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-   -   [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58729)

Rich Kressly 05-10-2007 08:03

Re: [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by billw (Post 644701)
The Inspire Award is a laudable goal, but it is, in my opinion, a much more suitable goal for larger, older (agewise) teams. There is nothing wrong with this, except that if it is the only sure path to the Nationals, it creates less incentive for smaller, younger teams.

Not necessarily for older audiences only. For several years now, the "Champions Award" (formerly called the "Directors Award") which is the FLL equal to the "Inspire Award" is the only way for an FLL team to qualify for the championship event.

That being said, it would be nice to find a way for FTC event Champions to get there as well. Right now this link shows 26 Championship (qualifying) tournaments which means a World Championship event might be doable with event Champions and Inspire winners IF, AND I'M SAYING "IF", there is a viable solution to getting teams more matches than they had last year. PLEASE keep in mind that there is also no way of knowing how many other tournaments might be out there that are not yet listed. Obviously there are concerns about space, time, total number of teams attending, and number of total matches all rolled into this decision making process. Let's see what comes out of the process.

ManicMechanic 05-10-2007 16:06

Re: [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by billw (Post 644701)
The Inspire Award is a laudable goal, but it is, in my opinion, a much more suitable goal for larger, older (agewise) teams. There is nothing wrong with this, except that if it is the only sure path to the Nationals, it creates less incentive for smaller, younger teams.

I don’t think the Inspire Award is any less realistic than the Winning Alliance Award for a small, young team. Our team of 5 (3 freshmen and 2 sophomores) had 4 students with no robotics exposure and 1 member with FLL and some Vex experience. They knew that technically, they weren’t at the bottom of the heap but weren’t at the top, either, and had no plans for either the Winning Alliance or Inspire awards.

As the team dazedly carried their Inspire Award away, one of the judges complimented them on having an impressive interview and being a diverse, well-balanced team. How I wished that I could have been a fly on the wall at that interview! I would not have imagined an all-male, Caucasian/Asian, rather inexperienced team as being seen as “diverse,” and “impressive” but from what I pieced together, the points that stood in their favor were: 1) they felt little pressure and made the judges laugh, and 2) the first-time robotics experience had struck the newbies in profound and varied ways. Three said that they were considering scientific or technical careers for the first time because of the robotics team (high school science teaching, computer science, and “something with my hands”), one had visions of how he could be a mentor to robotics kids when he was an adult, and all the newbies thought that FVC was the coolest, most awesome extracurricular they had ever done. And the veteran pulled his share of the weight in the technical department.

Veterans and older team members have a distinct advantage in having a higher level technical knowledge and maturity, but rookies have that first-time enthusiasm that can’t be replicated. Each comes with its own advantages and disadvantages.

Although the Inspire Award will always be a goal subliminally, I’d rather not see it as a central aim. Ultimately, if the team improves and appreciates what others and they have accomplished, that in itself makes the experience worth the time & effort.

Andrew Bates 06-10-2007 19:27

Re: [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals
 
I agree that it is always good to work for the inspire award, which is basically the "model Team" award. I can see why FIRST would want these teams to go to Atlanta, it would make the program look good. However who is to say that a team that builds a robot to win a regional isn't also a "model Team". Obviously they must be doing something right to have built a robot good enough to win a regional. I've never seen a team that doesn't work together win a regional, in the FTC, FRC is another story. It's true that maybe there are a couple of teams that have one kid who knows everything and builds the "perfect" robot, but those are few and far apart. A team that wins a regional have worked just as hard as a team that wins the inspire award. Several times the teams that won the regionals win the Inspire award.

robosteve 12-10-2007 20:17

Re: [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals
 
We started a team this year and are building our robot, but we thought the teams that win an event get to compete against the other event champs in Atlanta. Since the game has been unveiled, doesn't that mean the rules for qualifying are out? Does anyone know for sure if the winners do or don't qualify? I hope so (not that I think we'll be good enough to win, but would be nice to know there's a place to go if we do).

Karthik 12-10-2007 21:09

Re: [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robosteve (Post 645872)
We started a team this year and are building our robot, but we thought the teams that win an event get to compete against the other event champs in Atlanta. Since the game has been unveiled, doesn't that mean the rules for qualifying are out? Does anyone know for sure if the winners do or don't qualify? I hope so (not that I think we'll be good enough to win, but would be nice to know there's a place to go if we do).

The game has been unveiled, but the eligibility requirements for the Championship Event are still unknown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Section 7.5 FIRST Tech Challenge Championship Event Eligibility
For the 2007 season, FIRST Tech Challenge teams will need to earn their way to the FIRST Championship. Eligibility is earned by your performance on and off the field. The criteria for eligibility to the event will be announced later in the season. Teams will still be responsible for their own entry fees, lodging, and travel costs to the FIRST Championship.

(bolding and colour added for emphasis)

robosteve 14-10-2007 21:14

Re: [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals
 
Thanks Karthik,

Can't believe the season has already started and they havent told teams if they can qualify to go to Atlanta or not, but thanks for the answer. Is this the same for teams doing FLL or FRC, do they not know how they can or can't qualify for Atlanta either? Seems teams should know this stuff by the time the game is announced?
Doesn't sound like it matters for our team anyway since it looks like they cancelled the event here in Worcester this year. We're building a few robots, so I guess we'll just have a little competition between our own teams. Its a cool game, so I think we'll finish our robots even if FIRST doesn't have an event in our area. Maybe our teacher will let us buy another Vex kit with the money we save in not paying for a tournament!?! :)

gblake 14-10-2007 23:13

Re: [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robosteve (Post 646086)
I think we'll finish our robots even if FIRST doesn't have an event in our area.

Don't let "small" things get between you and your goals.

Find parents willing to drive. Be day-laborers on Saturdays to raise money. To avoid hotel bills, sleep in tents or find a soft peice of floor in some other FIRST team's home(s). To save money, take your own food. Etc.

Get to an official tournament somewhere. Don't wait for someone else to get you there. If you want to do it, you can make it happen.

Blake

gblake 14-10-2007 23:26

Re: [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by corpralchee (Post 645032)
A team that wins a regional have worked just as hard as a team that wins the inspire award.

I won't argue that; but I will point out that those two hypothetical teams certainly have not necessarily produced identical results.

On and off the field, at the event and away from it, one is definitely an inspiration to those around them. The other might be.

Blake

KathieK 15-10-2007 06:21

Re: [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robosteve (Post 646086)
Can't believe the season has already started and they havent told teams if they can qualify to go to Atlanta or not, but thanks for the answer. Is this the same for teams doing FLL or FRC, do they not know how they can or can't qualify for Atlanta either? Seems teams should know this stuff by the time the game is announced?

Some things are just beyond control and we have to learn to be patient (something I am very very bad at).

Quote:

Doesn't sound like it matters for our team anyway since it looks like they cancelled the event here in Worcester this year.
You have the opportunity to compete in the Savage Soccer tournament at WPI (kickoff is this weekend) and at QCC's event also (both not FIRST). You have two official FIRST Tech Challenge Championship Tournaments within an hour's drive of Worcester. All four events are great opportunities for your new team!

robosteve 16-10-2007 17:09

Re: [FTC]: Possible Change in Selection Process for Nationals
 
I agree - just seems that the qualifying rules should be announced for FTC if they are announced for FLL and even FRC. Seems like thats something that FIRST should have decided over the summer - not now. Shouldn't teams know if they can qualify for a Championship at an event before the decide what to register and pay for? I know its not all about winning and all, but if we have a choice and have to pay, I'd want to know if we can qualify to advance or not.


Quote:

Originally Posted by KathieK (Post 646140)
Some things are just beyond control and we have to learn to be patient (something I am very very bad at).


You have the opportunity to compete in the Savage Soccer tournament at WPI (kickoff is this weekend) and at QCC's event also (both not FIRST). You have two official FIRST Tech Challenge Championship Tournaments within an hour's drive of Worcester. All four events are great opportunities for your new team!



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