Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

wow not even 7 hours and 200 posts! WOW

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Remeber the GAME TIP IT, you add weights to tip it one way or the other.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I'm sorry, did you mean swaying? I got a visual of a building 'sawing' other buildings and it had to straighten up and stop.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Yes im sorry i haven't gotten any sleep lately because of CD. My spelling has been horrible today.... :D

ahh but sleep will come soon

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

ok so i have been mulling this over and i have a theory... that is pure speculation

first lets look at the song

Sometimes the light's all shining on me--regular field lights on
Other times I can barely see-- black lights on, field lights off
Lately it occurs to me-- i have nothing
What a long strange trip it's been-- i got nothing


The first two numbers are the coordinates pointing to the light pole with 4 lights. This is referencing the FTC game Quad Quandary. The FRC game will be essentially the same except we will have circles, squares and triangles to put onto corresponding posts. As for the third number, it is the approximate wavelength of black light so randomly the field lights will go out and black lights will come on. The posts that we have to score on will be emitting different IR frequencies and that is how the robot will know what post it is in front of during autonomous and when the black lights are on because the drivers will not be able to see the posts.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I cant stop hitting the refresh button every 10 seconds!!! awwwwww!!!!! no sleep for me this winter break!!!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Very cool concept that would look cool to because you can actually see the infa-red signal in black light. its cool

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

In refrence to the weights in the top of the building, I think episode 4 of the first season of Numb3rs deals with a building being unstable when the wind struct the building at a certain angle. The solution, if memory serves me, was to add the system of moving weights on the roof.

Just a possiblility, remember one years hint was "a shovels show" in refrence to Davis Spade of just shoot me. :D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Interesting... Its weird how woodies hint about jello is actually somewhat relevant since we have this huge building which at one point was very "jelloish" as well. (unstable)


ok so not exactly jello but hey its a thought.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think Andy Grady was talking about this earlier, if it is the same kind of idea.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...&postcount=115

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I really like this idea...it kinda relates to an idea i had earlier about an "invisible maze" that we'd have to go through using the IR

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

My guess is that were going to have to stack unstable boxes on moving platforms that can be either controlled or just move around or maybe even stack it on your robot but wasnt this already used in the stacker game?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

The train tracks were actually for an observation trolley not weights.
The weights were inside the building hanging so when the building shifted they did not shift with it so the weight would help pull it back.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I deff agree the game piece is prob going to be unstable and there might be something involving counterweight?!? (such as an endgame or autonomous)??

Just a thought:confused:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Since the first two numbers are such clear lat/long, it seems to me that the last number must be a compass bearing... but to what?

In the near range, it points to The Globe Bar and Grill....

See here... http://www.gearsinc.org/images/342_deg.jpg

But what about in the far field. Somone posted that it points to Manchester....

Well, yeah, sort of.

See here... http://www.gearsinc.org/images/342_deg2.jpg

In fact it's kinda close to the Manchester Memorial High School, where the FIRST FIRST games were held (took a while to find that name).

But it's still not close enough. The real heading to this school is 337 (not 342)

I was thinking that the clue was that the game would be a repeat of the 1992 game :)

Magneic deviation does mess with things, but it's about 15 degress in boston, so that's too much difference.

Sigh... Jerry Garcia is looking better all the time Steph :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

So, we need to stop and do a quick recap. Are these numbers pointing towards a game name, field element/setup, or sensor related things.

I myself am fairly certain of the first 2 numbers being coordinates just because of the chances that if there were something else how would they also point to the middle of a major city with so many interesting things around it.

I'm picturing counterweights on the field in some way/shape/form either allowing robots to pass somewhere or not.

The "truckin" reference with the lights and visual aspects Stephlee found is also quite profound being it was on Dave's choice of music for a competition. And would also fit using a combo of the cmucam and the newly acquired IR board.

That and the fact those coordinates point into the middle of an area thats been highlighted in several treasure hunt stories (Da Vinci Code, newly released National treasure)

Daves probably just having fun again and finally convinced the rest of the GDC how much fun it is screwing with us.


Wasn't there talk of a pvc gamepiece half filled with sand, water or some object therefore making it unstable? i seem to recall that and a pic of dave holding it

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I have a feeling that the IR board will be used to do AUTO selection or something along those lines for autonomous. The RC still gets signal from the IR board when it is in disable mode and auto mode so the field could easily send the robots data before or during auto??

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

sorry for looking like a complete idiot but this is my first year doing FIRST, who is this Dave?:confused:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Dave Lavery, quite an interesting fellow
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/member.php?u=171

i actually don't even know how to explain him lol

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

ok that makes a lot of sense now, thanks;)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

This might help as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Lavery

Basically, he's one cool guy.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Another thing to keep in mind is that usually the name of the game rhymes.For example rack n roll, stack attack, FIRST Frenzy, ect. so this may somehow help us...i think.lol

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

hmmm but what to we have to rhyme off of?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

something box, e.i stock box or vise versa

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

it seems to me that they dont rhyme so much as have the first two letters the same but i know what u mean if i knew the time i think i could rhyme(ok so i couldnt help it)
hum sleep... :/
daves response "DO NOT WANT!!!! MUAHAHAAHAHAH"

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

copley square makes rip out my hair?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

ahh very nice

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I did the same thing, but I stopped when I found a fountain in that direction. It's right between the obelisks.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

ok, so I don't know much about this infrared sensor thing, but is it possible to input numbers? In which case... could the numbers in the clue be input? Or does it just measure light? In which case they could be a measurement? Or something along those lines... I think if FIRST is giving us 2 clues that they must be somehow connected.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I have a feeling that the numbers that are given to us has nothing to do with the coordinate system. Think about it, when did GDC ever gave us a clue where it was very obvious. When anyone sees those 3 numbers, they will think about the coordinate system.

I believe, the hints have a VERY obvious relation to the game that we are just not being able to relate to yet. Look at the previous year's game hints. In 2004, we were given a velocity and we were guessing robot speed when it was the mechanism speed. In 2006, we were told that there will be dangling pasta and we had many unique and intelligent guesses. I am loving the discussions we are having here about counterweights, places that are around the coordinates; but these 2 hints given to us will be messing with our heads until kickoff. Who knows, maybe we will get something else right after Christmas.

By the way, did FIRST ever email us the hints in previous years or were they given to us in other form?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I'm pretty sure it was just sent out via the FIRST-BLAST email list.

I do believe this is the first year they have actually sent us a part

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

i think that everyone is looking into the whole copley square thing. it does make sense, but then whats the third number for? as the mentor said above about position it makes a lot of sense. It might have something to do with the where the ir sensor on the field will be... Someone made a point about a rabbit and hare statue in copley square, it might be the thing that they were refering to with the square, but that just might be something that has nothing to do with it.

It looks like there are a lot of ideas running around about copley square, if there is any one who has other ideas about the hint please speak up because this forum has taken a turn to copley square and only that.

Here are the numbers again:
42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I believe '05 and '06 were emailed.

After reading through all 16 pages, here's what I think:

First of all, I'm not completely ruling out the coordinates. It may be an obvious hint, but clearly interpreting it has proven to be very difficult. Keep in mind, Woodie works at MIT, right across the river from the coordinates given. Maybe Dave was visiting Woodie and happened to notice the Hancock building. Though many buildings throughout the world use sway dampers, I think the Hancock tower represents FIRST engineering quite well. They built a tower, realized there was a problem, and solved it with an innovative solution. We build robots, get to competition, and find innovative solutions to problems we were not expecting. In the past (alluding to Dave's signature), especially 2005, swaying has been a huge problem for some teams. The third number could be the height of the counterweight in the tower (I'm too tired to check right now).

As for the song idea,
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see"
Tracking the light with the CMU cam
other times, tracking IR (invisible to the human eye)

The one question that has been bothering me all along has been "why six decimal places?" The coordinates justify the accuracy, but height? The only thing I've seen a number of times with six decimal places of accuracy has been atomic mass... I checked, and no elements have any of those numbers as their mass. Maybe isotopes... Spelling words with elements? Masses of compounds, enthalpy and entropy? I had a chem test today...

Seriously though, what applications would use numbers that accurate? The Heading seems to point directly to the globe cafe. Maybe there's a hint in there. I've been racking my brain for hours now. Time to get some sleep

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

...A similar game was developed a few years back at WPI for Savage Soccer...I got to play it, very interesting game...I don't know if it relates to this year's game at all tho

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I dunno if anyone branched off of this previously because I merely skimmed through the 200 something responses to the most ridiculous (or that's just how I perceive it, I may be wrong) game hint I have seen.

#1. Kudos for bringing in XKCD, I don't care if it gets anywhere, just major kudos to that reference. *Applause* XKCD is just an amazing comic, get the facebook feed if you can (that is, if you have facebook).

#2. From there, I have concluded that FIRST Frenzy has finally gotten its sequel. What is after the colon is still unknown, but I have a good gut feeling that FIRST Frenzy (or something of that nature) is part of the title.

#3. The Obelisks (or whatever you call those 2 spires across from the Globe Bar and Grill) I briefly read about remind me of the two major supports of the chin-up bar from 2004. Problem is that we have already done chin-ups in the past 4 years... what will be in the middle this year? IR something? A basket? What? I wouldnt know.

#4. Back to XKCD and the strange connection between that particular referenced comic (#240) and that last line of Dave Lavery's CD Signature:



Wanting something does not make it real (there is no pot of gold at the end of a 'rainbow'(first clue)... refusing to see something because it does not conform to our expectations... HMMMMMMM....

"Sitting right there in their hands:" I have a keyboard, and even more directly, in my hands I have the many "Hairline" ridges that make various shapes (following a path this year for autonomous?... fun!). The keyboard though is as close to "hairline cracks" between keys (another XKCD #240 reference) that we are going to get, and looking at the pattern of these cracks, it looks much like a brick pattern of squares.

Conclusion: back to boxes after 4 years... sounds good to me. And do we build a wall between the obelisks this time around??? Oh yeah, can we put balls in the boxes this time??? :D

#5. The 342.242026 is something I would not want to guess for. Height and launching sure do come to mind. But if we were to consider them in other coordinate systems, it could not work in spherical since the third coordinate (phi) can only go as far as 180 (it would be a bit excessive to go beyond that without changing theta (second coordinate) around). Cylindrical though might work. Mapping though is good enough I would assume.

Otherwise, there's all my pocket change for now... hopefully the game will be fun this year.

-Joe

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

hey everybody,
here is my guess for the hint:
i was playing with some temperature calculations (because of global warming and stuff..) and one of the numbers might be and freezing/melting/boiling point of a element/compound that will be used in the game and can be interacting with the sensorchip.
One of the numbers could also contain a thermal conductivity or something like that.

I hope all can enter the resources that i provided
by the way i used this online caculator.
http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm

I know that it is pretty obvious and probably not much of a hint-solution for FIRST, but it is still different than all the goggle-map things

happy hint hunting and happy holidays

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

It's called "alliteration", rather than "rhyming", when neighboring words have the same consonant sound at the beginning. Just FYI! :)

But sometimes they rhyme too, right?

Personally, I think the word to work off of is "Square". Note that the IR receiver has four signals it can recieve - as in the four sides of a square, perhaps?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

this is actualy a very interesting and unique idea for the third number. time but not normal time. decimal dime.

Decimal time is the representation of the time of day using units which are decimally related. This term is often used to refer specifically to French Revolutionary Time, which divides the day into 10 decimal hours, each decimal hour into 100 decimal minutes and each decimal minute into 100 decimal seconds, as opposed to the more familiar standard time, which divides the day into 24 hours, each hour into 60 minutes and each minute into 60 seconds.

this article goes more into depth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time

One decimal second is 86,400/100,000 = 0.864 standard seconds
One decimal hour is 24/10 = 2.4 standard hours, or 2 standard hours and 24 standard minutes.

it is late and the math makes my head spin but this could make a different time that makes more sense

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Some thoughts:

1) Anybody notice the similarity between Dave's what is "sitting right there in their hands" (a mouse?) and Woodie's "gerbils"?

2) Personally, I think Woodie's "Stock market" = "crash". So it's "Just be careful about the crash". Perhaps we will either need to catch something that is falling, or be wary of being hit by something. The "jello" could be some sort of cushioning (either to break the fall so the item doesn't break, or to protect us from the crash). The "gerbils" could be a control mechanism (mouse).

3) Could "K'nex blocks" be a reference to Lego robots? :confused:

:yikes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

i think we jumped the gun on this whole cordinate thing what else uses 6 decimal places. all three numbers are to the hundread thousandth place so they all refer to the same thing. What else besides cordinates uses numbers with 6 decimals? that is the real question.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

okay, my grand unified theroy of everything

IR sensor= field control element, switched by robots. NOT INTENDED FOR USE ON THE ROBOT

Coordinates=seems to point to the globe bar and grill, which could be a throwback to "raising the bar" with balls and bars. Maybe the grill stands for what will serve as a game piece(balls) delivery mechanism.

After some more reading of what raising the bar auto, maybe instead of hitting the yellow ball in auto, its going to be "seek out green light, drive towards, transmit IR code"
I'm still clueless how human players will factor in the game. We'll all just have to find out on kickoff!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Just a thought, probably doesn't get us anywhere, but in standard C code, the undefined floating-point variable gives you 6 decimal places.

Also, I think we've been getting the tendency to get off on these wild strains, and while they're really cool, and lots of fun, you have to reverse-engineer them and think if it's really feasible for someone to come up with a message they want to send us, encode it in something, encode that in something else, etc., in the same order that we've managed to decode it. It is lots of fun on a Friday night when school's out, though.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

D'ya suppose we could talk some Bostonian into finding a GPS set of some kind, and really seeing exactly where this spot is? (I don't trust those imaging web sites to be as accurate as we might need).

What are the odds that two numbers like that would coincidentally locate a landmark public spot in a major city? And right near MIT? They gotta be lat/lon!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Why not combine these two clues? After all, since there has never really been a precedent before of multiple game hints, we should probably consider both of these as a single game hint.


First off they give us a clue which is a IR receiver board. Then the second hint (if taken at face value) points us to the center of Copley Square in Boston, with the compass bearing pointing out the middle of the block, between two obelisks, towards Globe Deli.

While they could have chosen to give us just a lat/long coordinate, they gave us a bearing as well. So they obviously want us to look in that direction. Why? If we use Clue #1, they gave us a board to detect signals with a limited range of ± 30° to 40°.

Clue #1: Sensor board to detect IR pulse from limited range.
Clue #2: Possible lat/long coordinate with compass bearing, which points you towards a particular direction.

Σ Clues: Playing field that encourages us to point robots at targets, possibly one which only has a limited range from which you can approach it.


However, there can still be a lot left open by these targets. What are they? Do we pick up playing field objects from them, or score on them? Are these targets zones (like the grid of streets in Boston's Back Bay) broken up into "blocks", which we might gain points from by being in them? Or might we get points from bringing something like a mobile goal into them?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

In reference to the tangent about the moon and Mars, I plugged the first two numbers given by FIRST into Google Sky. However, it pointed to blackness that was not near any major systems or stars.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

if you punch the first two numbers into google earth, you get the trinity church in boston.

another thing to look into?

chris

myspace.com/team995

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

There was a long discussion about Trinity church and a reference to National Treasure in previous posts. Besides, the numbers point in the center of the square not the church.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

The numbers are pretty ambiguous, but what about the Infrared sensor? It obviously has some use in the game, or else they wouldn't have sent one to each team... what could you do with an infrared sensor? They are used in motion detectors, or heat sensors...

Maybe we have an obstacle course made of some sort of infrared lazers!! Except that is not really a team sport, and they know most teams have trouble with autonomous functions...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

This just came to me. But, I think the first two numbers of the three number set is definitely coordinates. However if we take the third number 342.242026
and square it we get 117129.604360584676. Well what does this last number mean? Exactly how many years it will take us to figure out this game hint if they don't ever show us the game. It has to be it.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

The Trinity idea pulling on the different game pieces is probably pretty solid.

Since the first two numbers in the series were coordinates, that leads me to assume that the third is an elevation. 342.242026 is not in meters because it would be higher than all the buildings in that area. However, if it is in feet then it is still taller than most buildings, but not all.

I am fairly certain that the only building taller than 342.242026 feet and adjacent to Copley Square is John Hancock Place, which is 60 floors or 790 feet tall.

790 / 342.242026 = 2.308308 (Finding how tall the building is in relation to the height given by FIRST)

60 / 2.308308 = 25.993065 (dividing the number of floors in the building by the ratio above)

25.99 floors above ground is uncannily close to 26, considering the difference between the base of the building and sea level wasn't included.

So, what is on the 26th floor of the John Hancock Place, besides a non-existent message saying I just wasted part of my life?

This could help......or not....
 

Wow!

7 hours later, I get to read +250 posts just to reach the last page!!! :yikes:

Anyway, I tried to figure the hint by myself, but I haven't produced any firm evidence of what or where the hint is pointing to. I thought that sharing my thoughts might bring out other leads that could help figuring out the clue.

I took everyone's advice that the first two numbers were longtitude and latitude. I saw that all 3 numbers were decimeled and had 6 numbers after the decimal, which probably means they are related.

So, we have long and we have lat. Both are "titude"s.

So if we have the "X" and "Y" part of the geographic coordinates, we can also add a 3rd dimension, the "Z". which faces upward and downwards from earth's center.

and that is called ALTITUDE.

So I thought, maybe there's something above that coordinates, at that 3rd number hight?

I searched for things, specificlly satellites, aprox 342 miles, km or other distance unit above that point in Boston or over any other part above Boston.

I haven't found anything useful, but I did find this interesting thing:

http://www.meade.com/gallery/09a.html
The problem was "on November 16, 1995", which is quite out of date (or maybe not?).

If it is where the hint wanted to lead us to, then we have some relation to the space station Mir, but again, I fear I'm just misleading people.

Please prove me wrong (as awkward as it might sound).

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Whether or not the first two numbers are in fact the lat/lon coordinates of Copley Square in Boston I don't know. I do very much doubt that the third number is an elevation, bearing, or range because who would ever carry any of those 3 to 6 decimal places. That is just insane in any unit of measure. Lat/Lon yes, elevation, bearing, or range no I don't think so.

I think there is some significance to all 3 numbers being carried to 6 decimal places and am wondering more and more if the first two numbers are in fact NOT lat/lon but just the first two numbers in some sort of math problem. Maybe a positive, negative, positive, negative, ... sequence?

I fear we are all getting tunnel vision on those coordinates and reading to much into Copley Square. If it is in fact a reference to Copley Square I think it may be as simple as the shape of the square from above is like the rectangular field and there with be something of 4 in the very center (like the rack last year). The "something of 4" will be controlled by or consist of something to do with the 4 commands of the IR receiver. Also, if it is Copley Square then I still like the thought of Trinity Church as a reference to alliances of three teams again this year and/or the three game pieces of different shapes.

Can anyone tell that it is 5:20 in the morning and I can't sleep? Thanks, Dave.

Re: This could help......or not....
 

I think you're on to something. The ISS ground track does pass across Boston fairly regularly. And the altitude varies due to LEO drag and then resupply ships pushing it back up. The last time the ISS was at 342 km was this past November. (http://www.heavens-above.com/issheight.asp?)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Can someone out there in the Boston area that has a GPS device please find the exact location of those coordinates? I would love to put some of this speculation to rest. Along with a number of us who got very little sleep last night. (Not because of the game hint but because of my teething 6 month old)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

342.242026 could represent time thus giving us a time and place assuming the first two numbers are lat/lon. If 342.242026 = Julian Day then it is December 8th (December 7th in a leap year like next year) at 5:48:31.0464 AM.

If the three numbers are added up we get 313.515859 which works out to November 9th (or 8th in a leap year) at 12:22:50.2176.

Anyone know a connection to any of these dates and times particularly with the assumed location? Maybe a historic event, a birthday, a special event?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think it has to do more with standard C code. As mentioned before, the undefined floating-point variable gives you 6 decimal places.

So, to get more people involved with autonomous mode......

Is it possible that they want us to program the robot to get to a certain location on the playing field where there will be a IR signal? At that point, we will program the robot to do something when it receives this signal. When that is done it looks for the second signal and so forth. Wouldn't this make the autonomous mode easier for most teams?

Not sure about the rest of you, but when we went to the regional debriefing meeting at the end of the season, it was obvious that FIRST wanted to get more teams involved with autonomous mode.

So, with that in mind, how does this all tie together?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

well if everything points to the globe bar, someone should go in with a ir powered up and see what happens. or just ask the bar tender if he knows anything:)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

as long as were into XKCD, you should check this out:

http://xkcd.com/356/

the GDC's version is in the attachment :D

-Leav

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

globe cafe & bar website:
http://boston.citysearch.com/profile/4730129/

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

the whole thing with the weights which are located at the 58th floor not the 60th:

quoted from wiki

The building's upper-floor occupants suffered from motion sickness when the building swayed in the wind. To stabilize the movement, a device called a tuned mass damper was installed on the 58th floor. As described by Robert Campbell, architecture critic for the Boston Globe:

Two 300-ton weights sit at opposite ends of the 58th floor of the Hancock. Each weight is a box of steel, filled with lead, 17 feet (5.2 m) square by 3 feet (0.9 m) high. Each weight rests on a steel plate. The plate is covered with lubricant so the weight is free to slide. But the weight is attached to the steel frame of the building by means of springs and shock absorbers. When the Hancock sways, the weight tends to remain still... allowing the floor to slide underneath it. Then, as the springs and shocks take hold, they begin to tug the building back. The effect is like that of a gyroscope, stabilizing the tower. The reason there are two weights, instead of one, is so they can tug in opposite directions when the building twists. The cost of the damper was $3 million.

The John Hancock Tower seen from the Prudential Tower close to I-90, seen on the right
The John Hancock Tower seen from the Prudential Tower close to I-90, seen on the right

The dampers are free to move a few feet relative to the floor. LeMessurier Consultants says the dampers are located in relatively small utility rooms at each end of the building, leaving most of the 58th floor usable.

According to Robert Campbell, it was also discovered that—despite the mass damper—the building could have fallen over under a certain kind of wind loading. Ironically, it could tip over on one of its narrow edges, not its big flat sides. Some 1,500 tons of diagonal steel bracing were added to prevent this, costing $5 million.

it says they act as a gyroscope, just putting it out there not sure if anyone has mentioned this

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

could the last number indicate a time from when the hint was released? Then at said time, the shadow of the neighboring tall building points to something?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

342.242026 could be anglular degrees measured relative to North

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

These 3 numbers could just all be outputs of a computer-based calculator program (most of them that I've worked with output to 6 digits unless otherwise specified). So that leaves us with these possibilities:

1) Rotation sequence (42 degrees clockwise, 71 counter-clockwise, 342 clockwise). At first, I thought this might be a combination lock, but that won't work for a standard one because it's divided into 40 numbers, so each division represents and even 9 degrees.
2) Rotation rate (such as that of a motor, where the negative would just be the opposite direction).
3) Voltage and/or current (in mA, of course) where the negative would be a negative voltage on the positive electrode and a positive voltage on the common (assuming we're talking about a multimeter or a motor with marked terminals).
4) Relative motion (42 units forward, 71 back...)

I agree, don't get stuck on lat and lon, as curious as it is.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Any one have ICAO Charts for airline navigation? Might be worth a look.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

You're growing old already man :ahh::ahh::ahh::p.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I actually like this theory, and it's relevant because it's not the first time a co-ordinate has lead to the placement of something. A fun fact about Dean's house is that it is a perfect distance & direction from FIRST HQ which helps in transmitting info via radio from FIRST to Westwind (Dean's House).
(I forget what that distance & direction specifically was. I'll try to contact the person who gave me this info, and get some more details. But all I'm trying to say, is that a lot of things are put somewhere for a purpose)

I know some of these things have been brought up before, but I have visuals..
Oooh!! Ahhhh!!! LOL :D

Anyways, If you stand @ said coordinate, & look at in the direction of the 342 degree heading (if that's what it is), we can see a sculpture called the tortoise & the hare,


Some other coincidences when u stand there and look that way, are that you are facing "Beacon St." & MIT among other things, but directly in your sights is the Copley Square Fountain. Which to me looks like (among other things a huge field goal type structure) Football. w00t!
& The big Beacon St. connection?
Beacon = IR beacon? Dun dun dun!! lol



The single most important picture I found was this one shown below.
If you actually stood in that spot, and looked in that direction this is probably the angle you would see. Looks like I found the perfect picture for our clue as shown below. :D






My final guess is that we are using the IR sensors to aim at a beacon & between a field goal type football structure.
The visual link to the Tortoise & The Hare I'm having trouble trying to link to that theory, but oh well.


EI In FIRST World stands for Engineering Inspiration.


On last thought. As some of you know (and others may not), some parts of kickoff are actually not recorded live. What if some of the relevant information to this spot has actually been filmed on location in Copley Square already?

Anyone live in that area, and remember seeing a film crew in or around that location any time recently?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

The Posts are slowing down.
All the people who stayed up all night with this must have finally gone to bed.:)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Lies about those who stayed up all night! We never sleep... well, only briefly. Mostly, we just ran out of ideas.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

if you want you can get the Google toolbar.

It has a spell checker designed for forums

All you have to do is hit the green checkmark and it marks incorrect words in red. you right click them and it gives you a list of corrections. you select the right word and it changes it. then when your done you hit the green checkmark again and your done.

BTW. I just used it and it corrected a capitalization error on the word Google

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

At the rate the GDC has been going, we'll now get a email that says something like
and everybody will get confused some more.
Or just switch to Firefox. It has a built-in spellchecker that checks all data you enter into forms.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hey team! Try adding or subtracting Macnetic declination of 15.2 degrees from the heading and see what you aim at. We dont know if the heading. Adding the 15.2 might aim pretty close to Manchester. Subtracting is only a few degrees off of true north.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Ran out of ideas??? Well Kristine Atiyeh and myself were just talking about the recent hint, and she came up with some thing brilliant. Here it is:

They first built the hancock building and they loved it so much that they told the architect, "hey, that was beautiful, build us another one that is taller" and so he says "ok". So he builds the tower and it's boring, BUT HE PUTS MIRRORS ON IT SO IT REFLECTS THE BEAUTIFUL BUILDING HE MADE. It's totally a clue. We have to make beautiful robots this year. Two of them, but with mirrors.


Thoughts on this?? It's very, very interestinggg.....

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

its the towers at copley sqaure 342.2 is bearing of the directions southwest

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

After reading all 19 pages, I have come to my conclusions.

42.349905
-71.076072
Refers to geographical coordinates on Earth, which when inputed into Google Earth, point directly to the statue of John Singleton Copley in Copley Square.
Those seem to be a rock solid, chosen, point. Whatever the clue is supposed to reference, I think, has something to do with John Singleton Copley.
Whoa, idea, a single ringer was called a Singleton last year!

342.242026
I have no clue what this might be, could be a compass bearing, could not, I don't care to speculate.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Is it just me or does the attached picture of Copley Square look like the standard playing field!? Maybe objects in the square are elements of the playing field? :ahh:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

On wikipedia it said that the square is served by the green line and orange line subways.

Maybe our bot has to follow a green or orange line during autonomous.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Oh i know, maybe the 342 is the number of steps you have to walk in the square straight ahead to find some buried FIRST treasure! (It may be something, no sleep, awake for 30 hours) Okay, no i'm with the compass bearing on this one.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Unfortunately there is no 'straight ahead'.

I do like the playing field idea, what are all those circular things in the southwest side?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

On wikipedia it said that the square is served by the green line and orange line subways.

Maybe our bot has to follow a green or orange line during autonomous.

EDIT: I looked at the 3rd number as a compass bearing (w00t boy scouts FTW), and it seems that the streets run perpendicular and parallel to that bearing.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

okay if the third number is a bearing, my question is from the exact point at which the first two numbers meet (what I'll call the origin) and if we take that bearing and follow it, does it intersect with anything that we could call a useful piece to the puzzle of what the game maybe?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think the fact the clue is specific and there are specific things around the location is what the clue is.

The fact there are specific/different places around the area that all are different and represent differet things. This game probably is about being specific with specific objects in specific places.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

i'll bet dave is just laughing at all of us, thinking "now christmas is ruined, they'll be thinking about the hint too much."

i think we're over-analyzing too much. i mean, the square makes sense. the fact that it may point to a light post with 4 lights (i think i read that above somewhere) may just simply mean that there is 4 areas on the field, or 4 IR signals on the field that the robot must pick up on to do some kind of task. i also like the post on rings or shapes that are off-balance that we have to move. ...

....i'm thinking too much...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

like the tortise and the hare statues, I think they could possiblly make game piece out of those, you know the alliances have to push their piece (tortise or hare) into the other alliance's team's goal zone to get some points.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

It is either that, or we are hammering the wrong nail.

Personally I feel people are focusing on the easiest possible solution to the hint, and in years past, that has failed miserably... just miserably.

Then again, I could be wrong: the fact that the large building by the coordinated spot is highly reflective seems real juicy as far as game containing content. I figure there could be some IR reflectors to turn 1 IR beacon into many IR sources (A beacon in the center has # of mirrors surrounding it such that the reflectors are positioned directly above or next to some key game object).

Then there are the obelisks... suppose we have 2 beacons like in 2004, which send beams to the corners of the fields... nah... too complex. The obelisks seem like a scoring objective more than anything.

The tortoise and the hare: end of game challenge... something of that nature. 2004 (again) had the 50 point chin-up, which required more torque, lower gear ratios, and more time.

I'm just throwing more cents into the jar... I'll keep reading.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

http://www.census.gov/geo/mod/positional_accuracy.pdf

The numbers are most definitely coordinates. Google Earth quite clearly shows the statue if you use the first two numbers. I not been able to find evidence to support that six sig figs represents another standard. However, the third number is probably the azimuth which is a relative bearing. Believe it or not it is very possible to measure a relative bearing with that great an accuracy.

So the object (though it's fuzzy) that is at the coordinates of the first two numbers doesn't look like it points at the north pole. We need a fairly accurate picture and a volunteer:

1.) Go to the statue at the coordinates
2.) Using the middle of the two feet as a center point, measure the relative bearing using the third number. This is relative to the statue, NOT relative to you facing the same way that the statue does while standing in front of it. I recommend using a protractor and yard sticks.
3.) Pointing the same direction of the angle, take a picture. Try to keep the very center of the picture dead on with the angle.

In the end, this hint tells us nothing. To win the competition, you need a good strategy. To play to the strategy, you have to have a great robot. To have a great robot and a good strategy, you need every detail of the game, not a simple hint.

It's fun to conjecture though :)

Referring to Dave's sig... my laptop mouse is in one hand...but coffee is in the other...and I've never denied the coffee's existence to myself.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

At the Copley T stop, the E line is the first to branch off of the main conglomerate of all 4 green lines (heading outbound). Thus; heading in, it is the last to rejoin the B C and D lines. 3:1... 3 vs 1 !?!?!
My dreams have come true; too bad it will never happen.

Also, keep in mind about any T color speculation, there is a silver line.
Red Green (4 trains) Blue Orange and Silver

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

it could be like the vex game
a square field with for parts
maybe ir signals on the game pieces

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

thought this might help........
sorry about the size

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

trinity church shadows revealing things
sounds like national treasure

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

okay from the picture above my brain went into total field mode, because thats the first thing that came to mind when looking at it. ok... the sections in the middle could be somewhat like teeter totters, and we'd have to put boxes of varying weights onto the to balace them out. I teeter totter per alliance. and the the opening in the middle on the bottom could be where the human player would have to feed boxes to the robots (like triple play) Not to sure about the outer edges but this is what came to mind. any other thoughts?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

:yikes:
look at number 1 and 35, just at the entrance...
Its governor and Arnold.
Hence, Arnold Shwartzneger!
Who was a robot in his best movie - Terminator 2!

Wer'e gonna have walking robots this year!!!!!! WOOHOO!



(JK by the way...)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

At Nationals two years ago, they wondered if the game was challenging enough.

Compared to years past, there is always an aspect of the game that is significantly more challenging and rewarding, most notable the high lighted basket goal two years ago. Thus, scoring with IR assistance, which is inherently complicated from a programing standpoint of Rookie teams, is not entirely necessary, but a must have competitive edge for seasoned teams.

Perhaps, we use the IR to identify game pieces that are fitted with IR receivers/transmitters. Then the pieces must be organized and sorted, giving the game a more realistic feel. Points could be scored through combing or separating different substrata of pieces by color, share, size, and IR signature/identification for extra points. Drawing from "Trinity" church, subway color lines at the square, and the satellite imagery of objects in the square (Circle, Triangle, square), there will most likely be multiple game objects of different types, some of which have IR capabilities.

Oh, the possibilities. Best of Luck!!!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

hy everybody, here are some aspects i think could be connected easy:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=de&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=42.34 9905,+-71.076072&ie=UTF8&ll=42.349957,-71.075975&spn=0.001947,0.006748&t=h&z=18&om=1&laye r=c&cbll=42.349462,-71.076278

as shape part of the game field/ obstacles (statue that was refered to)



can the third number be used for this? I have no idea (rookie - newbe)
but this would also refer to the part that was send to us. i think it is very likely that this could be an navigation device for making the autonomus period ''easier''.


another idea (without any educational background!) is that one of te numbers represents a wave lenght for ifraret or some other related stuff there that can be processed by the chip.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Last year FIRST re-used a gamepiece shape (toroid) that was previously seen ten years earlier, in 1997. Maybe that trend to re-use is continuing?

The 1998 game was called Ladder Logic, and it included a ladder-shaped field element. When I look at aerial views of Copely Square and the John Hancock Building, I see ladder-shapes.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

A couple of things about Boston Geography:

Beacon Street is a few streets north of Copley Square. Copley is directly bordered by Boylston. I'm also fairly certain that there's no Rainbow St. anywhere near boston.

Also, another slice of trivia:

The last friday of every month Copley Square is the gathering point for Critical Mass. Critical Mass is a lot of fun.

<sarcasm> Maybe we'll have to build robots that ride bicycles </sarcasm>

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think everyone is taking into account the very tips and forgetting are the logical pattern ...

A game piece, for the tips and logic will be a cube or a box, but seeing the head of FIRST, the piece will be less likely, or triangles or do something new and innovative.

If you look at the game last year and the tips of last year, we can conclude that little of the game itself was revealed. The tips show that the technology can be used.

Therefore, we can only one thing to do ...
Wait for the Kick Off and not fall into illusions.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

If the quality of the game matches the quality of the game hints and the time the GDC puts in then this will be a great game.

Hey should we have a prize for the first person to get the game right based upon the hints??

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think these coordinates deffinately point to giant inflateable John Singleton Copley's as our primary game piece.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&cl...95531236977972
Street View

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

When the three numbers are added together you get 313.515859. If rounded it looks like 314. Also if the 1585 part is rounded this gives you 159. Well this looks an awful lot like pi, 3.14159... Circles or arcs anyone? THe only difference between 313.515859 and pi is that 313.515859 is a hundred times bigger. Maybe 100 balls?