Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

I think we're basically in agreement then. I was concerned that you were implying that a lead inspector could decide to mandate that all teams in attendance must pass inspection (full inspection, not just safety stuff) before practicing.

I still don't like the idea of punishing teams who don't inspect early by not allowing them to be fill-ins, though, because that is essentially punishing them for something that is not against the rules. I'd prefer to handle that a little more informally (such as by approaching teams in the queue for fill-in who aren't inspected and reminding them, again, that if they aren't inspected by Friday morning they can't compete, and that if everyone waits until the last minute to get inspected then the inspectors aren't liable if they can't get them all done). Frequent reminders via the pit announcer (annoying as that can be) and the standard, unsolicited visit by robot inspectors seems good enough for me - people on these teams are old enough to make their own time management decisions, and if they choose poorly then they'll miss out on their first qualification match and will likely learn something in the process (and not let that happen again).

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

I see the reasoning behind this idea, Say teams are scheduled for 7 matches, but a max of 8 for the entire day is allowed. The team has their robot ready to go at the beginning of the day can fill early spots, a couple of their own, and theoretically be finished for the day by lunch time. After lunch, their scheduled matches become byes and teams that were not ready to go at the beginning of they day fill in the match from the filler line. This gives a better chance every team gets a near equal amount of practice without one team getting 10 matches, while another team only could make it to their last 2 scheduled matches.

However. I am in the belief that a team that has their robot best ready to go in the beginning of the morning made the best use of their six weeks. This time management skill should be rewarded by FIRST by receiving extra practice matches.

Pro to your suggestion: Option 2 could possibly be discrimination toward teams that are attending multiple regionals, say by their third regional they have all of the bugs worked out, while this same regional is another teams only regional.

I'm still in the catagory to give teams as many practices as possible. If they get out of a match and notice that the line is open for another team, they should be allowed to get back in line as many times as they wish. Great job for building a reliable robot...Only if Richard's suggestion is implemented and they have already passed inspection.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

I'm going to go option 3, with inspection. I'm not going to say that passing should be required, but inspection must be started or at least attempted. An indicator would be needed to show which robots have started/attempted to start and which have not, though. (Reason: Why make robots wait if the delay in starting inspection is not their fault?)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

Interesting... I might say that a team who shows up completely ready to go has squandered the last few hours they had to work on their robot... :p

Our team, for instance, nearly always shows up ready for practice, but not ready to inspect. We often still have to put finishing touches on, like installing bumpers, signage, drilling speed holes, etc. Why waste time during the build season doing these things if I can do them on practice day (and still be able to practice)?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

My suggestion was simply to even things out slightly. I've seen more than a few posters in this thread suggesting that option 3 will let teams that are ready get extra practice in the mornings, and the morning teams will get to make up for lost time in the afternoon, but that's simply not going to be the case, since there's going to be a flood of teams in the Fill Line in the afternoon. I understand the sentiment for rewarding teams that "made the most of their six weeks", but I don't entirely agree with it. Especially because some of those teams will inevitably be teams with little or no offense capabilities who are finished and ready to practice simply because there's not much to their robot but defense. The sad thing is that any team that's missing tons of matches in the morning will really, really need extra matches in the afternoon, but they're just not going to be there. The only real way for this to work out in favor of teams missing matches in the morning is if the other teams either voluntarily give up matches in the afternoon or if they're forced to do so.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

I'm all for option 3 but I'd like to throw something out there regarding the whole inspection for extra practice bit...


Has anyone considered that teams having problems with their robots might actually need more practice time to help them work out the bugs than a team who's robot is working perfectly?

I know there have been plenty of times for my team where it would have been nice to have a few more practice rounds to identify and fix problems, not just to let the drivers practice. I'm not saying we should prevent the teams that are ready to practice more, but I don't think we should exclude teams that can't pass inspection either.


Just a thought. ;)




Of course, you still have the inspection pile up at the end of the day... maybe we aught to give out cookies to the teams that get inspected the earliest or something :D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

All,

First of all, a robot does not have to be working perfectly to go through inspection. Many teams continue to modify their robots throughout the competition and many ask for a re-inspection on Friday or Saturday.

An inspection without bumpers or signs would still cover 99% of the "important" stuff. Even an inspection with entire subsystems missing would (1) allow greater safety for all involved on practice day and (2) help inspectors to identify teams needing help.

Putting on my team mentor hat for a moment:

If option 3 is adopted without requiring inspection, there is no way that I would allow my team to attempt inspection until there is absolutely no chance that an extra practice could be procured. Practice time is that valuable for a competitive edge.

Now putting on my head inspector's hat:

(Once again, if option 3 is adopted without requiring inspection) The prospect of having all the teams at a regional wait until 5PM to be inspected is a disaster in the making and virtually guarantees that many teams (especially rookies and teams needing extra help) will not be able to compete in their first match on Friday morning.

Given the choice of a few unfilled practice slots and teams missing matches on Friday, I cannot support option 3 without modification and would be forced to say that we must stay with option 1.

Please think about it...

Regards,

Mike

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

Ok, it's not that I'm completely stuck on my idea or anything, but if you limit a team's practice matches and they run out mid afternoon, then they'd have plenty of time to finish inspection at that point....

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

I like this idea except it add an extra level of management to the process. Someone has to keep track of how many times you have practiced. I know that could be a clipboard & a sheet of paper, but there is still room for unnecessary work.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

I've seen some queueing volunteers who do amazing things with a clipboard and a sheet of paper.;)

Seriously, I think the queuers can handle the extra responsibility that Kevin suggests.

FRC Practice Match Poll and Forum Passwords
 

Greetings Teams:

FIRST has received several calls and emails from teams who wish to participate in the Practice Match Poll, but can't remember or don't know their Q&A Forum password (your login name is simply "FRC" + your team number, i.e. FRC555).

The passwords are now available in TIMS, as they were during the 2007 season. Once logged into TIMS, you will see the password on the right hand side of your screen.

Please note that the FRC Game Q&A forum is not open yet.

If you are a rookie team and do not yet have a password provided in TIMS, please have your main or alternate contact send your team's vote to frcparts@usfirst.org, and you will be heard too!

Thank you very much for your feedback!

Go Teams!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

Thanks, Mark. It appears that a few teams have voted in the poll.

I was surprised to see that the thread apparently does not allow particpants to post -- only to choose a poll option. So there isn't a way, on the FIRST Forum, to suggest/discuss ideas other than those already listed in the poll.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

I say give out X number of tokens to each team. They hand one in when they run in a practice match. After they use up their tokens thet are done for the day.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

I like that! Then if teams want to give other teams their unused tokens, more power to them & you again, don't end up with empty practice matches.

Of course everyone will want to use them up at the end of the day

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/Practice Match Poll
 

How about giving out tokens of 3 different colors which represent different priorities. Use this to determine who gets to play in practice match slots. Here is an example:
Green Token = 1st priority
Yellow Token = 2nd priority
Red Token = 3rd priority
If a regional normally would have 3 practice matches for each team, then give out 3 green, 1 yellow and 1 red tokens. How do we use the tokens? Like this:
As teams line up for a practice match they must hand in a token to get in line. They have to decide how important it is for them to run in that match by using the appropriate priority token. If a team is originally assigned to that match, their green token takes priority over fill-in team’s green token. However, if they ran out of green tokens, then a fill-in team with a green token would have priority over them, since that would indicate that they already had their allotment of 3 matches. This would give teams who could not run early, a better chance of getting in some practice matches later. Fair – right?

To add to this, perhaps you could also say that a red and yellow token cannot be used without first getting an “Inspected” sticker. This forces fill-in teams who have not been inspected to use a green token early. Fair?