**FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

Greetings Teams:

A pilot rookie competition will be held in Flint, Michigan from March 7-8, 2008. Interested rookies may go to http://www.ketteringroboticscompetition.com for full details.

Please address any questions regarding this event to Sally Hicks at shicks@kettering.edu <http://www.ketteringroboticscompetition.com/shicks@kettering.edu>

IMPORTANT: Competing in this event does not qualify any team to attend the FIRST Championship in Atlanta.

Go Teams!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

So, this is a regional for only rookies pretty much? just without qualifying?

I like the idea, could be a good warm up for them.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

I find this highly interesting. With this announcement, FIRST is doing a lot of things they haven't done before. To my knowledge:

-Special cases like Israel and 1992 aside, FIRST has never had an all-rookie event before.
-FIRST has never sent an email blast out about an unofficial event. (There is a community events page on the FRC section that has been known to hold off-seasons, however.)
-FIRST has never supplied a field for an unofficial event anytime while events are going on. (Winter War Zone does get a field during build season to shake down.)
-There has never been an unofficial event held while robots are out of teams' hands. (Shipping should be interesting here.)

While the details are rather hazy right now, I'm liking the sound of this kind of event. Think of the possibilities...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

The first ever Rookie Regional will be held at Kettering University March 7-8, 2008.

WHERE: Kettering University in Flint
WHEN: March 7-8, 2008
COST: $500
CAPACITY: 36 Rookie Teams
FIELD: Regulation 2008 Field with 2008 Game Rules
ACCOMMODATIONS: Dorm Rooms Available for $15/night
SHIPPING COST: Free


As noted above, the cost is just $500. We have room for 36 teams. First preference will be given to the 15 Michigan rookies, and then we will welcome rookies from around the globe on a first come, first serve basis.

The event will be Friday and Saturday only, although teams may unload on Thursday evening if they wish.

Kettering has done an amazing job at helping us keep costs down. In fact they have arranged for dorm rooms to be available for a mere $15 per night. Robot Shipping will also be free.

Regulation FIRST inspections will take place the first half of the day on Friday with qualifying rounds starting in the afternoon and running until 9pm.

We will have veteran FIRST engineers on hand throughout the competition to help rookies get their robots in great shape for their big regional. Our goal is to have 36 competitive rookie robots by the end of the competition.

If you are interested in volunteering to assist our rookies please let Sally Hicks know.

Awards will be given out and there is even a possibility of a social event of some sort late Friday evening.

While just for rookies this year, this low cost event is the first step to develop an inexpensive model that can be held in local high schools anywhere as a qualifying district event. Hopefully this will prove to be a sustainable, feasible alternative as FIRST continues to grow.

A secondary goal was to give rookies, who are traditionally not as well funded as veteran teams, a second round of play for a nominal price. Providing them with an opportunity to get comfortable in the competition setting and to make improvements to their robot before they play their big event, should help ensure a successful rookie season.

If you are a rookie and would like to participate, please register online at www.ketteringroboticscompetition.com. We would love to have you!!

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me directly.

Gail Alpert
248 425-4148

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

So Billfred, have you ever been to an event in Michigan? Time to add more miles to your total, methinks. Be a part of history!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

This sounds like a GREAT idea! Too bad they didn't have one last year :rolleyes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

This sounds exactly why MI is not having a FTC event. I thought that was why FTC was created, to give high schools a low cost alternative to FRC, a sort of "farm system" if you will......interesting.:rolleyes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

As the number of FRC teams grows FIRST has become aware that the current FIRST model may not work if we had a team in every school. In Michigan, we already have three regional events and many Michigan teams still have to travel out of state to compete because our events fill up. Scheduling of the regional events is an issue, two of the Michigan events had to be back to back this year. If we are able to use high schools as venues, it opens many possibilities, including low cost events.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

FTC is different because the robots are smaller and mentors are not required. Our goal is to have FRC become a sustainable program that we can put in every high school in the country. We can't do that with the current cost structure. Regional are very expensive.

Now, if we can develop an event that will give teams the ability to compete locally AND are cost effective to run AND maintain the quality of a real regional, then we're on to something becuase we know the impact FIRST has on students. This is what we are trying to do in Michigan.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

Well, first off, as much as it sounds good, there are many reasons there will never be a FRC team in every high school, I don't care what state you're from. Even if money was taken out of the equation, personalities and other administrator's priorities cannot be.

I understand you want to help out the rookies by giving them an opportunity to shake out their designs. I think it is unfair they get to play with their robots before a regional and after ship date. Do the veterans from MI have a different ship date than the rest of the country? I think not.

While it is noble of you to think of the rookies, it would be better to provide a stronger mentoring program from the veteran teams, maybe something like the Ask An Engineer program being run by Team 125, Northeastern Univ in Boston. How about running a pre-ship scrimmage on the Sat before ship that everyone can go to? (There are 2 in New England)

I believe it's not the robot that we are building here. It is the student we are building. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

It looks like what they're trying to do is as follows:

A) minimize costs. I think the main reason teams drop out (other than fragmenting/combining) is cost. $6000 is a lot; another $4000 per event is worse for many schools (who also have to pay teachers, custodians, and administrators). Not having school support is worse. I think FIRST is trying to avoid future cost increases as much as possible.

B) level the playing field a little bit. The extra competition time pays off every year. It's better than the seeding match algorithm last year.

C) give the rookies a chance at "hardware" that is likely to go to veteran teams at any event that is not completely rookies. There is a possibility that teams will get more support if they have something to show for the support.

I'll be interested to see how this turns out. I've seen or heard of some few "power rookies" (rookies that are acting like second or third year teams, and second-year teams that act far older on the field), but they tend to be few and far between. This could increase the number of strong early teams.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

Ultimately, the money must be coming from somewhere right? Just because the venue, lodging, and shipping are all donated does not make it more cost effective. How scalable is this really?

I came from a University of Washington team that is no longer in existence because of funding (and not from a lack of trying). The few suitable sites for a full regional are prohibitively expensive on this scale. It took Microsoft, and presumably a great financial support to hold a regional in the this area at all.

I feel that working with FIRST to bring regional costs down would be more valuable then trying to add new events through a separate system. It is frustrating how expensive some of these events are, but in reality it is because there are usually huge costs associated with running an event.

If it is easy to run events where the registration fees were only $500 then why can't all existing regionals be ran this way? And if it is just in specific locations that this program works then why not create official regionals there through partnership with FIRST and the University or other organizations and then take whatever extra funds there are to sponsor rookies and provide team grants?

I agree with the intentions of this program, to encourage new rookie teams to be created and increase the likelihood of these teams developing into sustainable organizations. Leveling the playing field though? Obviously money should be a limited factor in how well a team does, but this would be effectively giving rookies an extra couple days to work on their robots over other teams only attending 1 regional. It is no good to discourage a 2+ year team that has worked hard and yet are marginalized among the rookies who have had longer to work on their machines and some field-practice time. You have to keep out some of the randomness that comes from artificially leveling the playing field in ways that are not unilateral.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

Since no teams qualify for Chairman's, I'm going to say Rookie Allstar, Rookie Inspiration, and Highest Rookie Seed awards become very competitive. :p

Who wants to do a Fantasy FIRST for this regional? Everyone picks a team by random, or funniest arrangement of numbers.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

Out of curiosity, how much of the cost we pay right now is going to pay for the regional venues? Simply switching to a high-school gym (even if we kept all the lighting, A/V, etc) might be a big money-saver. I've heard some numbers tossed around regarding some of the venue costs and those numbers were pretty big (but I don't know if they were at all accurate).

Anybody have a rough idea of the typical cost for a venue? Are we talking $1,000, $10,000, or $100,000? I'd guess it's between the last two.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Pilot Rookie Competition
 

I've heard that it's about $250,000 for a full regional. I'd guess that a lot of that is from venue costs. (The rest would be the A/V, primarily. Maybe team social as well.)