Re: pic: Game hint
 

you would.......

any way on a slightly more important note it would seem that thae fact that FedEx shipping has gone from express freight to regular freight for 2008 (hey i rymed) might have something to do with them shipping 1500 of these darned things....its on the first website if anyone hasnt taken the time to read the whole page about the shipping part of the manual beign released in december/maby the change of "grade" of shipping might be why it will be released in december.............

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Maybe we have to build a small autonomous robot that can be signaled with 4 commands.
The next 3 weeks are gonna be bad

Re: pic: Game hint
 

All of these ideas are great and funny, but our team hasn't gotten ours or I would definitely know about it. We reside very firmly in California. Also, I can't get to it from the page "FIRST Robotics Competition Documents and Updates," the page it claims to come from. Sorry, I don't trust this hint to be true. :confused:

Re: pic: Game hint
 

well, there was an email from FIRST, the link is on the first website, and a photo of it with FIRST on it...

Believe what you want but I think that this is the hint.

jm2c, vivek

EDIT: FIRST doesn't have to link it from their webpage. The url doesn't have to be provided on the page "FIRST Robotics Competition Documents and Updates," for it to be under it...

Re: pic: Game hint
 

well IR stuff hmmm.. thats crazy stuff the field is going to be sending are robots to do stuff i think..

Re: pic: Game hint
 

That's pretty believable. Maybe a part of autonomous that, when sent a certain code, they have to respond a certain way or go for the goal or whatever.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I'm making two assumptions here, and with the logic to back them up, here they are:

-This isn't going on the robot. The speak of powering it from a bench supply or AA batteries proves that.

-The robots will not be emitting IR. Think of the mess debugging that would be. The judges would all have to have cameras fixed on each robot to make sure nobody was jamming the signal for everyone.

My guess:
I'm going for some kind of human player controllable field item. The HP gets a remote, points it at the field item and presses a button. The goal may change colors, but that's about all. It won't move, as that would be terrible for teams to construct, and awful to maintain during a match. I think it has to do with a vision target, as most teams have not figured out tracking yet, and FIRST wants us to.

Hmmm...I don't know...
Whatever it is, it looks fun!
JBot (counting down the days...)

P.S. I would like to think that this device will be mounted on the robot...it would be amazing to get signals from the field. Period switches, or different goals...hmm...I may end up being totally wrong all around. Whatev, but my sleep is totally gone now.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I am finally, first time in 5 years now, not going to worry about the game hint.....and try to be uber suprised at kickoff when the game is announced...I'll just play Halo or something. As I have said many times before, yet again, Dave is out to mess with our heads, now by saying MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

So I'm imputing a crazy idea I came up with in an AIM Chat...

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I call Barbara Streisand on you Kyle!

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Since the outputs on the cable are digital, it would make sense for it to be plugged into the RC's digital input header, but the pinout isn't compatible. No easy way to connect it directly, or with PWM cables....

As much as I'd love to see this on the robot.... they've made it hard to wire in.

It's also interesting that the unit has to be set up to "Learn" the codes that it's meant to respond to.... Do they really trust all the teams to "teach" their board the correct codes ???? Sure ... that'll happen.

BTW, if you think the IR controller is fun... what about the IR ball ?

http://www.hitechnic.com/ click on products and scroll down to IRB1004

Re: pic: Game hint
 

A lot of these posts are still talking specifically about the board itself. Note that past hints have almost never been about what the objects were or what was on the game hint. So, unless by some weird account Im completely wrong, the game will have nothing to do what's on the board.
Any others receive their boards?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Except that the +V on the RC PWM outputs is 7.2 volts which is in the specified range. (Just like the CMU cam)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Wow, that looks incredibly amusing. But I don't think it'll make it to be a field element. Then again, someone mentioned pool tubes in the hint thread last year and I shot them down, saying they'd deflate like crazy (and they did...:D ). It's just, these are so breakable and the batteries...I'm glad I'm not a volunteer.

But I want one (or twenty...). My new camera processor should work nicely tracking them...

If only...
JBot

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Correct, but why would they suggest a benchtop power supply? I still think this is a field element. I'm sure I could be wrong, but FIRST would be giving us instructions on how to tap into that power source. There are teams that have no idea where to get power from without instructions. Remember how the CMUcam came with documentation stating exactly how to connect it? Those docs would have to exist for this thing. And maybe they do. Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think so.

JBot (I need to stop posting...)

PS. I was going to combine my two posts, but cannot figure out how to delete this one. Is that functionality missing now? BRANDON!!! ;-)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Ribbon cable-cable tv-tv antenna-antenna-tower

something to do with a tower in the middle of the field?
Notice how the 07 game had something to do with the '97 game pieces-tubes
Anyone think something similar could happen with the '98 game this year?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

i think this is a little obgect that has nothing to do with any thing buit the number 5 that after 2 minute of staring at it

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I'm going to say this.

1. It probably isn't in the kit because A) FIRST got stuck on a game hint or B) it arrived too late, and FIRST decided to just send them out.

2. In 2004, the IR beacons, which looked something like this, were part of the field. This probably is not going on a robot.

3. I hope a riddle is released soon.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

FedEx has been a generous sponsor for FIRST. The shipping of these packages likely means that FedEx has been generous again. That's a lot of generosity for the game clue. To post a riddle would not be as costly or involve a sponsor(s) (FedEx, Diversified Systems, etc.) like this effort has done.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

The CMUcam2 also came with instructions on how to set it up with a bench setup...just something to keep in mind :rolleyes:.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

they could have edited the instructions so that it won't have anything about the game and release the actual version on Jan 5th:ahh:

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Halo can never be compared to her...NEVER lol.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

This thread has grown 5 pages since I last looked at it, so I didn't read the whole thing..

But I think this provides a possibility of a concept I've been interested in for a while - interactive autonomous. Robots sending messages to each other of positions, or actions, or whatever it may be.

I really like some of the other ideas people have thrown out though; interactive HP field element, "invisible" walls, etc.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

KoP Engineer is another title she has apparently.
(Google knows too much about people these days. meh.)
http://www.thefabricator.com/Fabrica...ts-Donate-them


Zones. w00t! 2002 v2.0. Reusing game ideas is not a new concept. Sounds like it would be pretty amazing.

Seconded.



Does anyone have any clue what this thing would be used for btw in a regular project? I know it can learn remote codes.. but... i don't get why that would be useful in a project? Maybe that's the key question to ask ourselves from now until Jan 5th.

(I'm thinkin' the 99 cent (+ 5 dollar shipping) Tivo remotes that woot.com has been selling quite frequently in the last few months seem like a good deal right about now and something to invest in the next time they come up. :cool:)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Okay, so I'll toss in my speculation. I think this is in fact going on the robot. I don't think they'd send it out for teams to play around with just to put it on the field. Sending out a field element like this makes no sense, first, teams wouldn't need it to play with. A field item would be VERY specifically wired, configured, and used. You didn't need to play with the cold cathodes for the light target, you just wired them up like FIRST said. On the other hand, sending out the CMUCams early would've been highly useful. Second, putting a receiver like this on the field then assumes that teams are going to have some sort of transmitter on their robot. Which they don't have to play with and figure out.

Also, I am firmly convinced that FIRST is not so fiscally irresponsible as to design, burn, and build 1500 of these and then express them to teams around the world for the sake of a red herring and to give Dave a chance to sit at his computer going "MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH!!!!!"

So, I am left to conclude that this goes on the robot to tell the state of something on the field in autonomous mode. I honestly have no idea what this might be, but consider ho interesting AIM high would have been if there were four square goals to hit with a target light in the middle. But a random goal was actually worth double points and you could only tell by using the IR receiver. So yeah, I don't know exactly what's going on in the demented minds of our GDC, but I'm sure they could come up with a way to make this useful to put on the robot.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Unfortunately, I'm not sure robot-robot communication is possible with these, as I can't find any information in the document that references the ability to send IR data.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Anyone dumped the firmware yet, maybe the manual decryption key is hidden in the hex.
If this ends up being just a cool toy to play with, I can imagine it making a good coprocessor board for FRC teams to get their hands on, without going to the trouble of developing their own.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

OK, This board is too long to go look for qutes, so I'll just give what i'm thinking lol...

I think (credit to the 1/2 of you that have suggested this already goes here) that this may be a component to go on the robot that corresponds to something sending an IR signal on the field. Assuming that, though, I think that this piece will have its main function in autonomous mode.

As with the camera in previous years and the IR back in '04, various technologies have been thrown in for teams to play around with, but have only served as critical to the autonomous period. I think FIRST will follow this trend because, for some teams with few members, it is not always possible to devote the time and resources required to program these things.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

What about a remote during autonomous that allows you to adapt auto to whatever is happening? Would make it slightly more interesting...

Re: pic: Game hint
 

but then that's not exactly autonomous anymore... now if the robot had to figure out and adapt to whatever is happening... i think that'd be much more interesting

Re: pic: Game hint
 

OK, so since I was bored, and looking at the pic of the board for quite some time.. I decided to google some random things and see what I can find.

The order of the D codes above the LED's is D2, D5, D4, D3 & then D1.

The number 25431 is the zip code for the town of none other than Levels, West Virgina.

Different levels of game play?
Different levels of the field like a lot of previous years?
Acting like a level & balancing our robots again ala' 2001?

Who knows? I just found it really random & most intriguing within this current brainstorming session we have going on here. :p :rolleyes:

Also, on a more serious kind of note I guess, it seems to me that the included ribbon cable would be attached to the large black block at the bottom right hand of the board.

If we have that for putting code in or out of the board, then we need something to do the opposite as well right?

Can you fit 2 pwm cables side by side on the white block above the LED cluster?
Just a thought. idk.. I'm not electrically inclined in the least when it comes to this stuff, but spatially speaking, it seems like 2 pwm cables would fit there.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Levels, WV. Wow, you were bored, weren't you? You think it'd go that deep as to reference a zip code?

And to those who say FIRST wouldn't waste money on a game hint. No offense, but who cares? We're having fun coming up with ideas and designs to keep us occupied until the game is announced. And who knows, maybe our brainstorming will inspire the GDC for future games!

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I'm remembering 2004 and 2005. The biggest complaint about these new sensors (IR and CMUCamII, respectively) was, "We don't have enough time!" So the auto modes were disappointing in terms of sensor use. The camera situation was fixed (sort of) in 2006 and 2007 by giving a little bit of warning in the hints. Now, they give us a programmable IR sensor as the game hint. Start playing with these now if you want an an auto mode advantage.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

The GDC pays attention to every aspect of FIRST and all of the constraints involved, including budget. Nothing is wasted. On any level.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Well, obviously there are going to be four different game pieces: boxes, balls, tetrahedrons, and some of these. They are each placed into four starting zones randomly after the teams place their robots. In order to know what piece your dealing with in auto mode, you have to read the signal transmitted by each piece's starting zone. After you pick them up, you have to stick them in a gigantic cube in the center of the field that has holes in the shape of each game piece (you know, like that toy you had when you were a kid...)

It's so obvious. :rolleyes:

Re: pic: Game hint
 

From what I know, we haven't gotten ours (contacted all the mentors). and we are in Los Angeles...

Re: pic: Game hint
 

LOL.... and yet.... it could be......

Its soo simple yet soooo challenging!!!

my head hurts.... I'm done for the night lol.....

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Yes, I know. I wasn't implying that they were.

Same here. I'm sure when I check tommorrow, there'll be 150 posts waiting.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Stu, neither I nor the other contact on team 1345 received this email or received a package. The same goes for team 108 (as of right now). Are there anybody else who received this same email as Stu?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

my mom (2nd TIMS contact) got the email....no package AFAIK yet

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I did. I'm the alternate contact for FRC 418.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I asked in the Email Blast thread if anyone had, and I got two confirmations, however I've been unable to reach the contacts for either of the teams I'm associated with to check with them.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

330 got the email.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I did! :)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Joe...I love your work. As a fan I would highly recommend you wear some protective armor before you go back to the 330 shop because as Russel Peters says, "Somebody gonna get a hurt a reall baadd!"

Dave...I love your work, but how did you get access to the usFIRST's ftp server?

I think Dave recruited Joe since Joe has quite an extensive resume. The website is legit which means its an 'insider job' and since only few people got the email [instead of everybody, because there is no "Blast"] I suspect that it is very odd. Also I doubt that it would be Dave and Joe's plan to post it since people will automatically think it false if either of them did but I assume [yes I know what happens when I assume], that they didn't want anyone else in on it....

If I'm wrong... Dinner's on me in Atlanta in 2009! :D

EDIT1 of many: I assume that to keep it sound legit, Dave also managed to get his 'insider' to send an email to a few select teams that have "trustworthy" people that don't have any history of anything other than superb [with the exception of Joe].

EDIT2: I hate you Dave/Joe. I was just about to go to sleep and I see this.... :$ ... Why must you do this to me?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Jane, I am the alternate contact for team 1345 as well. Would you please forward me that email? Thanks.

... is there anybody on the forum who is a main contact or the alternate contact for their team and didn't receive this email?

Dave, you are killing me here. But... I am not going to lose the bet. You won't see a post from me analyzing the "clue." Try harder. =)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

We need an IP check on this ASAP, both registration address as well as the post address. We need to confirm this came from NDI or NH.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Nah...Already been shot down as a hoax. If it had come from this user, I'd be a little more suspicious. (For example, why would Dean have a rookie year of 2000?)

Oh, and I suspect you're giving up dinner in 2009 in Atlanta. The email was forwarded to the BeachBots by someone other than Joe. That means that a)this other person was in on it or b)it's legit. (Or said other person is a victim as well.)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I think we have established with reasonable certainty that it is not real. I believe the account should be deleted when the moderators confirm this.



As for the new toy, I'm in the boat of believing the robots will be talking with each other, or having multiple scoring object that the robots get bonus points for telling on which to score. I thought "AIM High" would have been more interesting with 3 lights, one above each of the goals.

If this were a field element (I'm somewhat inclined to believe it's going on the robot), would coaches/drivers/human players be allowed cameras to see from where the IR is being emitted?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

same. I was actually looking forward to that...

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I am guessing that there will be stations around the field that give data to the robot.. And the robot has to carry that data to another station..
Or maybe the IR stations would tell the robot which side of the field they need to score in? Which goals to use? That would be cool.. Imagine if each team was assigned a color during autonomous mode via IR blasters?! And the robot had to interpret this!!

::edit::
I really like this guess
Post 108
I would love to see the human player able to manipulate the field with a remote!
:::::::::

Maybe.. I just hope that the game doesn't require constant use of the IR sensor.. If they do, everyone in the audience will bring their TV remotes from their hotels!


On second thought, the clues are never 100% accurate.. So maybe it just has to do with HEAT.. IR senses heat (it is heat!).. So let's just assume the game has to do with heat.. Flamethrowers anyone!? Giant incinerators!??!? WEIGHTED COMPANION CUBES!!!!!

Re: pic: Game hint
 

There were also a lot of "noise" issues. IR reflecting of of the field endwalls confused a lot of robots that did get sensors working. I seem to recall our robot tracking a brick wall once. Actually I think we were using an EduBot for a test bed at that point. An auto focusing video camera could interfere as well.

I think the use of coding is intended to help reduce inadvertent interference like that from the video cameras. But that still doesn't deal with reflections and an object does not have to be shinny to be a good IR reflector. The only way to prevent reflections from being an issue is to not give those photons anything to hit.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

My best guess is the possibility of the IR sensors receiving the value of the colored light (red, green, or blue). However, correct me if I'm wrong, but it is possible to look for all three colors with the CMU camera without too much of a problem...

Please everybody keep in mind that these are sensors, not transmitters... they receive. not get.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

yes the S1 element is 100%(or at least 99.999995%) an IR receiver, Ive built too many LIRC circuits to not recognize that thing. Im guessing this will be used as a way for the robot to communicate with the field(2way) or for the robots to communicate with each other(again 2way). again this is why I love this time of year eggnog, colorful lights in the house(both of the visible and non flavors), and hints about what Im going to be spending every spare second thinking about for the next 2 months.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I think this will take the place of the radios.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Wow...Im just now seeing this. From this point on the days are going to become very long.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Official word says that Israeli teams will only get this at the kickoff..... :ahh:

This should help you on the speculating side I guess... It can't be that critical to send it out early if the ~40 teams here don't et it till the kickoff...

-Leav

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I doubt it.. IR needs a line of sight connection.

Hmm.. It would be cool, but why couldn't you just yell at the driver next to you? If this was in autonomous, it would be cool.. The only trouble I see with 2 way communication is that either a) teams would interfere with one another and b) teams could jam each-other's signal. I say 1way communication with the field. (field transmitting)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Random active goals on the field?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Wow, what a crazy game hint. I'm the alternate contact and shipping contact for 2158, and I didn't get any official email from FIRST :( I think I'll be checking my mail all day on Monday though to see if I get anything in my mailbox :D

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Remember, there's 300+ teams out there without a robot yet - if they're going to make this thing "learn", they have to connect it to an external power source.

Did they really expect all the teams to program the CMU camera?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Oh Yeah! I remember 2004, my first year mentoring with FRC. The IR beacons weren't hard to build, the problem was reflected light. The beacon reflected off classroom walls, linolium tile, even the black curtains of the school's stage. The receiver had an auto gain adjustment circuit, but anytime the robot got within 10 feet the circuit was unable to compensate for the IR intensity and the robot was lost.

As far as this little baby's use for this year. First, the operating voltage range is 7-15 VDC. Its definitely an onboard robot device. 7.2 volts = backup battery supply just like CMU and servos, but can also operate at 12 volts just fine so it can be used off main battery source. Also, since FIRST is giving specific idle and in-use power consumption data, this is for your power budget folks! A benchtop power supply isn't going to worry about consumption much. My vote is onboard robot and connected to backup battery circuit, and you'd better watch power consumption especially if this is being used with a CMU and/or servo pan/tilt mechanisms.

The device can receive four different signals, and has an input acceptance angle of +/-30-40 degrees. This is important! Also, the further off axis the sensor is the weaker the signal will be. Will this employ a reliability threshold like the CMU does?

I suspect this could be used for navigation purposes, probably in autonomous. If a device like this were mounted on a pan/tilt a robot could sweep the sensor around and pick up four discrete signals from the playing field, and using servo feedback, could navigate with some reasonable reliability other than the reflection issues. Another possibility, might not be navigation due to the IR reflectivity noted above, but simply to allow the robot to decide on which field orientation it should face. Four input signals = two endzones + two sidelines. Perhaps robot orientation has something to due with scoring or where to score the most points?

Time to mull this over some more.... :rolleyes:

Re: pic: Game hint
 

i think first will take advantage of this some how
so you have to get right up to the goal ??

Re: pic: Game hint
 

and doesn't this mean no more ir flash on cameras
if you ever staffed a fll comp you know what i mean

Re: pic: Game hint
 

The thing receives a coded series of blinks from an IR emitter. It isn't a simple on/off detector like the 2004 sensors. For the same reason your TV doesn't change channels if you take a picture of it, this will not care if someone makes an IR emission it is not trained to recognize.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

If you all want the link is up because I just looked at it and it gives you a PDF file that gives instructions on the IR sensor (yes it is one) or at least a IR Control Decoder Board

Re: pic: Game hint
 

It is fake, I assure you. I know i've said that, but with all the speculation I'm sure it got skipped over.


I like the 'random active goals' idea. A lot. a lot a lot.

EDIT: Also, I have received the email as the shipping contact for team 1923.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

i know I'm a rookie and all this year but since someone suggested a IP trace i did my self the favor and ran a DNS trace and this is what my findings were.

The site's and the PDF file on the site's web registration is under the name of U.S. Fndn for Insp & Recog of Sci & Tech, which is none other then FIRST, the address registrated with the sites is 200 Bedford Street, Manchester, NH.

now, myself even with this information i have some doubts about the "hint"

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Was it even meant to be a game hint? But it could have to do with a field component, like an IR beacon. That would be cool.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

accually it more like FIRST may be telling us that we will or might have to put that thing on our robots, if this is offical and not just some hoax, to be successful on accomplishing the main goal in this year's game.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Reading the PDF, it references this board as a modified TinyIR2 from TaunTek.

Acknowledgement is also given to Vishay for donating the IR Sensors. The bottom series looks like the sensor in the upper right corner of Joe's photo. (I couldn't see the part ID in the photo.)

Does any of this help you electrical types narrow the purpose?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet......

but, Joe pulled off the canceled championship hoax in 2003.

So, I wouldn't put it past him for it to be a hoax, and if it is in fact real, the mischievousness of FIRST by sending it to someone known for a hoax is awesome.... perhaps Dave's doing?:D

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Maybe if its in boldface people will read it. :D
Come'on people, she knows Dean personaly, so I'm pretty sure she would know what she's saying.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

well apparently the envelope it came in said GAME HINT! ...

-vivek

my guess is that we will have different game pieces that send different signals, maybe two types of game pieces and then after each match begins they show which game piece which alliance will be using?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Just a thought here,
If there are packages that are to go out to the main contacts or alternates, many of them would be delivered to schools most likely. Next week is the last week of school for many as the holidays approach. To create a hint that involves delivery, it would make sense that the information came out this early. Lots of logistics involved in this one.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Just for the sake of argument, I'll bite.

I'm going to put two things together and see if we can get a little closer to the/an answer.

In Atlanta, Woodie said, "Just be careful about the stock market, with jello, gerbils, and K'nex blocks."

To me, the stock market is full of ups and downs. I won't touch jello and gerbils, but K'nex blocks..... Remember the three basic First scoring shapes.

Now, add in this new detector. It is a receiver, not a transmitting unit. IR in generates 100ms +5vdc pulse. Up to 4 discreet outputs.


OK, here is what my polluted mind comes up with.

A part of this years game will be goals that transmit an IR signal indicating where (think height) the goal is. Some higher, some lower (ups and downs). We will be using a rectangular or square scoring piece.

You can either manually position the scoring item at the right height, or, using the input from the IR transmitter, automatically (autonomously) position it.

My guess is they will not be using a 38KHz transmitter to limit the amount of reflected and false signals on the field. (See the PDF for the "Gift board", page 2 at the end of section 4)

OK, fire away and tear this apart, or, support this with solid evidence.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

It's been brought up. Page two or three, if I remember correctly. There are, however, ways to verify (e.g., talk to one of the other Rosses.) The connection has also already been brought up. The fact that others have gotten this as well seems to indicate that it is not a hoax.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

4 Training the Chip
If you have successfully trained the FIRST IR board, but find that it does not respond when the remote is positioned more than a few feet away, the remote is probably not using a 38KHz modulation frequency. To solve this,
switch to a different remote (or setting on a universal remote) and re-train.


oooooo great find billbo. This indicates they expect it to be used from a distance not up close.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Autonomous use.
Field will have transmitter.
IR receiver will be present on each robot to recognize the field's signal then react accordingly:
-go to a certain area and get a certain game element?
-score pre-loaded game elements in specified location?
-defend opponents scoring area?



-The Sick Word
(waitin for a riddle)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Ok, I don't really have any ideas or theories as to what this thing is for but I'm pretty sure that it is either going to be on the field or on the robot. What I'm wondering is if because teams are now using a KOP item that uses the IR spectrum, if there will be a rule in the 2008 manual that will be restrict teams from using other IR devices because of this. My team used an IR range finder for our autonomous mode last year and we have been talking about using one for next year. We've already spent a bunch of money on some newer IR range finders and this device may end up keeping us from using them. Even if we cant use them, this receiver is probably going to be an awesome part of next years game.

-Don

Re: pic: Game hint
 

CMD0? Are our robots going to be running around without any underwear this year?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

why cant it just be jan 5th?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

sounds like a frendly game of robot basketball, seriously, used for launching basketballs into a net from a distance with the IR board reciveing info on how high and far the baskets are from the robot

edit: just a thought

Re: pic: Game hint
 

alright maybe the game will be playing a a hamster wheel shaped field that rotates horizontally
and in each ladder part of the wheel, there is are different colored game pieces that robots have to bring back to their home zone to construct some kind of wall
the stockexchange is on wallstreet (Ithink) ...which was historically built as the nourthern boundary of new amsterdam...
so maybe ure trying to build a wall out of game pieces to keep out ure alliance from your homezone...
idk might not be feasible for a 2 minute game...idk

Re: pic: Game hint
 

hahaha

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Adam,

Agreed, Joe has either pulled off (or has tried to pull off) a number of hoaxes on this website. He has reached the point where he needs collaborators to accomplish these.

First, it is posted in "Extra Discussion" rather than in a real forum. Joe knows better than to post his hoaxes in a real forum. Also, why of all people was Joe (a noted prankster) the very first to receive this misdelivery?

Second, all the initial collaborators seem suspiciously close to Joe or to his team. Perhaps a case of "You lie, and I'll swear to it." But the circle of folks claiming to receive the phantom FIRST Email Blast has grown beyond Joe's influence. Either the Blast is real, or we have folks jumping on a "Me Too!" bandwagon.

The PDF document appears to come from the FIRST website. I doubt that Joe would take a chance by spoofing the FIRST site, so he would need some inside help to upload the document. NOTE: The document author is not fully named, it only lists the name "kpilotte", which was assumed to be Kate Pilotte. It is not difficult to change the "author" of a document, and lack of a full name brings this document into question.

But, to further cloud the question, the board that Joe has photographed, and the board on the PDF document are not the same. (Or some Photoshopping has taken place.) The "quality mark" on Joe's board is positioned slightly different than the one in the PDF photo. You also have to wonder why three fonts are used on the circuit board; one for the URL, one for the component layout, but the final part of the copyright text (FIRST") is in a slightly larger font than the beginning part. It would seem that when putting a copyright symbol onto a board design they would know who holds the rights.

Finally, Dave loves to see these things mushroom, and he will gleefully post his most devilish laugh as he watches all the lemmings rush over the cliff!

Re: pic: Game hint
 

As far as I know, Joe has only tried to post one hoax. That one succeeded. The reason it is in "Extra Discussion" is because it was posted as a picture. Picture threads open in "Extra Discussion".
"Initial collaborators": I was suspicious at first. Then I started taking a closer look. I also have not seen the actual board. Part of the reason I'm thinking this is real is because of the too-large circle of recipients.
Joe has been known to fake the FIRST site, but this is far too real.
When have you known an Inventor drawing, say, and a part come out exactly identical? Two pictures of the same person?

And Joe is smart. He knows that some of us know where he lives (or can easily find out), and thus would have to keep the evidence.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I think you are really stretching on this one. The quality mark will be different on every board and the difference in font size is not remarkable. Also Diversified systems using a different font for their URl would also be no big thing.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I got the very legit looking email and I don't know Joe. Huh...

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Statistically, the bigger in scope a hoax becomes (specifically in the number of people required to carry it out), the harder and harder it becomes to successfully pull it off. This rabbit hole just goes too deep, and involves too much, to be a simple hoax.

1. Extra Discussion is the defacto place where all threads started about photos from CD-Media are located.

2. Unless someone hacked FIRST's TIMS system, how would you be able to spoof a FIRST Email Blast to every team?

3. The "Author" on Word/PDF documents is usually the person's username. Since her email address is the same name, this is the most likely scenario.

4. One was an initial prototype board (PDF image) and the other (the one teams receive) is the final version.

5. We may not be lemmings running over a cliff, but we certainly must make Dave's day with these threads. If I was on the GDC, I know I would find anything involving a game hint in a thread to be really amusing. ;)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

If I were on the GDC, I'd be quite pleased to see so many people so interested in the least little scrap of information about the game!

(and it would be a big bonus if the hint inspired some of those people to play around with robot programming and design concepts over their winter break)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Just to toss one more against the hoax theory, I just looked at the email headers on the blast, and they're exactly the same as any other, so it's an official blast. So at this point it's either legit, or Joe's one heck of a hacker with lots of inside help, etc. etc. So I think Occam's Razor should really put all the paranoia to bed at this point and let us get on with our rampant speculation.

So has anyone else wondered what the big white connector is for? I'd be able to make a more intelligent guess if I had the board in front of me, but I've a sneaking suspicion it's the programming interface. So if this was for reading a field element, setting up a robot would be as easy as plugging in a programming cable during inspection.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

If you look closely the FIRST copyright font size is the same as DIVSYS's font size

Re: pic: Game hint
 

To me, the most reasonable explanation is that there will be some IR transmitters on the field that send dynamic game information to the robot which interprets it with this board. The field would transmit a code that activates one of the digital outs on the board which can then be used to redirect the gameplay. This opens up a whole world of possibilities both in auto and tele-game periods that go way beyond telling your robot what color light is shining. The game objectives could be changed either in a preset or random fashion - or even by the robots themselves. Consider a field element that looks like a bumper but acts like a switch, so that a robot could actually change the light color... or open a goal... or modify the bonus multiplier - any of which could be transmitted to your robot as new game information.

In 2K4, I got the vibe that the FIRST game developers had high hopes for the IR devices. Unfortunately reflections and interference (and the lack of available trig calculations on the robot) made them cumbersome to use. It was simply easier to navigate around the field using encoders and gyros. Since the new ones are transmitting information, reflections won't matter - they might even help. I believe that if this thing is real, and they get it to work, we will see this device for years to come as it adds a whole new dimension to the strategy. 2K8 is gonna be sweet!

Re: pic: Game hint
 

first of all i think this is not a hoax from first and that it is legit but not the whole story
just giving us some random object (ok so its not compleatly random they must have given it to us for a purpouse) without telling us much more is not much of a game hint
also if you look at the email (i cannot verify at this time whether my teacher has recived it yet (i know i had his cell phone number at one point in time :confused: ) so i cant reach him) but it says that this is the season for hints, but "keep your eye out for a December gift from FRC and the game design committee"
gifts aren't clues
they're gifts
so i think there will be at least a riddle coming soon
also another weird fact is that this email everyone is gettin is not listed here
1 other question
i am not 100% electronically knowledgeable but im not used to seeing red boards
could this colour reference more than just being there by chance
mabey we can expect as triangle(from first logo (its red:) )) as one of the objects in this years game
oh how i wish it was january 5th (im not rushing anything, i swear)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Getting away from all the hoax stuff...

ASSUMING this is real, then...

Would that indicate that the GDC has given up on the CMUcam, since it was supposed to be able to calculate how far away the light was, since we had a defined height? Or is it that they want to use both elements??? And something tells me we won't see a game where you're firing balls at something for another couple years- Aim High was only two years ago.

THIS IS MAKING ME GO CRAZY!!!:eek: :ahh: :eek: :ahh: -:D

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Although I don't really think this is a hoax (possible, but unlikely), the header doesn't really prove anything. Spoofing email is really easy (especially if Joe has an accomplice who has an email address with FIRST (ie Dave Lavery (also a noted prankster)))

Re: pic: Game hint
 

It doesn't have to be projectile motion--imagine if there were five 2006-esque corner goals with values that fluctuated between 0 (or, even worse, -1!) and 4 points. Knowing which are which would be a huge advantage.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Well, technically the clue could be the gift, especially since it's from the GDC.

The email was not, indeed, posted in there, and it wasn't posted in the Blast sub-forum here, which perplexes me a bit, but not enough to cry hoax. Question: Did the teams who received the email also get the board, or vice versa? Or did you get one or the other?

Red, orange, green, and (yes) even blue electronic boards are often used by the industry. Though I don't remember the exact reasons for the coloring, I do know it's not a brand-spankin-new idea.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I like this line of thinking. It is awesome.

Also, unless I've overlooked something from Joe's posts, there isn't anything that says keep it, don't take it apart (robotics, remember? - that's what you guys do).

Would it be helpful to have hoax thoughts in one thread and hint thoughts in another? Or just keep us all one big happy family?