pic: Game hint
 

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is this legit?

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Looks pretty legit to me.... read the board carefully...

More digging later

Edit: Can you show us the other end of the cable?

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The site says something about insert text and pdf here. (You have to enter the URL directly; no link yet.)

Joe, if there wasn't photographic evidence, I'd suspect something was up on your end...Seeing as there is, Lavery Claus has struck.

Reading what is below the five LEDs, each says something about "CHXX", with XX reading (L-R) 03, 02, 01, 00. Except for the far right one, which reads "ERROR". Then you throw in what looks like a reset button. I detect a radio device of some form.

Oh, and there is a website printed on the board. www.divsys.com

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let the madness begin...

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I'm pretty sure he's serious this time. He also contacted the team.

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Ahhh, let us now experience the powers of the interwebs.

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I call shenanigans (and not just because of Joe's history). Anybody can put a circuit board together with "© 2007 FIRST" silkscreened on it. (I also find it a little strange that FIRST would spend what can only be an appreciable sum on FedExing 1,500 of these things around the world when the kits are also going out reasonably soon.)

That said, I'm lightly seasoning my words in case I need to eat them later.

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I don't think its a hoax. Check out the provided web address, it works.

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The URL does work, and it points to a known supplier of FIRST (see their logo on the banner here). I'm still cautious.

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It definitely is real. Our mentor just got the package himself today via FedEx Saturday delivery. The picture our mentor took shows the same parts that are displayed here. Can't seem to figure anything out yet though.

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I was gonna think that it all is a part of the new KOP, as the cable has where to connect on this board.
Only problem is it says FIRST2007. If it said FIRST2008, i'd be sure its from the KOP.

What could it be used for, can anyone who knows electronics look at it and tell what he thinks?

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Oh, I meant the FIRST address. There's no information posted, but the URL navigates to a valid portion of the usfirst.org site. Anyway, there goes my sleep for the rest of the year...

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Whats the other end of the cable look like?

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It's just cut off, nothing attached.

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I just got ours. There is no other end of the cable, just cut wires.

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I also don't think it's a hoax. Here is what I can see from the picture:

• IR Receiver
• 5 LEDs (CMD3, CMD2, CMD1, CMD0, ERROR)
• a Microchip Processor (PIC16LF87)
• Ribbon cable goes to J1

My best guess is that this is a field element. The robots will send an IR signal to this device, and the field element will act accordingly. There are 4 commands. I think the button will clear any errors that come up (reset button).

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Good guess.. i wasn't in FIRST for 2004 game but i heard that they used IR and it wasnt very reliable.. is this true?

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There goes Christmas...

I'm still a little skeptical. Are we sure that this is a hint and not an early delivery of an item in the kit? Perhaps something extra for teams that has nothing to do with the game, like the fuel cell challenge was?

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The board also has a website listed on it...

DSI
www.divsys.com

but it's just a rapid prototyping company that does circuit boards.

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The envelope had a sticker that says "FRC GAME HINT!"

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As I remember, IR was not particularly good for navigation beyond a couple of feet away--the light could reflect off the aluminum field barriers and throw everything off. I wouldn't rule it out for other purposes, though.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to purloin some ketchup from the student union. It looks like I'm going to need it.

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i can see there the number 67 on the right top of the board.
Also some sort of a black signature on the left top of it.
I think we need to see more pictures of boards, there might be a few versions of them.
What's on the other side of the board/ paper?
Why isn't there an email blast about this yet? Last year there was one.

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How is it all the California teams got theirs first? :rolleyes:

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Shipped out of california?

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Divsys based out of Indianapolis

FIRST based out of NH.

is he the only one to get it so far

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Specs on the PIC microchip on the circuit board:D

http://www.chipcatalog.com/Microchip/PIC16LF87-I-P.htm

This powerful (200 nanosecond instruction execution) yet easy-to-program (only 35 single word instructions) CMOS Flash-based 8-bit microcontroller packs Microchip’s powerful PIC® architecture into an 18-pin package and is upwards compatible with the PIC16C7x, PIC16C62xA, PIC16C5X and PIC12CXXX devices. The PIC16F87 features 8MHz internal oscillator, 256 bytes of EEPROM data memory, a capture/compare/PWM, an Addressable USART and 2 Comparators that make it ideal for advantage analog / integrated level applications in automotive, industrial, appliances and consumer applications.

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shipped from NH.

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GAAAAAAH! No, not now! The hint can't come out until AFTER I'm on winter break! I still have schoolwork to do! NO!

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Do you think the white header is an in circuit programmer or something?

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The black stamp is a standard inspection stamp, put on by the board manufacturer.

The other side of the board is empty except for traces.

The other side of the paper has the FIRST logo and says "Tis the FRC Season..."

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<playing_along>That black thing on the top right of the board looks like an IR emitter (transceiver?) to me... could be a way to program the RC remotely....</playing_along>

in any case I'm gonna still go with the "thanks for keeping us occupied while there is no game hint - but this is probably not real" line of thought... just to keep myself sane.... :)

-Leav

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thats the road im taking at the moment. i couldn't handle 20 days, 15.5 hours :ahh: of guessing lol

...forest

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Ugh... I always dislike these threads because past hints have always been so far from what the game ended being, or being hoaxes. It is so easy to think of theories that are fully justified but end up being completely off the mark.

But... I have my own theory:

The colors of the cable remind me of Dave's pre-finals speech at the 06 championship where he made like the vision targets were going to change colours from green->red->blue throughout the einstein matches. The various CMD[0..3] LCDs could indicate the current colour that it is driving. Since there appears to be nothing that appears to connect to the RC, I'd say this is a field element control piece. The IR receiver looks exactly like the ones we had on 2004, so perhaps we have to beam IR at a field element.

It will probably lie flat somewhere low (1-3 ft off the ground). I get this because the IR receiver points upwards at a slight angle if you lie it flat, which would allow it to receive IR from a robot-mounted source. I'm guessing it isn't upside down because it would have to be so high that you wouldn't easily be able to see what mode it is in.

Here's a complete theory, good and precise so I'll look kinda dumb when the truth comes out:
-Teams all received this piece early so that they can begin constructing the field element for their practice field, details of which will be put up on the frc_decgift site soon. The field element will respond to IR emissions to cycle through modes (possibly colour related, judging by the rainbow cable), which will be indicated on the front to judges or teams via the LEDs. These modes will change some form of action on the field, which will be revealed at the kickoff.

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Oh dear, Libby, you still have to study, no 2 ways about it.

FedEx, thank you! (I think :))

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...but....but...Jaaaaaaaaane! I won't be able to concentrate!

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Gaa!!

Why couldn't it be a riddle like before sometimes?

Ill wait until our team gets one.

-vivek

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Is this a joke? lol. "Dean K" on CD? This looks like what will be inside the 2008 controllers.

Old Microchip: PIC18F8520
This One: PIC16LF87

I don't know if this is a game hint though. Give it some time.

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I think this year we can use monkeys, as long as they are somehow powered by the battery.

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I'm sorry but there is just one thing keeping me sane at the moment:

there is no way this should be shipped outside the KOP. period.
well except of course as a game hint... but that is very costly compared to a simple post here at CD by lavery - so I deem it unlikely to be sent out early solely as a hint piece.

it is so costly to ship this out to all the teams, for a hint that's not really supposed to help you find out what the game is.

now that we have concluded it cannot be a hint (i hope :)) we can also tackle other scnerios:

1)it is a field piece they added at the last minute: unlikely because they plan the game very well and wouldnt just forget something or add something in the last minute.

2)it is a piece for the robot they just developed: well there is still time to send it out to the various kickoff locations and distribute it in a very orderly way and make sure everyone gets one instead of just sending it off to every single mentor....

so sorry, but I can't rationalize this being what you say it is Joe :)

-Leav

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What the heck?
ok st first i thought it might be Dean,now i know it isn't.
No way Dean would use JK/LOL/ put his AIM in public.

Antone considered it might just be a joke?
I mean, we haven't heard a single word from any official place yet... All those mentors might just be messing with us!

Either that, or Lavery has taken over CD...

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No way thats Dean... he didn't give an hour long speech :p

jk

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It's not. Promise.

Note the "jk LOL" in the edit. Also, he's waaaaaaaay too busy for CD. Unlike me...

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read the "edit reason" .... it says "jk lol..." (i.e. just kidding laugh out loud)

also.... Liron it is really late what are you doing up! ;) (it's 1:46 am in Israel now)

-Leav

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did it come in a box? game piece?
what was packing material?
any printing on inside of shpping box?

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He was waiting for a game hint it seems. :) Why - are - you guys up?!

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I have a feeling Dave is just sitting at his computer going....




MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH!!!!!

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you say IR sensors, I say gerbil sensors....

Could someone please enlighten me as to what the IR part of the 04 game was? It was stack attack that year right?

thank, vivek

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well... I -do- have a test tomorrow... and I -was- studying .... :rolleyes:

-----------------------------------

and Andy... don;t think you will be fooling anyone with the "user uploaded file"... :) you will have to try harder (look at the full URL..)
suddenly not so sure it's not legit.... :/


-Leav

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04 was Raising the Bar. No Clue what IR was used for.

I didn't upload it myself. Here you go: http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc...t.aspx?id=7600

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oh well

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CHECK THE WEBSITE AGAIN!!!! IT'S UP!!!! WOOHOO!!!

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em...
i be night creature. Especially when it comes to build seasn =]

This PDF doesnt tell oo much ..

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okay... so now we can control our robots with a tv remote lol

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So now we know what it is..... what is the purpose?

Laser tag robotics?

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I don't think so. Going off Bongle's earlier post referencing Dave Verbrugge's joke from 2006, perhaps this will allow teams to replicate some field condition. I.E the field will change the color of the lights randomly every X seconds. This will allow teams to replicate this at home.

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well I have to go to sleep now... I really do...
but I will sleep soundly - because I have confidence that when I wake up this case will be cracked wide open and you guys will have the solution to this vexing (pun most definitely intended) riddle :D

-Leav

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ooh could be nice!!!!

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At the end it says "Assuming a 12VDC supply, the power consumption of an idle FIRST IR board is appoximately 78mW." so could we assume that this will be going on the robot?

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Sounds like there could either be more robot interaction this year, or possibly a field that changes during the game.

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no.
The green light also get 12VDC.

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My votes for something like that..

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there was some sort of becon at the bonus balls that the robots could use ir to home in on.

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Could be that, or it could be something like a bonus ball or something being released at a certain time in the game. I like the chance of multiple colored lights though. Good thinking.

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NO WAY that's Dean ...


DON'T FORGET ... FedEx is a major sponsor - they probably shipped these all for free.

Also, I JUST recieved this FIRST email blast ...
NO QUESTION THIS IS A LEGITIMATE GAME HINT!!

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well the pdf was created friday december 14th 2007 at 3:39:46 pm by adobe distiller....nothing spectacular...the author though is kpilotte after a quick google search it turns out theres a photobucket account with that username http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v641/kpilotte/ and a stumbleupn account http://kpilotte.stumbleupon.com/ an ilounge account http://forums.ilounge.com/showthread.php?t=57728 and something promising is she had an @usfirst.org email address... http://www.sensorsmag.com/sensors/Se.../detail/314079 under more sensors please. from what i gather she is part of FIRST's sensor development team.

kinda crazy lol

may be useful idk

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I'd imagine it's a field element that they need shipped out so remote Kickoffs can have an accurate field set up on Kickoff day. They release material lists for field elements before Kickoff for that purpose.

I guess we will be seeing some changing field elements this year.

Only 20 days left....

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Kate Pilotte was a member of the 2007 GDC, and I would imagine she is back for 2008 as well.

Cool article, nice find.

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Pretty sure this isn't a field element. . . Would be added to the robot. Each remote kickoff has their own shipping coordinator and field build team.

Nice find also fimmel :-)

My guess is there will be an IR Transmitter like they had for the bonus balls in 2004 Rasing the Bar, to tell the team what color mode they are currently in for vision lights.

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MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH!!!!!

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maybe we use Wii remotes cuz last year xbox360 controllers

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Infared transmitters around the field sending info to the robot maybe?

Maybe its the gamepiece hahah... that would catch us all off guard...

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Yes Kate is on the GDC, she works at FIRST and is one of our our heros at FIRST.

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Diversified Systems out of Indianapolis made the sensor boards (and populated the components onto the boards) for last year's Kit of Parts. The same guys who managed the build for those boards were judges at the Boilermaker Regional, the FRC Championships, and IRI.

It's great to see Diversified get more involved with FRC.

Andy B.

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water game.


... thought i'd get that out of the way....

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Look what i found on the Trossen Robotic's website http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store...-Remote.aspx:D

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In my opinion, the issue with IR in 2004 was that the transmitter needed to be built by hand from diodes, etc, and there wasn't enough incentive in the autonomous period to try to work with it. Don't forget, it was also the first year that teams had the PIC (vs the Basic Stamp), so they had to learn a new programming language as well.

Infrared as a technology could be well-done in FIRST, if it's well-supported and people have time to play with it. I think this just may be what FIRST is trying to do. If it's a DIFFERENT technology, then it very well could be FIRST's way of trying to provide us with some info ahead of time (once the site is active).

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It's showing an error.

See, FIRST must have a thing with killing our sleep... Because my brain is a bit too busy with speculation and designs to sleep now.

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If the IR-sensors are gonna b used for some sort of robot "ID" system (2 tell apart frend from foe) if the game was something like lazer tag (as suggested above) and to score/dock points based on who you hit..

just thinkin aloud here..

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I just hope FIRST is smart enough to stay away from actual TV IR codes if this is a field element. And/or that teams will stick with odd buttons on DVD remotes. Given the existence of the Ninja Remote and the TV-B-Gone and all.

Mostly I'm worried about the impact of field lighting on these. I've seen some remotes that were remarkably finicky about fluorescent lighting near the receivers and all.

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just a note on that. the field lights are not florescent there regular incandescent (AFAIK Halogens) but standard theater / stage lighting. i doubt it will interfere with these little guys

...forest

on a side note... i my be a good strategy to use a TV-B-Gone or something lol

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Remove the emoticon from the end of the address line and it works.
:D

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Considering:
Once its mode is set, a single 5V output is sent via its output pins. The RC has 5V inputs.

It accepts power in voltages in a range that includes the voltage that the robot runs at.

It would be difficult for teams to wire up a IR emitter that emits certain codes, but it would be easy(-er) for them to mount this on the robot and receive codes from more complicated hardware mounted on the field.

Dave's joke in Atlanta in 2006 before the Einstein matches.

Changing my earlier guess:
I now guess that this will be robot mounted, and will receive info about field status from a high-mounted (hence the angle upwards on the IR sensor) source, akin to the green light in 2006 and 2007. Since it has 4 modes, then we can assume the field will have some item (probably in autonomous mode) that can be in a state that is in exactly one of up to four states. Each competition will probably have a 'training unit' where you can take your robot to get its IR sensor trained to recognize the 4 IR codes for the field modes, similar to how you could get calibration RGB data for the camera.

But the arena lighting will often be florescent, regardless of the field lights.

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The first thing I think of when I see this is all the fun I had making Mindstorms RCXs talk to eachother.....

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yeah thats what i thought...

I'll guess anyway:

are we going to have to detect the different infared that will change the score value?

have fun programmers!

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So here's what I'm thinking:

CMOS image sensors pick up into the infrared spectrum REALLY WELL. So, anything that ouputs any infrared will appear rediculously bright white on a monochrome or color CMOS image sensor. I think it might even work for CCD devices. Just try pointing your favoirite handy-dandy camera/camcorder at a television remote and push a button.

So... that gets you to a target... then when you're in front of it the decoder can tell you what it is. Sounds like a great extended autonomous to me. ;)

Wow I can hardly wait now!

-q

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I would love to see robots talking to each other this season, but it's probably safer to assume these things will be getting signals from the field.

Can't wait to get my hands on one.

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It was in a padded envelope. The three items pictured were the only things in the envelope.

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there would be no point in some IR device when changing a light every X seconds could be accomplished be a simple randomizer circuit (which isnt exactly simple) but you get the idea.

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does this mean I can stop staring at the "Woodies's game hint @ Atlanta " thread? There has been almost 30 post per hour on here:p
This is defiantly legit, but the question is now where do we go from here?

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My musings on this.
A series of IR "keys" would be given to each team. 4 keys, one per LED. The keys are unique to each team.
The interaction with the field would go as follows. There are four stations that contain whatever game piece we will be playing with this year.We use our four keys to unlock one of these stations, one per station. The stations then release the game pieces and a set number of points are awarded to a team for unlocking a station.
This also releases game elements that can be used by either alliance to score (makes alliances balance threats and opportunities). The alternate strategy is totally shutting out the other alliance from reaching a station, thus preventing them from scoring anything, and then unlocking a station yourself.
This uses the relatively short distance of IR to its advantage. It forces teams to actually get close to the station instead of trying to unlock a station from long distance.

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I get it! It's how they're solving the radio issues. We're driving the robots with TV remotes. You know...enter 32 into the channel changer to drive forward...Just imagine:

"32-98-101-13-7-20-57-32! No, 64! Volume up! VOLUME UP!"

-The previous has been posted for Methane of Team 190

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Human player couch potatoes?

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This is one of the funniest things I've ever read on CD. Awesome!

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I don't have a detailed whatever made up, but maybe based off of Capture-The-Flag? I don't know. I'm just all fizzled up inside now!