Re: pic: Game hint
 

Earlier this fall, as FIRST was releasing information, I was surprised at the number of times they addressed "collaboration". Taking your NASA idea to a more present engineering achievement, consider the International Space Station. This is an Engineering task that must be coordinated between teams of engineers very distant from each other, yet the separate components must match up in space, or their efforts will be wasted.

BIG WHAT IF . . .

What if FIRST provided a docking ring and collar system in the KOP, and teams had to build both a drive system and an actuator assembly that could be separated by using this docking system.

Then at competitions, teams would not only play together, but would have to use the drive from one team with the actuator from another. You could have 2 robots vs 2 robots matches and increase each alliance to 4 teams (8 teams per match). Teams would only play with half their robot, and they could mix and match among the alliance to get the best fit of robots.

It would be very difficult, but by encouraging collaboration, it would mimic a current engineering task.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I dont think that first will like the idea of some teams using other teams drive systems/operational systems.
It might just take the whole game out of the driver-skills.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I'm thinking more along the lines of one bot synching operations with another. Here is the scenerio - Two aliance bots approach object to move together, 1st bot would be in Master mode, 2nd bot would be in Slave mode. Both bots go to pick up / move object and Master bot sends a sync signal to Slave bot via IR so both lift mechanisms operate simultaneously. This way you can get coordinated lifts, provided of course that the lift mechanisms operate at the same rate. In a similar manner both bots could be synched to move at the same time or operate two seperate field targets at the same instant to open gates, doors, etc... This would be slick and make the collaboration hints valid. Remember what FIRST was trying to teach in 2007. What will your opponent / alliance member build and how can you accomodate / defend against it.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Looking at it a little differently, cup 1/2 full - it could present different challenges and opportunities to the drive teams and to the build. The excitement of the '07 game was the collaborations of the robots and of the drive teams working together.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

i am not impressed.!
you have all missed the most obvious clues with this board. you keep trying to fasten it to the robot.

clues
1. the power available from a robot controller is +7.2 and +5 volts.
the power for a field component is usually a 12 volt battery.
this board runs on 5 volts but requires between 7 and 15 volts!!

2. the ribbion cable is not configured anywhere like a digital connection on the controller.

3. the learning of a remote allows the newton field to use differrent codes from the curie field.
if each team had to learn an alliance partner code it would take too much time between matches.

4. there are 4 outputs from the board. there are 4 corners on the field. 2 red remotes and 2 blue remotes would allow teams to trigger 4 release mecanisms.

we have cmu-cam to collect data. now we will have IR remotes on the robot to send data to the field.!!
please put this board on the field where it belongs.

jerry w

Re: pic: Game hint
 

This is actually very possible IMO. I am actually planning on creating this type of thing, similar to STANGPS except different technology different sensors etc and cheaper and possibly redistributing it as a white paper. Hopefully FIRST is doing this for us but I believe that if real development in this "Field Mapping" type project is to occur than it will be team led since FIRST wants US to develop that type of stuff.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

So I guess the 12vdc battery on the robots is just there for counter balance?



If you noticed by looking at the picture of the board, the connector on one end of the cable connects to the board at the matching plug. The other end of the cable is not terminated, allowing us to come up with our own connections designs to the RC.



The rest of these speculations are distinctly possible.
I really would love to see more ideas on this thread about this boards possible uses, as long as they make sense based on what we know already.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Uhhh the 12vdc battery connects to the RC board, which converts any digital output to 5vdc. I don't think the camera would run very well with 12vdc running through it!! ;)

EDIT: Although this is the case I still think it will go on the bot.... but I also can see it being a field element... although I'm leaning more to it going on the bot

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Well, the battery connects to a breaker, then to a distribution block and then to the RC. The distribution block make 12 vdc available to various devices: Victors, Relays, RC, Gear Tooth Sensors, IR Receiver Boards....

My point is, this device can quite easily be used on the robot, as well as being part of the field.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I am very interested in the white jack labeled 'J2'. I've mapped where the pins go.

Points of interest:
A) None of the possible i/o lines go to any header on the black jack. So we can assume that any IO coming from these has nothing to do with what the spec sheet we were given says.
B)Pins 2 and 3 are power.
C)Pin 1 could be input or a programming power.
D)The other used can be i/o, in circuit debugging, or programming.

I've never seen a chip flashed with such a gigantic connector (Usually there are just small contact pads, no?), and I do not think there would be need for debugging on a finished board.
So if I am correct in assuming that this jack is not meant for programing the chip, the white jack must be there to talk to something else, and will give off different signals than what the spec says so far.

Maybe we will see some kind of daughter board? Maybe this will hook up onto a field element?

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Now that is what I'm looking for. Thanks Tom!!!:)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

Oh that's fine, I agree it can go ethier way. I hope someone can find a way to connect it to thier bot sometime soon! (Although I can see why people won't because we don't want to damage the hint lol)

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I'm no electronics expert, but I think running this off of the 12V battery will all the crazy loads on it would be bad (but then again.... the RC is off the 12V...). Is this true?

Other than that fact which I don't quite understand, I think he is pretty dead on with his clues.... I'd agree with him more than any other guess so far.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

OK. I'll speculate as to what I believe this will be used for. :p

Many of us are assuming that there will be an autonomous mode because there has been an autonomous mode for the last few years. This year, I believe that instead of an autonomous mode there will be a timeframe (say 45 of the 135 seconds in a match) in which the drivers line of sight to the robot will be blocked (some sort of removable/droppable screen) and that the driver will only be able to navigate via a IR sensor grid, with 1 emitter in each corner of the field.

Since the viewing angle is only 60 degrees (+/- 30 degrees) there would be no overlap, and since the signal strength is proportional to how 'on axis' you are it would be fairly easy to navigate to a spot on the field.

Thoughts?


.

Re: pic: Game hint
 

I thought of this too, but I'm pretty sure that the signal strength they're referring to is the input signal, not the output. I'm not an electrical guy, but from reading the document I gathered that the board only gives a digital output: either "I see my code" (+5v High) or "I don't see my code" (0v Low)

From the information that the RC would be getting (assuming this goes on the robot), there is no way to use the incoming signal strength to navigate.


Even if the board were giving out analog data corresponding to the signal strength, you'd have to have additional data from other sources to tell you whether your signal corresponded to the + or the - side of the angle off center.

I do believe the board will be used for navigation, but not in the sense that you are describing. (Though I very much wish it was)