Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

If we're going to encompass the whole city of Boston into the clue, and throw in Paul Revere, I'm going to throw in the link to The Beastie Boys (because the sang a song named Paul Revere) and guess that they are going to be playing the Wrap Party @ The Championship Event!! YAY!!!! :rolleyes:

Or maybe our game piece is like Legends of The Hidden Temple style, and going to be a statue... like a Brass Monkey... That funky monkey!!
(And Monkey's like Bananas, just like Dave!! woooooooo!!!!!

Or wait, let's go even further off tangent, and say that Beastie Boys begins with a BB, so the game is going to begin with B__ B__ as well.

Welcome to the 2008 FIRST Robotics challenge, BRAIN BOGGLE!!!
Woooo Hoooo!!!

Oh wait, our brains are already boggled enough with the clues. :eek:
That can't be the name of the game too!!! :confused:

Or can it?? :ahh:
DUN DUN DUN!!!!


To be continued...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Haha that was great. Anyway me being local to boston i would love for it to involve boston, but seeing FIRST is a international org. im doubting that they would focus on one city.


anyway i know that some one commented on this being possibly involving the field elements.


or....

possibly this was put out by FIRST just to torment us all......who knows!!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

So Elgin Clock is down for the count! How many more victims will this acursed hint claim?? Tune in Tommorrow to find out!! :p

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

If Elgin's going to invoke the Beastie Boys, then those of MY generation* will invoke Paul Revere and the Raiders.

Don

*No relation to The Who.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Sorry if this is redundant, i just finished page 6, but i think there is a significance in the number of decimal places. There are 8 sig figs in the first two, but 9 in the last number. all of them have 6 digits after the decimal, so that seems to be important. six... six total robots again? not much of a hint. I just think that the precision of the numbers is important somehow...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Along the lines of the Paul Revere thing, I find it interesting that the last coordinate 342.242026 when subtracted from 360 is ~17.76 (17.757974).

Right neighborhood for this date to be relevant.

B

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

didnt he ride in 1775? and considering the first four digits of your difference (17.757974)..yeah you get my point right? oh and if you ask me, that painting of paul revere by copely, i could say its a portrait of jack black rofl.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Me and some of our team members came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what the coordinates point to. they point to Copley square in Boston just to make it complex.

we believe that the game will have a coordinate system of some sort. it can not be GPS or any thing that uses GPS technology because they would need in excess of $100,000 worth of equipment for every field. it will be a coordinate system either with a gridded carpet or 2 to 3 lights with different colors for us to do triangulations.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Actually April 18, 1775

The point is the IR decoder and the 'One if by Land, Two if by Sea' thing are connected.

B

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

How about an end game autonomous that will have one of two different methods of scoring depending on how many transmitters are active? "One" and "Two" could indicate which method the robots need to use for scoring.

I so much want to watch the end game be autonomous! C'mon GDC!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I agree. The IR decoder and the coordinates are just to point us to the fact we will be doing some navigation. The actual coordinates mean little, maybe designed to make everyone nuts.

The IR decoder is set up for 1 in 4 decoding. This means will probably will have 4 targets/landmarks to deal with. The decoder also has a relatively wide beam window, I believe +/- 40 degrees (please correct me if I am wrong). 4 transmitters would cover all for sides of the arena or 360 degrees.

B

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

A few dead ends:

>When used as side lengths, these numbers do not form a legal triangle.
>When summed, these numbers produce 314.51859. First three digits of Pi yes, conclusive? probably not.
>The reciprocal of dividing these numbers is 9.00218, though I don't believe the number nine could lead many places
>No matter how they are arranged of figured into circle-based formulas, these numbers prove to be inconclusive.

For now, I believe the geographic trails of thought are the most likely.

-q

p.s. In an office somewhere, FIRST game designers laugh.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

This clue kind of reminds me of this thing we did back in 7th grade where we had to guess holiday songs from a picture. One of the clues was an alphabet which skipped the letter L (noel was the song). Looking at the clue it struck me as something simmilar because the only number that is not used is 8. Im not sure if this is relevent or not but maybe the number 8 is significant.

8 sided playing pieces?

-Sam

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

That............would be interesting.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

The whole game is never totally revealed in these "hints" - only obscure parts are.

The hard work has been accomplished - lat & longit, takes us to Copley Square in Boston, where atop the Hancock building is a beacon. Which has the capability of emitting 4 outputs - red solid, red flashing, blue solid, blue flashing.

These are the standard FIRST colors, and we now have included in the kit, an IR board with 4 selections on it. 4 choices and 4 beacon outputs, hmmm...

Perhaps, one part of the game will be that each human player will select from the 4 IR choices mentioned earlier, and that is what will establish your desired game parameters (scoring location, value, match length of time, starting or ending location, alliance partner choice, something that would influence the outcome, ect).

Human player interaction using the IR - its "in their hands".

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Or how about.... An autonomous end-game where the IR beacons tell the robots which quad of the field is the bonus zone... It would be wild to see all the robots racing autonomously to the same zone :) On second thoughts, maybe the two alliances would have different zones ....

The trouble with IR detectors is if you have more than two different codes going off, they may interfere with each other, but a foolproof way to use them is to have multiple emitters all sending the same synched signal. It's not much of a technical stretch for the field to be surrounded by a dozen or more high power emitters (just a few $'s). Then at the beginning of end-game, the robots could be put in auto-mode and then broadcast a master signal to all the robots symultaniously.

Each zone could have it's own homing code, but the chance of interference would be high.

Either way it would be an exciting end to a match.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I'm sure the GDC gets a huge kick out of reading these things. How ridiculous we must sound...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

x axis y axis z axis?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

If I was on the GDC, I would have an internal bet with all my other GDC members as to how many posts were going to be made about the clue(s) on CD.

The winner or winners would have to reveal what the clue meant in front of everyone at Kickoff & see all the looks on people's faces as it finally "clicks".

I think that's a nice prize for guessing a number don't you?

I mean.. we get to guess about things like clues, and get an entire year of fun out of it. Guessing a number of posts should be worth at least 15 minutes of fame on a NASA webcast & in front of a physical audience of >500 people or so at kickoff. Don't you? :D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

could someone please summarize the previous posts, anyone who has read the entire thread?

sorry but i dont really feel like reading 400+ posts, even on CD

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I don't blame you...

That all said, here is an interactive summary:

1. goto maps.google.com
2. type in the first two numbers of the game hint on post #1
3. press enter and notice that you have been directed to Copley Square somewhere in New England. The overhead view displays a large reflective building just southeast of the virtual green map pin and two large buildings that spell out EI just south of the mark.
4. Now goto street view and have a look at that obelisks in Copley Square, along with other great sights.
5. Next, have a look at post #383 of this thread, pretty darn conclusive material... maybe. Just below that, #387, makes a connection between the distance between Copley square and Paul Revere. More postings discover the connection between Copley and Paul Revere. In other words, there's SUBSTANTIAL evidence that there is something interesting about Copley Square and Paul Revere's residence.
6. There was also post #324 which took the thrid number of the clue, converted it to a date on excel and on that date in some year, Max Planck discovered the law of black body emission. Read up further on that post and realize there's a real connection between that and clue #1: the IR thingy.
7. Also, as a geek, I have to remind everyone of the philosophical connections between the clue and XKCD comic #240. Plus the connection between the comic and Dave's signature (the answer to the year's most important question...).

And I think that covers it for now. I didn't want to put a 400 page summary here, thus the reason why I stop here. ;) Conclude what you wish and have fun with it.

-Joe

PS: The cake is not a lie... we will get it January 5th at the FIRST Robotics Enrichment Competition Kick-off. (Sorry, I am just so happy after playing Portal in one sitting... had to make some form of reference there.) :p

PS2: Feel free to add to this summary as you wish.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hint was posted, and the first two numbers were immediatly identified as GPS coordinates to Copley Square in boston. The third number has a greater dispute of interpretations, usually either being angle from north, or height. If used as an angle, it points through two obelisks, and then directly at the globe cafe, and in the general direction of Manchester, New Hampshere. Squares, triangles, and circles are all visible.

Other interesting sites include trinity church, whose name suggests triangles, and, along with release date, suggests a connection to the National Treasure movies. Another is the John Hancock Tower, which has train tracks on the top, and a counterweight system to counteract wind.

The national treasure theory lead to a link to a song called "Truckin" by Grateful Dead, whose chorus goes:

Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see
Lately it occurs to me
What a long strange trip it's been.

This has been interpreted to mean the camera "light shining" and infared (can't see infrared)

There has also been scattered discussion about mathematical ways to make sense out of the numbers (nothing too significant yet), dave's new signature, etc.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I agree, but I think that decoding a beacon isn't necessary for navigation. The beam width won't be the factor for navigation, because either you decode the signal or you don't - it is not analog.
Um, not quite. The John Hancock Tower is across the street from Copley Square, and it's the OLD Hancock building (walking distance away) with the lights. But, good insight on blue & red.
They probably do, whoever gets closest wins dinner from the rest or something. We need to ask after kickoff...

A square in the middle of the field. The IR beacon your robot receives gives you some major advantage, but not having it doesn't mean you're not competitive. Red & Blue alliances, (my guess) 3 per side again.

Don

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Idea:

People are bringing in the "one if by land, two if by sea" phrase. Well, the British came by sea, and two lanterns were hung in the tower of the Old North Church.

There will be two IR beacons on the field, each one sending out a different set of commands, one may be a correct set, and one may be a bogus set. The robot will have to differentiate between the two sets and follow the correct one to score points.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hmmm... Just throwing this out there... We know that if we use the numbers as coordinates and heading, they point us at the Globe Cafe in Boston... The Boston Globe. Maybe there was something in the Boston Globe newspaper that could be used as a hint. Just an idea

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

the gamewill probablly use globe shaped game pieces:confused:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Atlasphere like from the old 'American Gladiators' ?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

that would be amazing:ahh:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Are we thinking in the right "sphere"? What about Right Ascension, Declination, Date....It would give the position of some celestial object, and explain the 3rd number, and Dave Lavery is a NASA guy...anyone have a starmapping program handy?

Sorry to come form left field--just my first impression.

Rob Vaillancourt

'course, R.A. is measured from 0 to 24 hours...so that won't quite work....

Maybe if we construct a large wooden badger.....

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

ROFL ...


Somebodys been watching too much Monty Python :p

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Look, you guys, the answer is right in front of you. Triangles, circles, in a square, and Trinity Church. What one object is a combination of all of the first three elements, and also shows each individually (like the Trinity, for Christians, almost)?

A TRAFFIC CONE!

I think the game piece is a traffic cone. Lay out an obstacle course. Bonus points for beating it in the end-of game automode.:D :yikes: :eek: :D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

yes good idea, everything except the middle is filled with water and then we must land a robot on the middle take the tea board back on the boat and take it to ports along the sides. and one set of IR commands is the directions to the ports and the other is one that will lock the robot up for 30 seconds or a point deduction

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

coordinates are plausible, but these are out to six decimal points.
I think they could be color values or IR readings. Does anyone know much about RGB or other color models, better yet is there anyway we can match these values to that little IR circuit board thingy

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

And the name for that game? VLC: The Game

All you do is drag-and-drop the traffic cones onto it, and they automatically score.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Maybe FIRST is taking a hint from the Stangps and the robots will have to navigate the field this year using x,y, and z coordinates. Haha figures an awesome programming challenge right after I graduate.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

If that happens, I want credit.
From the 2007 Game Hint thread:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...&postcount=707

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Absolutely. 100% credit (Blame:p ) would go to you.

And it would be great :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

i think this is the best theory i have heard, i gotta give you props, i beleive this will happen.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

That was something I actually thought of, so a couple days ago I fired up Stellarium to check. I tried observing using using equatorial coordinates, as well as from both Manchester, NH and Copley Sqaure, on both December 7th, 1900 and December 8th, 2007 at 5:48:41AM.

While there are some celestial bodies nearby, none are at the coordinates with the precision specified, and those that are close don't have any remarkable names.

Converting from degrees to hours, minutes, and seconds is easy.

Take the number, if it's negative, add it to 360. For example -71.076072 becomes 288.9239. Divide by 15 to get the hours. Take the fractional part, then multiply it by 60 to get minutes. Take the fractional part of that, and again multiply it by 60 to get seconds. So -71.078072 becomes 19hr5min41.724sec

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Nice view & some good info:

http://books.google.com/books?id=dmF...s95kU#PPA50,M1



More random Copley Plaza facts. :p
They filmed portions of the movie The Pink Panther 2 there on September 19th of this year.
http://picasaweb.google.com/pixiecakes/OnTheSet

And... uh oh.. one more thing before I go.

The Hancock Tower was designed by the architect I. M. Pei.
The same I. M. Pei some people guessed about back in '05 when trying to guess the clue that year.
Connections to previous years??? Ahhh!!!! My head a-splode!
Can this mean that our guesses for clues can be used in the future? :ahh:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...&postcount=561

We better be careful what we wish for in these posts from now on. :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Okay I'm new to this guys but here it is
the first two numbers in the hint as we have all concluded are GPS coordinates
but I think I found out the last number!
Go to the FIRSTwiki and search 342.24.20.26 .
Now this seems like a dead end to me because it is an account for someone who apparently lives here : http://www.ipaddresslocation.org/ip-...=75.21.123.237
And anyway You guys are probably smarter than me cause would never have found out or thought of all of these ideas:)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hey All!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

It's almost embarrasing to be posting my idea on the 30th page of this thread. Don't you people sleep? :)

Anyway, my guess is that the game will revolve around positioning squares (Copley Square reference) between obelisks (directional reference to third number).

A derivation would be that the squares are really cubes of different colors (red, blue, green, orange). Four pairs of obelisks will border goals of four colors. The trick will be autonomously place the squares in the correctly colored goals. Or, better yet, the colored squares can only be scored when the correctly colored light (or IR signal) is active.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

good call

American Gladiator meets First robotics
/*:D*/

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Ok I haven't read all of the posts here:o but I was wondering, does anyone have an idea about how this game hint ties in with the first hint:confused: after all it was our first hint.

P.S. American Gladiator Robots amazing!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

i noticed that one of the surrounding streets is Trinity Street. nice connection, i would never have thought of an ip address.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Well thank you:) but I found it by complete accident:o

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

i would just like to get this out there but what if the IR board had nothing to do with game play and instead was just a ridulosely(?) expensive hint???:eek:
-probubly not:o

but it does sound a little feaky and conspiratorial

:cool: HOORAY CONSPIRICY!!!!:cool:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Teams,

Has anyone, knowing Dave L's association with the Mars Rover program, tried mapping these coordinates on Mars?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Whoa! It's been over 20 minutes since I posted and still NO responses. Maybe all that caffine has lost it's effectiveness?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I think it was tried earlier in the thread; in fact, I'm almost positive it was.

EDIT: Here it is, from page 19:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Anyone remember the goals from MVL 07'... Counterweights...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I've just been to see "National Treasure: Book of Secrets" and thought I'd post my observations that go with the earlier speculations about a connection. If you care about having certain parts of the movie spoiled, don't read this next section.

---MINOR SPOILERS AHEAD---

The number 243 is part of the Library of Congress call number for the President's Book. This is both the main part of our third number backward, and a connection to the Library of Congress. It's also almost certainly coincidental, since it's such a small detail that I doubt the GDC could have found it online prior to the movie's release, and thus it would have nothing to do with our clue.

The more interesting connection I spotted was briefly mentioned earlier in this thread:

This goes with the discussion about the Hancock Tower and it's counterweighting system, and is a much more likely connection to the movie since it's a larger plot point and could easily have shown up on a synopsis before the movie was released.

----END SPOILERS---

I realize this is all probably entirely circumstantial, but it's very interesting, and made the movie even more fun since I was constantly looking for connections. (I'd definately recommend the movie, by the way.)

My random thoughts for the night.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hmmm..

I believe there is a protocol for geographic mapping of non-terrestrial planets that mirrors 'our' latitude/longitude corrordinate system. Has anyone tried searching the NASA site for Mars mappings?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

InfraRED..... RED planet, could be mars... don't know where i would even start in looking up a GPS coordinate on mars...

If it was Mars though, then why would they give us such specific coordinates. And what about the 3rd coordinate. I think GoogleMaps Streetview for Mars is still under development. If you take out a digit, how much broader do the coordinates then become. What about 2. Are we sure these are GPS coordinates?

Other thought... boston tea party.... they dumped what.... barrels of tea... BARRELS. Interesting game piece...

...
...
...
dot dot dot

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Well. I think we overlooked what Mrs. Beatty said with the Deli. The deli's name is Short Stop Deli which would imply there is a lot of mobility needed. In addition short stops may be hard to do with massive counterweights or huge weights period!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

If you go here: http://www.google.com/mars/

You can actually look at sites that have been named & mapped by clicking on things in the top of the map which will give you the coordinate of places, but you can't actually type in a coordinate to search it.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Here's our magic numbers inputted as lat/long coordinatea on Mars:

http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=42.3....076072&zoom=8

If you zoom out a few notches, you'll see that all those lines make up (what appears to be) one of those giant dry riverbeds on Mars.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I really don't think this applies to the game hint though. Unless its going ot be called Mars Madness or something in which robots use IR (infraRED-Red planet?) to move or collect globe shaped objects off the field (planetary object) and place them into the center. lol:p

$.02

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

And while I'm still sleepless at 3am, here's the location on the Moon. It's just south of the large crater, but nowhere near any of the Apollo mission landing locations.

http://www.google.com/moon/#lat=42.3...zoom=7&apollo=

Exactly. ;)

Game Hints are governed by the laws of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle.

We* will never know the true meaning of game hints, for if we did, the observations which we carried out to uncover the true meaning would only invariably change the actual game hint itself. Thus making it a self-defeating endeavor.

However, if we postulate about an infinite number of possibilities for the Game Hint, it will run out of things to change into that have not already been used, and will thus be correct with one of the previously mentioned theories based upon simple statistics of normal-distribution with a mean-value of "banana"**.


* Except Car Nack. The mayonnaise jar of truth does knows all.

** Though depending on the circumstance, the mean-value can also be "Jello", "water" or "inflatable clowns".

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Check Greg Needle's game guess from 2007 =]

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

So it's an EX-water game!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Does anyone else find it ironic that when you open up the link for the coordinates on mars that there is an infered option on the top. Also when it is clicked on it highlights craters nearby.

-Sam

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

going by the Mars theme some of you are talking about, what if the 42.349905 is like the distance of Mars from Earth in million miles. Based on the info. found on this site http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/que...php?number=564
you find that mars is 0.5AU (Astronomical Units) from Earth. and if you convert to million kilometers you get 75 million kilometers or roughly 46.6028394 million miles. Not knowing how accurate this site is, maybe the 42.349905 is a more precise measurement. even though the difference is like 4 million miles. :p
only 9 days left to kickoff

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

WHen I did that, it showed part of the image, with a whole bunch of thick gray lines.

My immediate thought was, "Zoom out. Maybe it's a message".

It's nothing, but I figured it would have been

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

This is off topic but has anyone noticed that the games objectives sort of rotate? ( This is just a stretch) e.g. 1995 Ramp 'n Roll 2007 Rack 'n Roll
1994 Tower Power 2003 Stack Attack

see. in 1994 towers 2003 more towers (stacking towers of game pieces)

this is the site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRST#F...cs_Competition

I also noticed that (Why didn't we think of it?!:ahh: ) there was a polygon and T-shaped field mentioned for some of the games.
Any ideas?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

If you zoom out a few notches, you'll see that all those lines make up (what appears to be) one of those giant dry riverbeds on Mars. - artdutra04
(Don't know how to quote)

The ground looks green in his pic. So maybe that's what they meant in the first clue:ahh: :confused: and seeing Montana's green heights It sorta makes sense right?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I did the exact same thing when I first saw it and then found it was nothing so I didn't mention it but I know exactly how you felt.:D

-Sam

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Not sure if anybody did this yet, but I put the first number in to yahoo search and it came up with a Bloglines search for a company called Nanosolar (www.nanosolar.com).

The search result on Bloglines returned ALL THREE numbers we were given by FIRST.

Any idea how this can go with the game? Maybe something with the IR panel?

/brian

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

It's just a stream of current blogs. The two seperate blog entries of Nanosolar's release about the $1 per kw/h of electricity it's new panel can produce & someone's totally unrelated blog about the clue just happen to be on the same page.
No connection there. Sorry.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Badger? We ain't got no Badgers... We don' need no stinkin' Badgers...
...Except that IP addresses are limited to the range 0 to 255. 342 cannot be an IP address.
Not even close.


I change my vote to squares that need to be maneuvered between obelisks.
(or is that obelisks between squares :confused: )
Don

.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

We did just have another idea:

Trinity Church is in Copley Square, and it's powered by geothermal energy. Could the last number 342.242026 be a temperature of some kind?

The conversions were in an attachment here

/brian

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

:] Yeah I think I'll go with the squares and obelisks too.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Somewhere, Dave is sitting around with his shades all :cool: at how far off we all probably are.

All these do is make my hype exponentially increase prior to build season, which isn't a bad thing :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

has anyone that went to Copley Square, taken any pictures?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

And we ALL know that "EX" marks the spot! :p

(Sorry, I had to do that for all of my students.)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

UM... all this talk about answers being too obvious...

If it was obvious, we would have it figured out!!!

(Unless we want to do Dave's Princess Bride type logic puzzle thing, in which case it is obvious that it would not be obvious but it still must be obvious enough to be labeled obvious and therefore the most likely thing is the least obvious thing that was obvious enough for us to come up with... unless it was obvious that it would be obvious that it would not be obvious, in which case it really should be obvious.)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

LOL :D :p yeah and to be honest this thread has around 30 people in it who can't figure this out! Ironic.:p

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Looking on Wikipedia, John Singleton Copley not only painted Paul Revere, he also painted "The Defeat of the Floating Batteries at Gibraltar, September 1782". I seem do remember Dave, Woody and Dean ending the kickoff last year in some floats on water? Dave was slapping the water saying something like "what can we do for next year..."

Maybe there'll be 4 mobile targets each with their own IR beacon and frequency. Different frequencies for different point values.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Ya know, all of our observations, guesses, and ideas all seem to eventually bring up water.:ahh: And if you think about it wouldn't that be a cool if there was an event for making some kind of submersible?:p It would probably cost more to do though.:( Also what, wait :ahh: I just thought of another. The first clue said something about noodles and if it is pool noodles then it could be another reference to water. If anyone thinks of another kind of water reference let me know.

(You might want to use both clues)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I can't tell you how many years my team members spend December uttering the phrase "So the question is: submarine or hovercraft?"

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Those were referencing 2006's game and the "noodle" clues, and "Montana" clues were clues released in December 2005.

Please start at the beginning of this thread, and see that our ONLY clues for the 2008 game are the release of an IR receiver board, and a series of 3 numbers, and nothing else.

Thank you.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

the ir was used in 2004. text from 2004 game manual found here :
So it could be used for autonomous instead of the grenn light and camera this year.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I just found this to I dont how many people saw it but the ir can be trained to four different command sequences meaning that it is probably going to be used like a remote control.the pdf for the ir instructions is available here

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

This is my only and final guess for 2008 game.

We started receiving the CMU cam back in 2005. Since then FIRST has motivated us to use the camera. But there are only few teams who have accomplished finishing the task using a camera. In 2008, FIRST will try to make it simple for teams to use the camera.

There will be an autonomous but it will be at the end of the game. Now let's look at the clues... and IR receiver and coordinate points (or seems like it). Every single year starting 2005 (and 2002) till now we had to go back to the home zone to receive bonus points. This upcoming season, the IR receiver will tell us what we should aim for (there may be multiple green lights just like 2007). The coordinate points refer to the home zone or certain zones that we are suppose to be at after the time runs out. If task is accomplished you receive bonus points.

... now it's time to wait till January 5th and see the real game.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

We've all seen it. Not to be mean or anything...just read the posts please =)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Yes, we noticed. (Note: reading the whole thread might not be necessary to get to this conclusion, but it would be a good idea. If you don't want to look through the whole thing, search the thread (orange bar at top of thread, top right).) And it's a receiver, not a transmitter, so it can't be used like a remote control.

Got It!
 

Either I'm missing something here, or I have cause to be sorely disappointed at the fine folks posting here! :)

Having come back, and read EVERY darned post, didn't anybody notice the infamous Dave's latest post (#48, on the page 24)? In the signature part on the bottom, it adds (and I think this is a new thing):

For the two - this season is for you.

Now, this could refer to some happy couple (or two separate individuals) who are of importance to FIRST, and who have something special going on. OR ... it might actually work with another theory I have.

Let's keep in mind, BTW, that last year's animation contest was called "Thinking Green", which was supposed to be about the environment (how that has to do with robotics, someone would have to explain to me).

I get to my theory this way. Let's assume that many of the previous posters are correct, and that if you stand at the given latitude and longitude, and look at the given bearing, that you see the "Globe Bar & Grill". I then ask you, what goes on at the Globe Bar and Grill?

My answer: "Global Warming"

Who would be "the two" in Dave's new hint? How 'bout the two recipients of that Nobel Peace Prize (again, don't ask me what GW has to do with World Peace). If the organizers are into environmentalism (which they apparently are), surely they couldn't resist commemorating the Peace Prize news. A lot of scientists are riding this "train", and would consider these guys to be heroes literally saving the world with science.

So I humbly :D suggest that this hint is trying to tell us that this year's game has a theme associated with Global Warming. The IR (from the first hint) is even heat-related.


My second favorite theory is that it points to the Tortoise and Hare sculptures, but we still haven't had a volunteer actually go there and report on EXACTLY where the coordinates point to. The "For the two" doesn't work as well for me with this one, though, since it's just a couple of statues.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Global warming is causing the polar ice caps to melt. WATER GAME!:D

Sorry couldn't help myself.

-Sam

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Time for a side tracked thought.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortoise_and_the_Hare

My new thoughts about clue #2?

We can all agree (maybe) on the fact that it is a point in Copley Square looking at the heading 342.xxxxx, and I don't believe it really matters what the numbers after the decimal point are in that last number, they are just longer than they need to be to confuse us, and/or make us think harder or even better than we need to.

I believe the second clue is just a warning about the game that will be emphasised at kickoff and beyond. Knowing the GDC, this just sounds way too much like the general thinking from them towards us as teams as I have experienced in the past.

The warning... is simple.

I've beaten this clue to death, and sometimes it's the things that are right in front of us that prove to be the most elusive to find or decode.

I'll leave out thoughts of an endgame autonomous mode, and an IR beacon on the field, but will leave with the thought that whatever our task is this year in the game, that we will have to be careful and not just go on a brute force mission to accomplish what we need to do.

Slow & Steady....


Now, this doesn't man I won't have more fun learning about Boston, and Copley Square, and the people*, and places that make up the area in question, but for a second, I believe that the Tortoise & The Hare statue give us the (simple) answer to the (not so simple) mystery we seek.


*For example, did you know that the Architect of Trinity Church (Henry Hobes Richardson) who has indeed left his legacy in the field of Architecture from Boston MA, to Hartford CT, to Chicago IL, has his own homestead in jeopardy of being demolished, and that it is on the National Trust's Top 11 most Endangered places? I didn't know that. I didn't even know who he was, let alone that he led to the Richardson Romanesque style of Architecture here in the US. Very cool indeed.

Very cool stuff is to be found in the area of the Clue coordinates, you just have to look.

I'm putting Copley Square on my agenda of places to visit the next time I am in Boston.

Thank you for that GDC! If for nothing else than adding another place to my agenda to visit to learn just a little more about the past as you are busy creating the future! :)

-elgin




.



Oh, and btw... if that's not enough to satisfy your clue searching tendancies folks, check out THIS more complex & math related connection to The Tortoise & The Hare.

Let the games continue. :D


Only 9 more days till we know for sure...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Thank you, Elgin.:) Yeah I must of found the wrong "game hint" thread
before I joined.:o Darn and I've been giving myself headaches over that clue!:ahh: :o

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Well, having been to Copley and seen nothing of importance, here are some more ideas to throw into the heap:

Assuming (of course!) that the first two numbers indicate an Earth position, and that position is in the middle of a brick plaza at Copley Square, it seems to me it's the playing field of the game, and that coordinates (of some sort) play a factor in the game.

Copley Square, and the whole of Back Bay, is not on a north-south grid, but (as carefully as I can do it capturing a google map and drawing a line on it using PaintShop Pro), is approximately 342.242026 degrees counterclockwise from North. I suppose my next trip to Copley I could bring some surveying equipment there and check my measurements?

Remember last years clue, with the photo of the "5" on the metal circle? There wasn't five anythings in the game -- not even five robots vs one. The "5" was simply the number on the rack that faced the audience. The clue numbers may not mean anything by itself, just that coordinates play a factor in the game. And maybe that the game is called "Copley Squares". (Copy Squares? Copling Squares? I really am not good at naming FIRST games.)

The infrared board clue may or may not have anything to do with coordinates. It seems to me that it is part of the game, and I'm guessing a part on the robot. I'm sure the number crunchers at FedEx were grinding their teeth -- what do you mean, ship a thousand packages right before Christmas?

One thought from our team -- you got 40-50 teams with tv remotes testing their robots in the Pits. Who knows how many more tv remotes in the stands. And six robots on the field receiving all these signals. The first week of competitions is going to be -- interesting. Our robot last year was chasing green light reflections off the side walls of the field in autonomous; something (as I heard it) they didn't think of. Now we have to figure out how to ignore random IR signals? I hope they've got an answer to this one.

The Tortoise and the Hare could play a part -- the statues are in the direction of 342.242026 degrees.

While I'm not trying to dissuade you, Copley Square isn't high on my list. I'll grant you the architecture is interesting and varied and worth a visit, but I guess I'm a little jaded after commuting thru there for so many years.

If you want to see Boston from up high, the Prudential Tower is still open; the Hancock tower closed after 9/11 and there is some politics about not re-opening.

The Hancock tower was called the plywood tower after it was built and all the windows kept falling out. It's safer now.

Do not even try to visit there on Marathon Day, unless you go via Hopkinton ;) . The whole area is closed as that is where the runners go after they finish in front of the Boston Public Library. The finish line is on Boylston between the old and new BPL buildings.

Back Bay station is an Amtrak station and the last stop before South Station. There is also commuter rail and the Orange Line. The Green Line runs under Boylston Street to the 342.242026 bearing.

Copley is also a Boston First Night (new years eve) area. In years past they've had ice sculptures.

There was a movie (durn if I remember which one) that had an explosion at the corner of Boylston and Dartmouth Streets. I had to dodge all the movie equipment walking to Copley Station on the Green Line.

Back Bay is named because it was the literally the back bay of Boston, actually tidal flats, before the Charles River was dammed and the hills of Boston were pushed into all the bays. Before Boston was on the Shawmut Peninsula and when the wind was blowing the wrong way yoiu didn't want to be there. The North/South streets are named alphabetically and I still don't know which street is which. Newbury Street is where all the ritzy shops are.

And, last but not least, if you come to the Boston competition via the subway, it's on the "B" line of the Green Line trolley (subway), and get off at Pleasant Street. My office is right opposite the Agganis Arena. And then you'll know why I drive to work instead. :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

those numbers are field dimensions
or frequencys

just throwin it out there

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

maybe there was a typo andit should have been

Greeting Teams:

42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026
they could be new unheard of teams :D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Yeah i'm no good at names for these games either, but what about Coupling Squares?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

At least other people are speculating about a water based game, a group of us have been having the feeling that this year would be a water based game for two reasons

1. The brand new battery we used last year is waterproof, we may need to use it again this year

2. At the end of last year's kickoff, if you recall, Dave, Woodie, and Dean were all floating on the ringers on water, and they said "I can't imagine what we can be doing next year".....

Thats all i got

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

If that's the case, the Michigan teams should do very well--the orange barrel is our state tree:D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I believe it was EricH who stated it best...
"At first, "water game" was funny. Then it went to silly. Now it's just dumb. Not to mention unrealistic for FIRST."

Re: Got It!
 

I missed that...but with 4 channels for the IR, could it point to a revert back to 2-team alliances? There was discussion re: fixing the alliance-choosing method....:rolleyes:

Re: Got It!
 

I agree it probably has teams of two or three. Wouldn't it be cool with three or four teams playing?:)