Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Well the title says it all. How many people do you have on your team and how many of them actually work?

For us, well, we have around 15 members of which 3-5 work hard on the project and the rest just eats pizza and don't contribute much.

It may sound kind of rude, but it would be nice knowing how the other teams work out.

Oh and please post how many people you have on your FIRST team.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

You just gotta love the slackers, eh? :rolleyes:

I love my team!

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Well all the engineers are always working. PR, however, not so much. We run out of things to do, so it generally becomes "hey clancy let me drive your car" or "oh man! vinyl machine! window stickers!" pretty quickly. I mean, when we work we do a whole lot and I do a good bit as the overall director of PR, but we certainly have a good bit of downtown to go trying out new taco bell meals.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

There's an old saying that applies pretty well to most reasonably sized FIRST teams that goes "20% of the people do 80% of the work".

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Sounds like the life of a PR student is extremely arduous. :rolleyes:

Eh, programming is pretty much the same thing. You can't really do much until the team finishes building the robot. Of course, we like to contribute to the process, but as programmers, we find little to do besides brainstorming and investigating neat concepts before the robot is finished.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

I agree 100%.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

What do you mean by work? There are students that do spend all of their time on robot stuff and then there are students who design posters and work with spirit that don't do as much robot stuff due to their own choices.

Also I have to agree with Sean and his saying of 20% of people doing 80% of the work because I have witnessed it.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

From the 2007 team, we had 30 students. At the beginning they all worked. Then they complained and got bored and come crunch time, maybe 7 were full out working on the robot or anything for that fact.

2008 team, however, looks to be VERY promising for Team 102 - a returning number of about 20-25 students with at least 14 new members who seem to be VERY dedicated as of now.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

This year it's starting to look bad for us. we're barely 4 working people on the team. I bet y'all we'll make it to the nationals though.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

I define Work as the availability and willingness to help the team achieve the different goals.

If a person does not tie a single screw, but is always cheering for the team, getting sponsors and caring about all the members; he is working a ton!

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

PR- because engineers can't write.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

115 has a huge team, as of this past season, we had 90+ members, and we expect to have at least that same amount this year.
And you guys don't know how relieved I am to hear that so many teams suffer from the same problem.
I can't exactly pinpoint the percentage of members that are dedicated to the team, since Engineering works separate from Operations.
But anyways, our huge problem is that our Electrical division don't have enough to do while they wait for the Mechanical division to build the robot. So when we do need them, they're gone!:(

I agree with that 100%! :p

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Heh heh this is funny.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Last year: 10 students, and about the same in mentors (maybe more). Actually working: All. Maybe not all the time, but everyone worked. Programming, training freshmen, Chairman's, weight, wiring, painting, machining, organizing the tools (again)...What else is there to do?

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

I'd say 90% of the people on my team contribute in some way. Over the last two years we have all worked really well together.

However... Team 100 suffers from a very strange and difficult to define dilemma. I'm not sure if other teams have this same problem but it is something I have come to see as a major issue for team 100.

No one wants to design anything... What I mean by that is, 99% of the students want to be told what to do, and given careful instructions. They want to work in the shop and learn to use the tools... But almost none of them want to contribute to the design process.

I'm rather ashamed to say it, but I almost single handedly designed last year's robot. If it hadn't been for our dedicated mechanics mentor I would have had to design alone :( .

Hopefully more people will step up this year...

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Crunch time rolls around, about 10 people working on robot-related things, maybe 3-5 on non-'bot related things (posters, buttons, etc).

That's on a team of easily 60+ people right now, I anticipate that the team will half in the next coupleomonths.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

That applies to life in general.
Like Dean said "Life isn't fair."

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Have you considered that perhaps the new members hang back and don't do much cause the older members know what to do and how its done and the new members are scared of being in the way or messing something up. :confused:

For someone new to it all... it might be hard to jump into the mix especially when the time gets short. Build season not the best of time to take a new member by the hand and teach them what and how to do it.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

My point is that, if people really want to work, they'll do everything in their grasp to help the cause and get involved. At one point all of the members were new to the team, and that did not stop us from getting involved and getting our hands dirty.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

This is why we started our second team. We typically had about 45 students, 15-20 new members. Many were afraid to step in and work. We now have a team for veterans and a team for our rookies. Building 2 different robots keeps everyone busy all season.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Lol my team has anywhere from 35-50 official members (pay dues and show up for madatory meetings) But only about 10 of us actually show up to work more than 5 days in the build season. I think this year it may be even worse because we lost some of our deticated seniors.

Our team is broken down something like this

2 programmers
1 electrical guy
5 build people
2 PR like people
1 or 2 people that just come and do whatever they can

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

We had, by regional time, around 15-20 members. They all pretty much worked during the build season. We tend to make cuts if members aren't showing up or aren't contributing. For the most part though, if kids come to the meetings, they are put to work.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Pretty much the entire team works during build season. Of course, there are some that do more than others, but everyone does work.

The offseason is a whole new story, though.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Our off-season results in almost 0 work because we meet only once a week, but that's another story.

During build season we usually have about 30-35 people show up at the beginning, by mid-season we have, I'd say, about 15 people actually doing work.

I think this year will be different, though I can't guess exactly how it will be different. We now have more new people than we do returning people, we haven't run into this situation since the team started. In the past we've had, at most, 6 new people in a year.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

I said 75%, but by the end of build season it is really 100% - the rest have been asked to leave the team...

Not everyone works on the robot - there are so many things to do.

Don

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

We're at about 40 members this year with about 15 of those new members. Over the years we have done a much better job spreading out the labor. Sure there are those few that are there everyday and do a lot, but we also rely heavily on the others that come in wanting to help and just need some direction. I doubt it's 100% on any team, but I think if you get more students to actually turn out a product (whether it be a robot part or Banner Graphix or program algorithm), you'll get better effort and buy in by more students.

For those of you who say only a handful of students build the robot.... Don't let that continue!! If the robot is built by the same few members each year, your team will never grow substaintially and won't have a large impact on your school/community which is what FIRST is about. Find ways for more students to be involved and celebrate what they get done.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Management is the difficult part of the job.....

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

out of a team of 15-20 people, i would say only one or two do little or no work, and two or three aren't extremely committed. most everyone else works their butts off six days a week during build season, but with such a small team, that is how we have to be. our mentors rarely actually work on our robot, and when they do, it is usually something like welding or harder programming. last year we actually asked our mentors to leave our pit because it was too crowded.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Obviously, a goal is to get everyone on the team to be productive. Each team has some members who do much more than others, and that is ok. At the same time, there are members who do a few things... and that is ok also.

2 problems arise with this:

1. Some students appear to not care to be productive at all. This could be the result of different things. It could be because they just don't want to work... but it could also be because they have very low confidence in doing the job and they would rather see a more experienced person do this duty. They may actually WANT to do something, but they are scared to screw it up... so they don't say anything.

2. The people who are always doing things tend to just "get er done" when the pressure is on. They don't take the time to teach the inexperienced (and shy) team member to do the job. This teaching is easiest to do before the FIRST season starts, when the pressure is on. But, it can still happen during the build season. If these productive people can find patience and still teach the less experienced members to do things, then the less experienced members become more confident and productive. The end result is a more productive team.

If a team has non-productive members, the responsibility lies on the mentors and the student leaders to get these people to be more productive. You can just blame them for not working. In their eyes, they don't want to screw something up because they see the more experienced (or more ambitious) members do a good job.

I can honestly say that the TechnoKats team has had all of our members be productive for many years. Of course, some are more productive than others.

Andy

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Hear hear.

Much like everything else in life, you get out of Robotics exactly what you put into it. If one is along the sidelines, the view is nice but there's not a whole lot of unity. If one is in the mix, the experience, pride, and teamwork rise exponentially. It is each member's decision how much he or she contributes to the team, and in what fashion they contribute.

That being said, we're at about 30% of members coming to every meeting and contributing at every opportunity.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

In 2007, we had bout 10 out of like 30 do all the work but this upcoming season in 2008 looks good for our team 457 we had bout 35 on our team and bout half are new and seem to be really into it. i cant wait!!!

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

I think our whole team works because the ones who don't work usually don't show up and arent considered part of the team after it happens consecutively. Otherwise we are a small enough team that everyone has to work.

-vivek

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

We are a small team as well, but only a few of the members are willing to work during the whole build season.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

This is true for the first 80% of the time from my experience in academia and industry, regardless of how motivated a group is. Often times in the beginning when ideas are being thrown around there's little work to actually do, or some work is dependent upon other work to be completed first. If you don't have an idea, then sometimes you just don't have an idea or someone else thought of it first ... not much you can do there.

I agree that managing a team is a really tough job because a good manager somehow keeps everyone semi-busy even when they're "part of the robot" isn't ready to be worked on yet. I'd say the last 1-2 weeks of this past build season 100% of the students touched their part of the robot for several hours a day.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

Our team has about 35 members, but only about 10 who consistently show up at every meeting. Those 10 people just happen to be lead mechanical, electrical, programming, and/or leadership people, who feel it is necessary to do their work at the meetings with the team. But that's not to say that only 10 people work. Others contribute a lot, but may not come to every meeting. Our publicity/public relations team does a lot of work in the community, so they might be working somewhere else during meeting time, or putting in a lot of hours at other times. Our spirit team does a lot of work in people's houses, since they sewed capes, painted banners, worked on posters; all things that are easier done in a house than a workroom crowded with tools. The strategy team puts in a lot of hours at home, because reading the rule book and generating ideas can be done at other times that meeting times, as well. The drive team practices at a location other than our school, where we meet regularly. But we still all work hard at our given specialties, even if we're not all around at the same time. Everyone has to find their own balance between robotics and school, and it is done in a unique way. Just because one person is working differently than another doesn't mean they're not working.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

hopefully we will have new blood this year

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

We started with nearly 20 people. Then about five of them dropped out. By the second meeting we were down to less than ten. Out of those 10, eight of us truly worked on the robot and all the aspects of the team. I don't mean "they looked like they did nothing but was actually sending out PR letters". These individuals truly did nothing but take up space and food, not to sound aggressive. We still got work done, though. Those who were into it applied themselves every night and didn't care.

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

This is one of my favorite quotes of all time-

I agree that some new ones are simply too shy to ask, like three of our freshmen last year, or would prefer to not skewer things for the team, as I was freshman year (Junior now- cry! :( It seems like so little time left!).

I think about the members of our team who are so crucial during build season and competition, but this team not exist in two years if people don't work during the "Off-Season." Funny, because from April to Cal Games we work for Cal Games and side projects, and now we have just under two months until the Season begins again. Ah, the build season. What? Sleep? What is this strange substance you speak of?

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

35 on the team 5 of which work... 34 of which are seniors... i am the only junior ;)

Re: Members per team vs members who actually work
 

The team I was on in high school had alot of people on the team (40+) and a pretty small shop, so it gets crowded fast. We tried to the best we could,

And in order to get the newer kids more involved, we try to spend the preseason teaching the new kids (and returning kids who want to learn) how to work the machines and/or electronics; stuff like that so they can be helpful when build season comes around