Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

I was getting a really nice feed for a while before I came to campus, now its really small and pixelated....

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

Did 190 just do what I think they did?!? If they get that thing working consistently... wow.

(for those of you that missed it, they just did a 2 second lap+hurdle of the ball)

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

A complete lap and a hurdle in 2 seconds? Is that possible? A 30 fps robot would be a blur...

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

They swing the ball over the top of the barrier, leaving the base in one place.

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

That's scary-clever.

I just saw a match with 190, but the video got scrambled at the key moment. So, after they swing the ball around the barrier and across the hurdle, they lower it to the ground and release it? If an opposing robot is unable to knock their Trackball away, do they just pick it up and swing it around again?

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

That's correct. They have to release it before the ball hits the ground (per this Q/A: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=8151). Sometimes, the ball gets away on its own, and sometimes someone knocks the ball away. I think the most they've done is 2 hurdles in a match.

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

Shouldn't they get a <G22> penalty each time they do this? Their arm definitely breaks the plane the of quadrant directly clockwise to them. I think that many teams would have ruled this strategy out during brainstorming, believing it to be a rule violation.

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

I came to this conclusion too, they are definitely breaking the plane into the previous quadrant without ever leaving their home stretch. This should make for some interesting discussions...

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

I've also seem robots leaning on the overhead bars that seemed to bob back across the "plane of the line" even though the 'bot doesn't touch the floor back across the line. I definitely want to meet with the Seattle refs before the first match...

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

<G22> says you get a penalty for crossing the lane marker. The diagram on page 4 of section 6 shows the lane marker as the tape and calls the barrier the lane divider. 190 never crosses the lane marker, but does cross the lane divider. <G22> also specifies that the penalty occurs when you move clockwise across the marker. 190 always moves counter-clockwise.

The GDC did leave themselves an out in the Q/A response. If 190 is successful this weekend, I wouldn't be surprised to see an update.

If the original <G36> was still in place, they would have violated that.

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

So, according to the manual, the "Lane Marker" extends across the entire field, with the "Lane Divider" on top of it. So, 190 is crossing the "Lane Marker"

I see what you're saying, but this would mean that a team who enters a quadrant then makes a CCW turn and breaks the plane of the previous quadrant should not be penalized. This definitely has not been the case at the events I've attended and watched.

/edit: The key is, they moved CW in relation to the quadrant they are in. Since they never fully leave their homestretch, any motion into their opponent's non homestretch would be a motion into a quadrant clockwise to their current quadrant.

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

Seems like <G22> is becoming the "thorn" rule for this year's game.

Of course, Team 190 is starting in it's home zone and the arm portion of the robot is sequentially crossing lines in a counter-clockwise direction. So, Team 190's actions may not be a clear-cut violation of <G22>.

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

I just wanted to add that Team 100 roolz. I saw their 'bot in Oregon too. What a nice machine.

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

Keep in mind that the definitions of Clockwise and Counter-clockwise movement are actually different from one another:

CCW: A robot is moving counter-clockwise if it COMPLETELY crosses into the next quadrant in the counter-clockwise direction. In this case, the robot enters the next quadrant.

CW: A robot is moving clockwise if it PARTIALLY crosses into the previous quadrant in the clockwise direction. In this case, the robot enters the previous quadrant.

So, no matter what 190 does with their arm, they have not officially "Entered" any of the next quadrants until their entire robot is within the next quadrants. However, they do "Enter" the previous quadrant if any part of their robot extends into the previous quadrant. Therefore, the robot is always "in" its own quadrant until it partially crosses into the previous quadrant. At this point, it appears that their robot is officially "in" the previous quadrant.

The rule itself is pretty obscure, though, and I'd hate to see 190's strategy deemed illegal. I guess it's up to the GDC to decide...

Re: Silicon Valley Regional 2008
 

No penalty for 190 in their last match, but I expect a ruling on that strategy soon. Someone is going to ask if it's legal.