teachers, and other students in their community that students have respect for.

Pavan.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

Im sorry but your friend was stupid. In fact he's dam lucky that he didn't do more harm than good. Im assuming that without his license he didn't have insurance. Without insurance he could be sued if he got into an accident. Since he was a minor his parents were legally responisable for his actions. It's a privilege because you have to be responsible for your actions on the road. You break the law you loose your license. Of course I agree that this law is overboard because for some people it is a necessity but you need a license/insurance first.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

I think you are making a valid point, if FIRST was really all about forming a monopoly.
However, I don't think that is what FIRST or FIRST-associated people have in mind when they say "FIRST in every school". I think they want every child to have the opportunity to be a part of the FIRST organization, because it is a positive outlet for the youth of today to be involved in.

State legislatures might (in the future) incorporate a law that funds FRC programs in high schools. However, this does not mean that every high school will take advantage of the funding. The state is not going to force the money upon the high schools. They will, however, have a fund for those who DO wish to be a part of the FIRST community who may have no other way of starting a team. I don't see a problem with allocating money towards schools who wish to offer their students a vast array of academic extra-curriculars, especially FIRST-related ones, since it has been known to have a positive effect on most who have been involved with the program.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

I'm getting a little confused - do we now have 2 distinct topics in this thread?
a. the Kentucky law regarding No Pass No Drive

and

b. FIRST in Every School?

--

Not that I'm confused or anything but after all, it is only Monday. And, oh, where is my coffee? :)

Edit: no wait, I said I was confused, well, just a little. This is bad, I'm starting to talk to myself.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

hahaha. I'm a little bit confused myself! Actually, after posting that last reply, I thought I might have posted it in the wrong thread before I looked at the previous discussions here!

:)

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

I'm sorry Jane, that is pretty much my fault. This discussion went from the Kansas law [which the rest of my post is geared towards], and my previous post, which was based on Ebarker's post about FIRST in every school, and my disagreement with that viewpoint. BUT now back to the Kentucky law discussion:


Actually where I live there aren't buses outside of Houston*, or many taxis, and roller-blading/skateboarding/walking is out of the question for a location about 15-20 miles away. Not to mention that not every big road has sidewalks.

*There are busses that go from outside Houston to inside Houston and then there you can get anywhere in downtown through the buses, but outside Houston there are only stops that take you to and from downtown, or at least the ones that I've seen outside of downtown.


He may not have been the brightest crayon in the box, or even in the top half if you want to point it out that way, but just because you don't have a license or insurance doesn't mean you're the devil? Also from what I hear, he is a very safe driver. He has yet to be pulled over by the police for any reason in his five or six years, but his car was insured. Saying that just because he wasn't [note the past tense] with insurance/license doesn't mean he was careless or irresponsible. He was [and still is to my knowledge still is] a [positive] contributing member of society.


Pavan.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

There are thousands--perhaps even millions--of people who do not have a car to get to work/school everyday who use the aforementioned modes of transportation to get to where they need to be. Of course, this does mean that one must have the drive (drive meaning determination, in this case) to travel to their destination. I'm sure you can ask anyone who doesn't have a car if a car is a necessity, and they will tell you that it definitely is not. While a car definitely makes life easier and travelling less of a hassle, it is not a right or a necessity, but a privilege.

Re: Kentucky No Pass / No Drive Law
 

Sure, but asking people for rides isn't really the best way to move, and hitchhiking is by far one of the most dangerous methods of travel for a 15-17 year old [male or female], IF you're even lucky somebody is headed the direction you want to go.