What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

The title asks the question-

what do YOU think is the answer?


WC :cool:

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Money. Never enough.

The perception is that this is a school program and the schools should be paying for it. We do have terrific sponsors, but it does not cover the costs.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Global Warming ;)

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

ill second that, just the entry cost for the competitions is outragous, if we could either find a way for that to go down or the amount of money that sponsors are giving to go up, we would be set.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

No matter how much money you have.... you never have enough.... human nature.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

yah money...or space.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

i agree with money...we have an excellent sponsor (www.netmedia.com) and though we were ok but then unexpected shipping fees, tournament costs, etc....

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Money is a big problem, but I'm going to say lack of quality mentors. It's hard to get them (harder than getting money, in some cases), it's hard to keep them, and they're usually critical to a team's success.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Apathy.

Do you know that only about 1% of 18-24 year olds get a degree in science, math or engineering? Thus 99% of the U.S. population rely on the 1% for maintaining our technological and scientific benefits.

In a like manner, principals, school boards, student bodies are not really familiar with the excitement and benefits of a FIRST program. They see other priorities like drop out rates, security, graduation rates, and fulfilling federal and state requirements.

Our job is to expose them to the issues and encourage them to support extracurricular academic activities (like FIRST). The money issues are just a symptom of the public apathy towards science, engineering and mathematics.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Turnover.

This is the first year that I think our team has really felt it, but we only have 6 or 7 returning members with about 30-40 incoming freshmen and first year sophomores.

It must be so hard as a mentor who has worked with a team for a number of years, to get to know students really well, and develop relationships and start to depend on certain students to benefit the team, and the all of the sudden, they are gone and you start all over again.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

I would have to say keeping the program runnning in general. It's hard to start the program at your school or whatever but I think it's harder to maintain and keep the program running because of sponsors/funding and school adminstration or whatever fighting against or for it. I say sponsors because they're putting a lot of money in and sometimes they expect results out of the team because I know some sponsors that don't feel right about funding a team that would just fail. School administration because they expect results as well. I know some teams that have to win some kind of award next season in order to have that kind of proof saying that the team is not in operation to fail but to succeed and bring back something as proof. Unfortunately for my team, two trophies(Colorado Regional and General Motors Industrial Design) didn't outweigh other reasons.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Money, Students, and Mentors.

Good sponsors can help the first, the school's never paid anything for us really so we rely heavily on fund raising.

My freshman year we had a team of 18 people. The next year we had about 10. We're trying alot more recruitment now so we don't have a drop like that again.

Mentors are almost always in short supply. The local college gives us some money as a sponsor, but even though we try to get college students to come down and join/help/have fun with us they never seem to have the time. Even the ones who already were in FIRST. We also have some mentors who really needed to learn how to step back and let us do the work. They wanted to do it themselves. We also had a massive falling out with our mentors, there was a fight between two and they left the team. Thus, no more faculty member or electrical engineering mentor, as well as a couple of the mechanical mentors leaving. We almost didn't come back from that.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

I agree. Money will always be an issue, but it is of no use if there aren't any students to be inspired. Every team will face a cycle where there will be a lot of graduating seniors one year, and then lots of freshmen/new members the next, or even very little new members the next year. It'll probably take a while for a team to learn their balance of members to ensure that knowledge is passed down each year. Often, many seniors go off to college with 4 years of experience without transferring their skills to someone younger, thus leaving behind an unexperienced team. In reality, many veteran teams seem to start over as "rookies" after a few years. It surely feels that way this year.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Money is our biggest problem. Though it is also due in large part a problem because of our second problem, turnover. We have about six very experienced members and two or three one year members, along with some incoming kids from all grade levels so it is tough to really get out there and present to our sponsors and potential sponsors.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

I can't even get to where money is a problem. I'm trying to persuade our educators and administrators that this is a good thing, but they don't want to deal with anything else (so it seems). The good teachers that would likely be great help are already committed to other things like Science Olympiad or Odyssey of the Mind.

I fear we would not have adequate resources if we try to start a team without our school (like a place to work, tools, computers, etc.)

Roger

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Im going to say students. not only is it critical to have students participate but also do what they say they will. we've had problems with this in the past. and I also think that might be because of FIRST compared to other academic activities: there is waay more minimum effort involved.

-vivek

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

We always ask the NEMs at our general NEMO meetings, what are your team's top three concerns? Consistently the top answer is Mentor Recruitment and Retention. Number two is consistently fundraising and recruiting sponsors. Number three varies.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

What he said ^^

Money is an issue, but it can be managed. Once you get past the first level of funding - the entry fee and one or two thousand for supplies - a team can scrimp, save. beg/borrow/redirect to make it happen. After that it's sophistication and depth.

No mentors leaves a complex process to inexperienced help - design and fabrication - and tends to discourage rather than inspire.
Not enough mentors leaves the mentors overwhelmed and burned out quickly.

I know that many engineers would enjoy helping; but we can't seem to figure out just how to get them there the first time. After that, they'll be hooked, I'm sure.

Don

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

On a side note, our team had one new freshman last year, we have 30 this year, and could have as many as 40 next year as our 30-ish VEX teams have former students now entering the high school.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

As we often hear, "FIRST is hard to sell, but if you get them to an event, it sells itself..." that applies to mentors, sponsors, school administrators... Mike Betts and I staffed an exhibition booth at a conference today and had two rookie FTC teams help demo for us. I took the CT FIRST website calendar of FIRST events for all four programs in the New England area and made lots of copies, and handed them out all day. I can show them the promo DVD, can talk about FIRST til I'm blue in the face, but if they show up at one of our events, that's when it will all click into place. Another giveaway I usually have made up is a business card with my info on one side, and the local FIRST events listed on the other side. I give it out saying to put it on their frig at home (actual refrigerator magnets would be great, too!).

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

I think every team needs a leader with vision and a view of the big picture of FIRST so that they can then sell it to the mentors, students, administration and sponsors.

FIRST is a difficult program to grasp -

To maintain the support of adminstrators and sponsors $$ (both mentioned in other posts) it takes someone who can explain it is more than kids building a robot.

To maintain mentors it takes someone who can manage conflicts and personalities and keep eveyone moving forward.

To maintain students, it takes someone who can continue to inspire them, let them learn and grow, and let them see the benefits to them personally from being involved.

For some teams this all comes together in one person, for others it it a small core team of mentors - but i think it has to be there for a team to survive and thrive.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Communication.

Without communication there is no:
recruitment
training
requests for sponsorship/money
networking with other teams/students/mentors/businesses
ability to help
understanding
fun

It works with machines and with people.
The better the communication system, the more efficient the organization and team. From the top down and the bottom up. It takes time, patience, and focus to develop a sound communication system, making sure everyone is on the same page and keeping it that way as new members enter the team/teams/FIRST.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

While the money problem is the most obvious answer apathy, teacher support and the difficulty finding engineering support (particularly mechanical engineers) are also very real. That is why it so incredible when veteran FIRST teams can last as long as 10+ years because there are so many obstacles facing them to sustain the team year after year.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

I'm with Jane 100%

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Looks like your team is looking at 17 years and still going :) So recruiting mentors and students year after year can be done, and it is definitely worth it.

I have to agree that mentors, especially in key areas is a key to team success. We've had the biggest difficulty with electrical engineers who can help with the control system and programming, you mention mechanical engineers, other teams have mentioned teacher support. If you are missing one of these pieces its hard to field the team.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Yeah but out of the 28 teams that played with us year one there are only five left. It can be done but it's really really hard.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

All of these items listed facing FIRST teams, whether it be recruitment, money, mentor retention, student retention, or school support can be helped by a solid political plan. Like it or not, politics plays a very big role in every program. Having the backing of the school admins, the school board, the mayor or town manager, the president of your local sponsoring company, all boils down to how well you play the political game and can sell the FIRST program.

I don't want to sound like a commercial, but my co-founder (and School Committee Candidate, John Burns) and I are putting together a presentation for this years Kick Off on politics and how it affects the FIRST program. Dean has it right, get the political support and everything else comes easier. We did and Rosie is doing fine. (We still don't have enough money, but then again who does?) Look for it soon on a website near you.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Money is the top goal, with out it we can not operate. We are lucky enough to get sponsored for one event. I can not imagine what its like to go to a second event or a third let alone the travel expences. We can dig up enough for the robot thanks to FIRST putting so much of the drive system in the kit of parts. It can be trouble getting students but it depends on your goal of how many and what quality of students you want. If you are resourceful you can find the students, maybe look outside your district to nearby schools or local home school students. Invit the gear heads in to try it (some times they don't want to be seen with us geeks) if they got tast of what its about they might be interested. After years of being in the program, the FIRST program itself becomes easy to run it still always comes down to money.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Well keeping a good steady leadership is hard for college based teams with turnover not only in the highschool level but also in the college level of mentorship. Then for teams attempting to start, trying to get the initial capital and high school membership is tough.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Jane's comments are the keys to real success. Good communication can solve a host of issues.

I believe that mentors should teach, advise and assist. If mentors are suffering from burnout then they are too involved.

An issue that is just as important as funding is getting space for robot work and parts storage. Having to move from location to location make it difficult to maintain any degree of organization.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Not too involved.........they are probably not involved enough.

Get more involved in your school, in your booster club, with your students, meet their parents, meet their teachers and admins. The only way (IMHO) to avoid burnout is to replace/duplicate yourself. If you are able to do this, the load becomes lighter with better results.

I believe it was Henry Ford that said, "I wouuld rather have 1% effort from 100 men than 100% effort from 1 man."

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

I must disagree with Jane. Communication is not the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams. Communication is the biggest solution to most of the other problems.

I mostly go along with the people who say funding is the biggest problem. However, I'd modify it to consistent funding.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

The biggest problem is balancing FIRST with your personal life.....The more you do, the harder it is on the personal side. Even if money is a challenge......its out there, even on a small remote state like Hawaii. But, time is something that I seem to be fighting against day after day, and the older you get, the harder the fight.
1. Time:ahh:
2. Good consistent mentorship.:ahh:
3. Money:D
4. Good students:eek:
5. Facilities/tools/space to support the program.:ahh:

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

I just noticed that your from Kokomo, IN. I got a good friend that's from there who now lives in my neighborhood.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

I've gotta go with Chris on this one. Without a single vision for the team the limited resources get spent managing people and trying to get them all pointed in the same direction instead of managing projects, driven by the collective passion, that set the team up for success. Basically, without an agreed upon definition of success the odds of succeeding are slim.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Students is our problem.

We have had three high schools feed our team [it is a district team] and now we have four, but still we can only get around 20-30 people to stick around during the build. For three, soon to be four, 5A schools those are low numbers of participation. Some of it has to do with grades and eligibility while others have to do with time constraints and other options but still 20-30 people isn't great especially from schools with over ~2-3K+ students each.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

MONEY! Since we are a team from a very small community, it is very difficult to get additional sponsorships. We are very fortunate to have Delphi as our major sponsor, and we are very grateful for their support, but that only goes so far. They contribute only about a third of the money needed, so its up to our team to fund raise for the rest.

Second on the list would be mentors. We have lost a few mentors over the years, and it is hard to find replacements willing to devote the time needed. :eek:

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Money is not the only problem... About two years ago we had a problem finding a new sponsor after our founding sponsor found out that they could no longer sponsor our team. We as a team worked very hard to build up a team that could still "survive" even if a devastating blow like that were to happen again even if another sponsor was found. It was a sort of “back-up plan”. Sponsors are a great thing. If that is not available however, our team came up with a great "back up" plan. It is a binder that our team developed over about 2-3 months. It tells you what you should do. And now, we are back on top. But not without a price. Even with the loss that year, we managed to make it to one regional, but without being prepared, it was a grueling task to raise 6k in 3 weeks. That was two years ago. (I was a freshman). Last year, we raised enough money to make it to two regionals. As of right now for the 2008 season, we are currently signed up for 2 regionals and the Championships in ATL. So pretty much what I am trying to get at is, Commitment. That is the biggest problem. Because if we wouldn’t have had it, I can guarantee that we would not have come as far as a team as we are now. If you don’t have it, it is very hard to make a FIRST team successful. (Everyone knows the “committed” 12:00 nights that I am talking about.)

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

I think we're saying basically the same thing, Alan, I just didn't communicate my thoughts as well as I should have. You are right, communication is the solution to many problems teams face.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Last year we had a fairly large problem with communication across the entire team during the robot build season. There was the "inner loop" that included the mentors, faculty, and about 5 students that were always at every meeting as well as working on bits of robot outside the meetings. The outer loop were those that didn't even know our strategy for the game, or couldn't tell you anything about our robot without looking on a sheet, etc. To be on the build team and not know or understand anything about the build is pretty .... problematic.

This year we're making students say up front that they will commit to the team. With 10 minute quizes (mult. choice, easy and funny!) at the start of a meeting that pertain to the game, robot, and individual groups' statuses we're hoping that the students will at least start to see the connection that everything has to the team rather than what their one simple task is.

Robot building aside, there are some students that the mentors never see since they always do their work from 2-5pm whereas mentors show up around 5. Typically these are the web team, students who help with fundraising, etc. Without a leader such as the one we have, those students would have next to no interest in our program and eventually get left out of the team completely -- not because they have no value, but because there is no one to bridge the gap of communication.

So in essence, I think that no matter what, the lines of communication must begin with the central leader and be refined each year. It's one of those things everyone takes for granted when it's there and greatly misses when it's not.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Communications is very important.

I am seeing another sneaky problem in this and Pavan's post. Expectations. Do we expect everyone to get the same thing out of participating? If we do I think we limit team sizes or have trouble accepting the students and adults in the "outer loop"

Food for thought :)

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

The biggest problem is desire to sleep.

If we just cut out sleeping you have plenty of time to do everything thats needed to be succesful.

Seriously however, everyone struggles with money, the harder to work to raise it, the quicker you get to your goals. But I don't think its the biggest problem, committed and qualified mentors is the biggest problem that faces most FIRST teams. There are very few teams that have enough mentors to properly train and manage perenially succesful teams. Talent level and number of students are part of success but students graduate and prayerfully go off to higher education. When they graduate it is the Mentors responsibility to prepare the next group to come through the ranks.

A dedicated mentor group is key to sustained success, and it is also what most teams, especially new ones, struggle with.

Re: What is the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams?
 

Not to sound terribly pessimistic, but I'm going to go with politics as the biggest problem faced by FIRST teams.

Although all of the other issues are certainly an obstacle, nothing has quite the destructive power that politics possess. Politics are subtle, unlike issues (like funds, students, etc.) which are out in the open to discuss and solve.

I'd like to be able to think that FIRST (both teams and as an organization) is above the personal agenda, or the grudge, or manipulation, but political questions are some of the most difficult ones to answer. What truly is best for the students? How does one balance the needs of the team/organization with the needs of individual students? How can we (as members of FIRST, or as members of a team) continue to operate as one unified group, while still respecting the thoughts and opinions of the individual?

~Allison