**FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Greetings Teams!

As FIRST continues to grow we are exploring ways to better accommodate increased numbers of teams. To that end we are planning to use the 2008 FRC Connecticut Regional as a prototype for a "Double Regional". The "Double Regional" will essentially be two FRC Regionals, conducted in two halls under the same roof, during the same weekend (3/13 - 3/15). This event structure allows FIRST to accommodate more teams while still providing those teams with the same award opportunities that would be provided at a single, regional competition.

Teams who register for the 2008 FRC Connecticut Regional would be randomly selected to participate at one of the two Regional Events. Both of the Regional Events would qualify for the 2008 Championship and all FRC Regional awards.

We encourage teams that have an interest in playing at the 2008 FRC Connecticut Regional to register now so that we can plan for a "Double Regional". Teams will be notified in mid-November when there is a final decision made as to whether or not FIRST will be conducting the 2008 FRC Connecticut Regional as a single or double event.

Go Teams!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Oh... wow... well... that's... umm... new. lol

So.. if I understand this correctly, it won't be a Super regional with teams meeting at the end from both fields on one field to decide a winner, but be two seperate events which just happen to be under the same roof?

Kind of like a mini Championship event setup... minus the finals at Einstein.

Wow... very intriguing. :cool:
I'm relieved I won't have to scout 70 teams at least in Hartford now. lol

Where does FIRST do revolutionary stuff?

IN DA CUTTT!!!! :D

I'm all for the Double Regional. :)


Now we just need cool names from Science history for the fields (maybe even from the Nutmeg state.)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I'm psyched. I believe we get more rounds this way. Nice Idea :cool:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

This is really good idea. The CCC has tons of floor space, but not enough height. Which meant that it was very crowded in the bleachers. This should help out a lot.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I think this would kind of be disappointing

A big part of where teams choose to go includes the teams that normally attend the event, or those that choose to do so in a given year.

I would be really disappointed if I went to an event to play with Wildstang, Beatty, the Thunderchickens, 1114, etc (insert any teams that you'd like to play with here) only to end up in the second regional while they're in the first.

I do agree it's nice that it would get you more rounds, and there's 2x the awards per weekend, but wouldn't it be simpler to just run two fields and have a super regional?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

The Kentfield's are PSYCHED! :D
Teams can be part of FIRST history by coming to the inaugural Double Regional - but only if enough teams sign up so they can split it! C'mon over to Connecticut, we'll have a great time!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Sounds Like a pretty cool idea to me. With the number of teams in NY and NE it would be nice to have another regional, but I wouldn't know where to host it. I believe Long Island, and New Hampshire are already full and Boston nearly so. This will give teams with moderate budgets the option to attend two regional events :) And the double awards is big because some of the awards (chairman's and engineering inspiration) are almost locked up at Connecticut as it stands.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I think that I would rather a super regional. The double awards could pan out to be a good idea but you don't need a double regional to decide on two Chairman's Award winners. I much rather the varied field of play gained from a larger regional, speaking from experience of both small and large regionals. The only downside to a large regional is the greater competition to the choice awards and the relatively small number of qualifying rounds. These could be solved with double awards and a double field setup.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

We're coming, we're coming...

It will be a "Super" Regional!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I like this idea a lot!! Yet as Cory said it may end up being dissapointing for some teams who want to play with / against certain teams. I think it would be better as a super regional al though I think there should be two winners just like there should be two of every award. The final two teams that face off at the end should both be awarded chances to go to Atlanta!. Just MHO.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I agree that I'd rather see a Super Regional with two times as many awards as a "Double Regional."

What if CT1 is field resetting slower than CT2 and finishes the day an hour later? That sure makes the team social dynamic a bit odder. What if CT2 finishes eliminations first, because CT2 is going to lots of rubber matches? Will the awards be held on separate fields?

It seems like a lot of the opportunity for extra excitement is lost by splitting the event in two.

I'd like to see the "ultimate showdown" between the champions of CT1 and CT2, even if just for bragging rights. I'd be just like divisions at Nationals, where they'd represent your field, and even if they beat you earlier, goshdarnit you want them to beat the other guys.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Show what do you name double fields in Connecticut?

Since it'll be a circus, how about Barnum & Bailey

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Two regionals under one massive roof! All I have to say is, you better get in on this one...

Think of the possibilities folks. The sky is the limit on CT this year.

Midwest...I'm calling you out. You want to prove you are the best? CT 08 is where to do it.

I know I'll be there! ;)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

LOL, how about Nutmeg and Constitution?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

This seems like a really good idea for an area like New England, where many teams are within a relatively short driving distance of the same venue.

Today there are 28 teams registered -- not enough to split the event. In about a week that should change.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Actually two separate registrations seem the most fair in my opinion. Why not be able to register for either A or B?

WC

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Hopefully the two fields would be close to each other so one could watch both events from the same seats. Just stagger the match times, while teams are setting up on one field, other teams would be playing on the second. I do think it would need to have super championship round with the two winning alliances squaring off, even if just for fun :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

There are many reasons I am sure, but most of all it is a fun twist! Seriously, think long and hard about a randomly drawn event. The posibilities of how to go about that are endless! For just the show alone, that would be worth the price of admission.

This promises to be an amazing event this year. I highly encourage teams from inside and especially outside of New England to get involved. There are sure to be lots of suprises in store. Not to mention this would be the first time a two field regional would take place in the US.

Also, dont forget, if you can't bring your team and be a part that way, you can volunteer! With two regionals side by side, that means we need twice the manpower to make the magic happen. This could be your oportunity to really see what goes on behind the scenes at a major FIRST event.

Either way, you do not want to miss history in the making! Whether you are from New England, the Midwest, the South, California, or beyond...come be a part of this amazing event!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Sounds incredible. Good luck to all teams who compete. We would consider coming, however our "home regional" is during the same weekend, and we can't miss it.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I'm not sure the team can make it this year, we're talking about going to more than one regional, but I don't know if we're starting that yet. If any other team is going from Ohio though, I'd love to volunteer at the event.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

random!?! why do i have a feeling that say teams 121+126 were both there that they wouldnt be in the same "regional" same as 236+237...

1-a
2-b
3-a
4-b

thats all i can think of right now which would be very very dissapointing...

also you have to think that means its only going to be a regional of 35 teams... thats a really small regional compared to most... why would you want to do that!?!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I expect that FIRST is going to continue their Qualifying Match team selection process from last year (1st third; middle third; last third; by team number) for each regional. I hope FIRST at least will make the field assignments randomly within each of the "thirds". That would provide relatively equal competition, and the opportunity to compete with old friends. ;)

As for there being only 70 posted openings, FIRST routinely reserves spots at Regionals for rookie teams. There may be up to 20 reserved spots, which could go to waitlisted veteran teams if rookie teams don't sign-up.

Speaking of Rookies at Regionals, if your Rookie team thinks they can swing the cost of travel to Championships, Connecticut is the place to come to qualify. There are no 2008 Rookie teams signed up yet, and there will be 2 Rookie all-star "Golden Tickets" to Atlanta up for grabs. Not to mention the terrific opportunity to participate in a historic event, with some historically great competition. :cool:

By the way, RAGE 173 will be definitely there. :yikes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

The 1999 Johnson & Johnson Regional had two fields. :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

For any teams thinking about coming to the East Coast for this event, consider coming a few days early and do a college tour while you are here. There are something like 50 colleges and universities within easy driving distance of Hartford, some of whom offer FIRST scholarships to FRC and FTC members! :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Can anyone think of the REAL reason FIRST is doing a double regional in CT?

I know............it's to give teams other than Techno Ticks attending the CT Regional a shot at Chairmans!! They have won it, what, 17 years straight??:D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I suspect they will NOT. Please search for the threads about match scheduling algorithms.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

::sigh:: goofy technicalities...

Pre 2000, all regionals were double field regionals :p

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Heh. It's interesting that FIRST abandoned that model, only to return to it eight years later.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

We are very excited about the opportunity to host a Double Regional at the 2008 Connecticut Regional.

I would like to take the opportunity to address some of the comments and concerns that have been posted here over the past few days.

For starters, we are going to do everything we can to make this an exciting event for all teams (and hopefully, your team will be there, after all we have 70+ pit spaces to fill!). This is a big learning experience for everyone, so we would appreciate your understanding as we all try to learn as much as we can with this new "Double Regional" model. FIRST has experience with a Double Field event as has occurred in Toronto in the past. However, this is the first time that FIRST has tried to run two Regionals independently and simultaneously under the same roof. We all feel confident that this new model will be successful, and will help FIRST better understand how to support the ever increasing number of FRC teams. The ultimate goal is to ensure that the events are run with the high quality and professionalism that teams, sponsors and the public have come to expect from the Connecticut Regional and of all Regionals throughout FIRST.

Now, to the comments and concerns:

1) This is not a "Super Regional," as some have come to describe the double field Toronto event, rather a "Double Regional." This means that there will be two events operating simultaneously and independently that just happen to be next to each other. Picture everything that it takes for one regional and just copy and paste it!

2) What about awards? Each field/regional will have their own set of judges and awards.

3) What about noise between the two fields? We are working with the production and event management companies to reduce the sound leakage between the fields. Of course, if you all are really really loud (which I hope you will be), it will make our job even more challenging.

4) What if one field finishes before the other? Yes, this can happen. However, for the past few years we have been working very hard to ensure that the matches run as close to the published match time schedule as possible (+/- 5-10 minutes). We will continue with this challenge. Afterall, we dont want any team to miss their match because we are running really really early.

5) Will the Regional Champions on each field be able to play each other? We sure hope so. The Regional Planning Committee is looking at the possibility of having a Match of the Champions, of sorts... There are some details that need to get worked out, but we are trying to find a way to make this happen! Will it mean anything in terms of official FIRST awards? No, just really good bragging rights!

6) After the Regional is over, then what? Well, we clean up, and start looking at what worked and what didn't work, and whether or not this is a good model for Regionals to support the growth of the FRC program. As we have in the past, we will ask all teams participating in the Connecticut Regional to submit their comments and suggestions. We will use all the team submittals, along with notes from the event management team, production team, Regional Planning Committee members, key and other volunteers, to develop lessons learned and an action and improvement plan for future events.

I hope this addresses your questions. If I missed any, please let me know and I will do my best to answer them. However, keep in mind that I do not and cannot speak for FIRST HQ and the FRC Program. I can only speak for myself and for the Connecticut Regional Planning Committee.

I truly hope that you and your team will be able to come to Connecticut to compete at the 2008 Connecticut Regional.

2008 Connecticut Regional: Double the Regional...Double the Fun!
-mike

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

the only thing wrong *from what i've seen from video footage* is that it was just ONE regional not 2 in the same building... wasn't the old J&J like the "super" regionals of today???

/shrug please correct me if im wrong...

but regardless i will be there =D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I'm not familiar with the venue in Connecticut, but have had experience with the Toronto "Super Regional". I have to say that I really, really like it when GTR is a two-field super-regional, as there is no delay between matches... when you sit down in Hershey Centre to watch the finals on Saturday afternoon there is constant action all afternoon. Nothing against other regionals, but having the Chevy and Pontiac fields going one after the other is fabulous. And that is without mentioning the fact that there has been CONSTANT action for the previous two days, as well.

Because the playoffs run faster this way, the GTR organizers have adapted by allowing 12 teams to pick alliance partners, and then giving the top four alliances a "bye", ensuring that teams that would likely earn a spot in the playoffs at a smaller regional still get to play. I seem to recall that more than once an underdog #10 or #11 alliance has made a serious run for the championship.

And needless to say, because all the matches are in one arena, that arena gets PACKED and LOUD when the teams come up to watch.

I haven't tried a "double regional" (well, no one has, have we?) but feel that it would miss out on the intensity of the action one gets at GTR when it goes dual-field. While I realize the choice for a double regional over a super regional may be influenced by a number of factors such as venue layout, I would be very dissapointed if the driving factor were to simply be so that there would be some justification for doubling the number of the awards.

So my vote is pretty clearly in favour of the super regional concept when possible but it isn't like a double regional would be a bad thing... just perhaps not quite as intense. There is a reason that the super regional is called "super".

Jason

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Actually, in 2004, the first year of the Super Regional at GTR, there were 16 alliances in the eliminations rounds. In 2006, the second GTR Super Regional (2005 was a standard regional), it was scaled back to 12 alliances.

As for doubling up of awards, in 2004 and 2006 the following awards were doubled up: Imagery, GM Industrial Design, Motorola Quality, Spirit and Rookie All-Star.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Connecticut is ideal for this new double concept and not good for the super regional because it is a convention center not an arena. Connecticut has a large room like the pits in Atlanta with more floor space than an arena. Bleachers are set up around the field(s). The pits are in the same room right next to the field(s). It's easy to get on and off the field so you do not have to cue a long time in advance of your rounds. Having more than 40 teams (on a field) makes the bleachers extremely crowded, so the double field allows more bleacher space for more teams.

This sounds like a good experiment, right now most of the other North Eastern regionals are full.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

:cool:

BE THERE !!!

:cool:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Or be square?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

It'll be nice if there is a "fun round" where the winners from both regionals play against eachother though... at the very end of the day on Saturday.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Maybe the bragging rights round(s) could be interleaved with awards ceremonies? Like they've tried on Einstein in recent years. A little robot action makes it easier to sit still for speeches. ;)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

It would be a pretty cool experiment to designate one event the "tough" event and the other as the "laid back" event. Let teams make their choice, and see what they prefer...

It would be a way to see what the teams really want.

You'd get some of those teams who want to test themselves against the best, on the field named "grrrrr." And on the "kumbaya" field, you get the teams who are there to learn and have fun.

You'd have to respect the young team who goes up against the big boys, and you'd have to razz the experienced team who tries to be a ringer (pun intended) in the shallow end of the pool.

Ken

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

At what number of teams are they going to split to double regionals? Also what is the max number of teams? Sorry if I missed it.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

There are 70 slots. First has not announced how many it will take to do the double. Announcement in November.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Though I am not sure of the exact number that the CT RPC has set forth, I can tell you that 70 is a key number. This is why reaching out to those beyond the scope of New England is so important. I'm not sure if they set out a max number either. I would assume that it would be 70 plus any spots that have been put aside.

Either way, this is a very important regional for the direction of competitions in the future. If this regional happens as planned, it is a big deal for EVERYONE...not just New Englanders.

I want to see the big guns out here! Midwest, West, South, New York region...I'm calling you all out! I've been flapping my gums for years about how New England is the big cheese of regions...come try to prove me wrong! ;)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Samuel Colt Inventor and founder of the Colt firearm company; born in Hartford.
Charles Goodyear Inventor of vulcanized rubber; born in New Haven.
Mary Kies, The first woman to receive a US patent, received on May 15th, 1809 for a method of weaving straw with silk; from South Killingly.
Robert N. Hall, demonstrated the first semiconductor laser, and invented a type of magnetron commonly used in microwave ovens. He also contributed to the development of rectifiers for power transmission. He was born in New Haven, Connecticut.
Edwin Herbert Land, born in Bridgeport, CT, was an American scientist and inventor. Among other things, he invented inexpensive filters for polarizing light, instant polaroid photography, and his retinex theory of color vision.
Kenneth Harry Olsen, born in Stratford, CT, is an American engineer who co-founded Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) in 1957. In 1977, he infamously quipped, "there is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home".

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I vote for naming the fields after Hall and Land.

And there needs to be an Olsen Award, for the quote most likely to be ridiculed ten years later.
[Good luck to the Judges deciding who gets that one.:) ]

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Derailing this thread, why would anyone want to make straw from silk? Just go cut some wheat and you'll have all the straw you need.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

It helped in making bonnets for working in the fields.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kies

--
To name fields after scientists and inventors from the venue area is so cool. It would give folks an opportunity to learn more about these people, bringing some of them out of obscurity.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Don't forget that J Willard Gibbs, "The greatest thermodynamicist of them all" was born and worked in New Haven CT (Yale). Without his work in mathematical Physics and Chemistry modern science might still be stuck in the 19th century.

Also of note is Igor Sikorsky, pioneering aircraft and Helicopter designer who spent most of his most productive years in CT.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I like Colt and Goodyear as choices for field names, as they are both recognisable names for most people. But here are a few more famous people from Connecticut that might make good field names:

Eli Whitney - inventor of cotton gin
P. T. Barnum - the Barnum and Bailey circus
J. P. Morgan - banker/financier during Industrial Revolution

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Our Connecticut FIRST web site has been updated with the latest information on the 2008 Connecticut Regional.

Check it out!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Great website! Keep up the great work!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

33 teams are confirmed and 11 more are pending for Connecticut as of this morning. Certainly this will be a good sized single regional at least -- but it sure would be cool if another couple dozen teams sign up and make it a double regional! :)

Unfortunately, my team will not be one of them. :(

We discussed it, and many were in favor of making the long trek (1100 miles), but in the end travel costs simply put the idea out of our reach.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I hope after they have done the finals, they allow the teams from the two fields to compete- like a mini Championship.

http://uberbots.org/2008/news.php?newsArt=34

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Michael Sperber
Chair, FRC Connecticut Regional Planning Committee
FIRST Senior Mentor (CT) (2005-2007)
CT FIRST @ www.ctfirst.org

had this to in and earlier post:

"5) Will the Regional Champions on each field be able to play each other? We sure hope so. The Regional Planning Committee is looking at the possibility of having a Match of the Champions, of sorts... There are some details that need to get worked out, but we are trying to find a way to make this happen! Will it mean anything in terms of official FIRST awards? No, just really good bragging rights!"

I sure would like to see enough teams sign up so this can happen. Maybe some old friends and rivals who haven't been to Hartford in a while could come back and join the fun :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

If anyone is still looking for a second regional to attend, the CT regional still has 33 team slots open (with only 8 teams pending). This should be a fun event this year. There is plenty of things to do around the Hartford area. Any team in the north east should consider coming to this regional.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Hi Folks!

Assuming all the pending teams hold up for the 2008 Connecticut Regional, we are only 16 teams away from filling the event, virtually assuring that the regional will go double! I assure you, this event will not dissapoint...so sign on up!

I'm also very dissapointed to see that no teams from outside of the New England, New York, New Jersey area have signed up. This is your chance to come out to the Northeast and show us what you are made of (and possibly force me to shut my mouth!)

Come support the future of FIRST events by taking a test drive in what could be a staple of FIRST events in the future.

Double the Fun...lets go!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

Has there been any talks about whether or not this is going to be attempted again in '09?

P.S. Sorry about the revival.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/2008 FRC Connecticut "Double Regional"
 

I've heard that FIRST has said they are laying plans for three double regionals in 2009.
I imagine Toronto, NYC, and maybe Connecticut since they already have the space for it.
VCU, NJ, and Great Lakes were pretty full regionals this year too and have the potential to go double as well.

Final word will be based on registration and venue probably.